Goth VS. Poser

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by BlackWidow

Definition of a poser=an emo.

Err.... not really.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

It can be, at given times, difficult to see the difference between the emo "scene" and regular emo poseurs. A common misconception of emo will be some kid from middle or high school dressing in black or solid colours with hair brushed down and banged-up sneakers who likes to hang out in the mall and talk about how hot Gerard Way is. When truthfully those are the obviously pointed out "scene kids", though a stereotype it's a rip-off look from the emo scene. Thus, poseur emos are often considered "scene kids" not emos in general.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I for one, will sit back in my faded black jeans and calmly smoke my cloves all the while, laughing at what "goth" has become.

The mainstream never gets it right and why the fuck would we want it any other way?

Well I, for one, wonder what it is that makes you think your faded jeans and sickly-sweet cigarettes make you anything other than a pretentious ass in old pants smoking a clove. Unless, of course, those jeans are pre-faded. Then you'd be an even more pretentious ass in NEW pants.

It sounds to me like you're more interested in bucking the "mainstream" for the sake of being an oddball rather than any real aesthetic appreciation.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Again, I say that a babybat will learn and become a great member of the culture or they'll simply fade away back into their compartmentalized life.

I totally agree. Stupid norms, conforming to their templates and stereotypes. Not like, say, sitting back and delicately smoking your Djarum Gold while you laugh at the newbies and go on at length about how their pain will never be as deep as yours. That doesn't fit nicely into a compartment. Nope.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Goth will always be misunderstood and people with completely wrong ideas on its sound will claim goth.

I hope so, for your sake at least. I'd hate see you deprived of chances to haughtily scoff at all those lesser peoples out there. You know, the groups who "just don't get it, and never will?"


This sort of attitude is why people laugh at "goths." Yes, there are a great many narrow minded fellows out there who blindly hate all that is different, but xenophobia is by no means the only reason that goth is an ostracized subculture. Arrogance alienates people, plain and simple. I see little difference between the Abercrombie crowd looking down their noses at someone for wearing the wrong brand of jeans and a goth blowing smoke (literally and figuratively) at a newcomer because they don't listen to the same bands or some other equally trivial trespass.

[maggot]

Because they don't smoke Djarums!

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Actually, I made a mistake. I should've said Djarum Black, not Gold.

[maggot]

I know. I decided not to say anything. :P

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

But they have a gold band on them! Do I get points for that? I mean, I can't smoke the things but, still, I'm cool! I swear!

[maggot]

Well, okay. I'll give you that.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Excellent. That's one more bead on the "Cool" side of my abacus. Click.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

Well I, for one, wonder what it is that makes you think your faded jeans and sickly-sweet cigarettes make you anything other than a pretentious ass in old pants smoking a clove. Unless, of course, those jeans are pre-faded. Then you'd be an even more pretentious ass in NEW pants.

It sounds to me like you're more interested in bucking the "mainstream" for the sake of being an oddball rather than any real aesthetic appreciation.








I totally agree. Stupid norms, conforming to their templates and stereotypes. Not like, say, sitting back and delicately smoking your Djarum Gold while you laugh at the newbies and go on at length about how their pain will never be as deep as yours. That doesn't fit nicely into a compartment. Nope.



I hope so, for your sake at least. I'd hate see you deprived of chances to haughtily scoff at all those lesser peoples out there. You know, the groups who "just don't get it, and never will?"


This sort of attitude is why people laugh at "goths." Yes, there are a great many narrow minded fellows out there who blindly hate all that is different, but xenophobia is by no means the only reason that goth is an ostracized subculture. Arrogance alienates people, plain and simple. I see little difference between the Abercrombie crowd looking down their noses at someone for wearing the wrong brand of jeans and a goth blowing smoke (literally and figuratively) at a newcomer because they don't listen to the same bands or some other equally trivial trespass.

YAY! My first flame! I have been served in every way. Hell, even I need to be humbled sometimes. So I shall leave it at this. If goth is headed in that direction, I will still continue being so. But hey, maybe I just don't like the new trends being set forth. You're right though. I'm very pretentious indeed. I need to work on that.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

LAWL! Long live addmitted pretentiousness! And I hope you all seek the irony in this post. Hey, you're an elder goth, eh? NICCEEYYY

[KontanKarite]

I never claimed to be perfect. Forgive me, everyone.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Easily we can do that. Heh.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

This sort of attitude is why people laugh at "goths." Yes, there are a great many narrow minded fellows out there who blindly hate all that is different, but xenophobia is by no means the only reason that goth is an ostracized subculture. Arrogance alienates people, plain and simple. I see little difference between the Abercrombie crowd looking down their noses at someone for wearing the wrong brand of jeans and a goth blowing smoke (literally and figuratively) at a newcomer because they don't listen to the same bands or some other equally trivial trespass.

