This stuff drives me nuts.

Rosie · 09-16-2007, 11:47 AM

http://www.theforumsite.com/forum/to...-Album-/152834

http://www.theforumsite.com/forum/to...NE-READ/165567

Argh! Dumb kids thinking their "opinion" of what's gothic is anything more than misinformation fed to them by the mass media.

Lapin · 09-16-2007, 01:55 PM

Wow. They were irritating. That AlexKidd especially.

Rosie · 09-16-2007, 02:11 PM

What sucks is that he's my best friend IRL. I had a big albeit slightly more civil argument with him off forums.

The fact is that there's nowhere really to talk about goth music anymore. This forum is pretty dead and goth.net too(aside from it being a bit elitist, at least you could still find out about real goth music there).

And it's because of that way of thinking. Because people aren't sectioning off genres like they used to, it's harder to find people to talk to that are interested in the same bands I am.

LadyLucretia · 09-16-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosie

The fact is that there's nowhere really to talk about goth music anymore.

I'm assuming you mean on the internet? Because I talk about goth music at the club, at live shows, at record stores, at my friends houses, etc. Then again I live with a DJ/record collector and many of my friends are collectors. But yeah, if you're looking to talk bands online, deathrock forums tend to be more music focused, though people can be pretty jaded and sometimes aggressive.

Rosie · 09-17-2007, 04:45 AM

There are no goth clubs in Ireland, and barely any live shows. Plus I don't have the confidence to go up to random people at a show, since I'm trans I'd just scare them off. Just one ridiculously small and generally overpacked one.

Rosie · 09-19-2007, 03:49 PM

There's nothing I hate more than these annoying kids who actually take time out of their day to post in your topic telling you how little they care about it.

Fucking hell.

KontanKarite · 09-19-2007, 06:39 PM

Wow...

Just... wow. It's sad to see that kind of stuff.

I think the real question that should be asked is not what goth is, but:

WHY do people WANT to use the word goth for groups such as HIM, Manson, ect? Would it have really made a difference if they were called something else? Would Manson and Co. really have as many fans. WTF is up with this fucking word, "goth"?

Man... mother FUCK that word. Fuck Goth. I'm post punk, bitches. There aint NOTHIN' attractive about the words post punk.

Underwater Ophelia · 09-19-2007, 06:45 PM

If this kind of thing gets you guys all upset, I feel sorry for you.

Seriously, you need to learn to just let things go. This does not affect you AT ALL.

KontanKarite · 09-19-2007, 06:48 PM

WE TRY SO HARD, Ophie!!

Rosie · 09-20-2007, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

If this kind of thing gets you guys all upset, I feel sorry for you.

Seriously, you need to learn to just let things go. This does not affect you AT ALL.

Uh, yes it does. It means that the popularity and credit that should be assigned to "real" goth bands ends up going to Marilyn Manson and co. - look at how popular that is in comparison.

It's the single biggest thing hurting the scene and various sub scenes at the moment. It's recognition is being stolen because of dumbass kids who think "their" vision of gothic is anything but misinformation.

Seriously, do you even think before saying things like that? Or just how mature it would make you feel to talk about "Letting things go?". Everyone ALWAYS lets things go. Most people are apathetic. I'm not about to become "Most People".

viscus · 09-20-2007, 10:08 AM

It is pretty annoying to come to a place expecting to discuss Bauhaus, Siouxsie, etc. and run into hordes of Manson, Cradle of Filth, and Combichrist fans.

I guess it's just a sign of the times, but what people are increasingly failing to grasp is that a goth is a fan of goth rock, with the fashion, film, and literature all being secondary. All of this "lifestyle," "state of mind," and "what you make it" talk is nonsense.

Rizash · 09-21-2007, 12:38 AM

Sticks and stones.... WTF is with all the bickering over titles? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet people.... Gothic music is alive and well, yes.... But the TRUE gothic music will never be as big as the collective genres of elektro industrial("future pop" darkwave, etc..) and gothic.... Let people call stuff what they call it.... Anyone who wants to call manson, etc... goth is just a poser or under-informed.... I dont really care what people call what I listen to... I dont try to fit into the goth "scene" (not that that actually exists) I just want to find people that are into SOMEWHAT the same music as I am but introduce me to new stuff (hell -- combichrist, VNV Nation, Rotersand, Cradfle of Filth, etc... are all electro music that does have some goth connotations and in some sense is part of the evolution of it -- like it or not) bottom line is this music may not BE gothic... but it IS influenced by it... as are the people who listen to it.... People are posers when it comes to names/"scenes" and those who try the hardest to fit in will only be fitting into a scene that really doesnt exist..... Dont deny that their music has gothic influence.... Dont be pissed off at me for saying darkwave is gothic music.... I *HATE* most country.... but you could be particular enough that you would try to pick apart the word country "no you hate POP country" or "you hate bluegrass country" or whatever the heck sub-genres there are (clueless) I hate MOST country is the proper answer.... As far as what gothic is?? More than one band... less then every band.... and no definition defines it.... Thank god we live in the day of the internet and we can have a sub-genre for every band if we like (and people like me will stretch them to fit everything we listen to). At any rate... just correct people if they're blatently wrong about genres.... if they're stubborn they're not worth arguing with.... Its a stupid WORD.... Its worth EXACTLY the ammount of time it takes you to type it... at most....

