Music evolving through the years

[delicti]

Originally Posted by LadyStardust

And one other question (though not the last, I'm sure): Was the term 'shock metal' used as extensively pre-Manson? I must admit, I'd never heard the term at all until Manson came along.

Well, I think shock-metal is just a term to deride Manson. Shock rock has been around since Screamin' Jay Hawkins, but to call Manson shock rock would be an insult to legitimate shock artists.

Conversely, while Manson does do metal, its over simplification that he presents is would be an insult to metal artists to leave it just at Metal.

Hence, shock-metal, a fictitious genre, with no real talent in either direction, whose only performing artist is M. Manson.

[LadyStardust]

Originally Posted by delicti

I would argue against it being satire, because if it were so, then at least some people would get the joke. Even Andy Kaufmann, with his bizarre humor styling, did satire correctly. If Manson's image is satire, it is perhaps the worst attempt at it in entertainment history.

That is entirely possible. I do have the bad habit of giving people more credit than they deserve. I'd much rather believe that his over-the-top style is deliberately so, and not sheer stupidity.

[LadyStardust]

Originally Posted by delicti

Well, I think shock-metal is just a term to deride Manson. Shock rock has been around since Screamin' Jay Hawkins, but to call Manson shock rock would be an insult to legitimate shock artists.

Conversely, while Manson does do metal, its over simplification that he presents is would be an insult to metal artists to leave it just at Metal.

Hence, shock-metal, a fictitious genre, with no real talent in either direction, whose only performing artist is M. Manson.

And what characterises 'shock rock'?

[delicti]

Originally Posted by LadyStardust

That is entirely possible. I do have the bad habit of giving people more credit than they deserve. I'd much rather believe that his over-the-top style is deliberately so, and not sheer stupidity.

It's certainly deliberate, but he came out saying "goth" this and that at a time when goth was dominated by Sisters clones, and the fashion was very renaissance inspired.

That is to say, there was no reasonable comparison that could be made between him and Goth at the time, hence the satire fails as such.

[delicti]

Originally Posted by LadyStardust

And what characterises 'shock rock'?

Essentially it has more to do with stage show, and a little to do with public persona. Hawkins was equally both, with Alice Cooper was more stage show. The musical qualities have more to do with whatever rock was at the time, as there is very little in way of comparison between Hawkins and Cooper musically.

Most of Manson's stage tricks were completely ripped off by Iggy Pop when Manson was starting, and since then the closest to shocking he's come is in album art and videos. Even then, the art he chooses for his albums are closer to Geiger, later glam, and who knows what now? (I don't follow him) Actually, in the beginning you could even say he looked like a morbid Red Hot Chili Peppers.

So if people are shocked by Manson, then you could reasonably argue that they simply don't know a whole lot about rock and roll, not that Manson himself is that shocking a character.