This, I would like to clarify on though because at this point, I think you're eluding to something you may have the wrong idea on, at least on my behalf. I can assume this IS a general statement, but nevertheless, I am the one that inspired such a response.

I haven't, to my knowledge, ever done this. At least in real life and probably not in a full blown way here. But I will acknowledge to myself, that I don't share the same tastes as others who consider themselves as goths. I will leave examples of what I find to be goth and if they don't like it, then they don't like it. At the same time, I can say that I haven't been overtly mean to people who are and aren't goth though.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

I can't say that I know you, so perhaps that was a bit of an overreaction on my part. Still, I just went with what I saw, accurate or not.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

I can't say that I know you, so perhaps that was a bit of an overreaction on my part. Still, I just went with what I saw, accurate or not.

You're right. I DID indeed paint an ugly picture for you. I again, apologize for offending you. I'm really not this bad in real life, I assure.

[nouvellevogue]

I think goth is something that is easier to identify what it isn't rather than what it is.

And even then it's a challenge.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Not offended, really. I'm just quick to leap into the fray. I'm not going to say that I approve of how you presented your attitude, but, then again, it's not my place to approve others. I just saw an opportunity to voice my opinion on the subject. A lot of that was my distaste for a particular attitude that, rightly or no, your post seemed to convey.

[raggedyanne]

Originally Posted by nouvellevogue

I think goth is something that is easier to identify what it isn't rather than what it is.

Perfect. At least somebody gets it. We can all try, but in the end we all fall to complaining.

[mrs.wes straker]

(Slighty irrelevant): I'm a fan of a poseur. My favorite poseur of all time is Rick from the Young Ones.

[DarkGentleman]

Originally Posted by alshio

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?i...fybunnyyu8.jpg

...otherwise they are just conforming to non-conformity

ROFLMAO, that was priceless, whooooo, (wiping away the laughed up tears). Too cute I must say.

[Draygorn]

I've always felt that being Goth was more a state of mind than anything else. I think, if you look at it that way, that's what separates a truly Goth person from the poser.

[BlackWidow]

Originally Posted by Vyvian Blackthorne

It can be, at given times, difficult to see the difference between the emo "scene" and regular emo poseurs. A common misconception of emo will be some kid from middle or high school dressing in black or solid colours with hair brushed down and banged-up sneakers who likes to hang out in the mall and talk about how hot Gerard Way is. When truthfully those are the obviously pointed out "scene kids", though a stereotype it's a rip-off look from the emo scene. Thus, poseur emos are often considered "scene kids" not emos in general.

This was the kind of "emo" I was reffering. Sorry for the confusion, calm down.

[raggedyanne]

I think emo music is okay, and emo kids are huggable in all their emo-ness, but it bothers me to have to keep explaining the difference between Goth and emo. I should make flashcards.

[Emerald]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

The meaning of goth is hard for people to nail down because knowledge from the first-generation of subcultures is often lost in the confusion. Some people think punk is about rebelling or vandalism, some people think metal is about Satan-worship and hate, and some people thing goth is about moping around and vampires. The confusion here is no different than in any subculture. The truth is that one must have a liking for gothic music in order to be goth. It just makes fucking sense. Everything else is just icing on the black cake. I'm with Jillian and Lykaios on this one.

I agree. The aesthetic stylings of Goth along with the artistic sentiments and "mindset" is but one part of Goth. I don't believe that any of these things actually defines what it means to be Goth, yes they are an important part of the culture but this originally was a musical subculture, everything stemmed from that. If Goth music had never developed Goth would not exist today in any form, it was the music (and the influences on the music and the bands that were playing it) which gave rise to the fashion, looks, artistry etc of Goth.

I've actually posted a short video on YouTube to try and explain to the spooky kids mall goths, and all round doesn't have a clue type people, exactly what Goth is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leSEL3DtIhg

Obviously some of this has been exaggerated to make a point, I mean I chose pictures that were so completely opposite of the stereotyped view of Goth in order to make the point that you can't point to a person and say "she is wearing black lace and lace up boots therefore she is Goth" and then point to someone else and say "they are wearing blue jeans and a sweat shirt so therefore they absolutely cannot be Goth". The girl you think is "Goth" might just like the style of the clothing but not have any other interest in it whatsoeever and the person wearing the jeans and sweat shirt could be an old school Goth who only really "goths up" for the weekend, nightime or going out to a club. As I said in one of my responses to a comment, if I am wearing my Goth clothes one day and then jeans and a t-shirt the next does that mean for that day I have suddenly ceased to be Goth? I don't think so, because in my opinion a true love and passion for the music is the defining force of Goth.