FYI I listen to Darkwave/Industrial/Elektro/Industrial/Alternative/Goth/WHATEVER I WANT so quit bringing this up every two days.... Listen to what you like, describe it how you like, and if someone calls music some genre it isnt... ask them what ELEMENTS of that song/music are from that genre.... every song is different so no song is TRULY "goth" etc....

End rant

-Riz

PS: I listen to *MUSIC* (and the sounds my over-used Razer Tarantula keyboard makes)

Beneath the Shadows · 09-21-2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

WHY do people WANT to use the word goth for groups such as HIM, Manson, ect? Would it have really made a difference if they were called something else? Would Manson and Co. really have as many fans. WTF is up with this fucking word, "goth"?

Smear campaign, man! Smear campaign!

Or not.

obscurite_beautee · 09-21-2007, 10:12 AM

Wow...looks like a label war here...To be honest, in my opinion, people can talk shit even if it aren't true....As long as there are people like you and I in here that knows the true music...then Why should we let it affect us? And besides, I would prefer underground than signed big bands because they are more raw and more true to themselves....Once they go famous, they become like the rest of mainstream fucks such as Marilyn Manson and so on....Very very very few bands aren't but I wouldn't keep my hopes too high....THey only get that way because they have so much money and its a dream come true then they start wasting the money and products they buy....its a red flag for more pile of trash and causing the world pollution...wow I should just stop here....

By the way, Marilyn Manson's latest album SUCKS BIG FAT HAIRY MONKEY"S BALLS!

Miss_Nobody · 09-21-2007, 06:27 PM

They pissed me off, but at least the user Rozenkatze tried to put them in their place.

LadyLucretia · 09-21-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obscurite_beautee

Why should we let it affect us?

From a promoter's standpoint:

We get kids coming to the club almost every week who buy into the Manson/Slipknot/Korn misconception of goth. They request these bands. Our DJs politely turn them down over and over. Eventually, they either start liking goth music, or more likely they get tired of hearing stuff that's not metal and they go to other clubs.

What other clubs? Well, there are a number of them in the area that claim to cater to goths, but actually play a mix of EBM/techno and Top 40 numetal. But because there are enough misinformed suburbanites who buy into this fake version of goth, these nights get attendance in the hundreds. People then say, "Why don't you do what these nights do?" The club management starts wondering why all these other so-called "goth" nights are raking in the bucks while our attendance is just small but devoted music fans. I have had club managers ask us to play numetal, or have more of a fetish theme, or otherwise do off-format things that other nights do to get numbers up.

It creates a whole false expectation of what goth is, which then creates a market to exploit this fake image. This is the market my night ends up wrongly competing against. THIS is why it affects me. I guess those who don't promote events or care about the club/live show scene are entitled to not give a shit.

gothicusmaximus · 09-21-2007, 11:58 PM

Though his music is thoroughly shitty in my personal opinion, you've got to give Marilyn Manson props for managing to bed Evan Rachel Wood even though he's twice her age and regularly wears contacts which cause his irises and pupils to appear asymmetrically sized.

JCC · 09-22-2007, 02:50 AM

Grow the fuck up. They're kids enjoying music, if they mis-label it then why should you care anyway? People aren't naturally ecstatic when they see a Goth walking down the street, so if these kids disowned Marilyn Manson, what fucking difference would it make? I hate that, I hate it I hate it. I tell people when they say Bring Me The Horizon are metal that they're not, but I don't cry internet tears every time it happens.

††BlackRose†† · 09-22-2007, 07:15 AM

Wow... it seems as if rozenkatze is the only one trying so hard to set things straight. I think it might be a "gothic" forum for people experimenting the gothic sub-culture. I think that everyone people in their early shouldn't label themselves, since they might just be new to everything. I suppose when they get older they will begin to mature and understand it more.

May ignorance come to an end.

KontanKarite · 09-22-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

From a promoter's standpoint:

We get kids coming to the club almost every week who buy into the Manson/Slipknot/Korn misconception of goth. They request these bands. Our DJs politely turn them down over and over. Eventually, they either start liking goth music, or more likely they get tired of hearing stuff that's not metal and they go to other clubs.

What other clubs? Well, there are a number of them in the area that claim to cater to goths, but actually play a mix of EBM/techno and Top 40 numetal. But because there are enough misinformed suburbanites who buy into this fake version of goth, these nights get attendance in the hundreds. People then say, "Why don't you do what these nights do?" The club management starts wondering why all these other so-called "goth" nights are raking in the bucks while our attendance is just small but devoted music fans. I have had club managers ask us to play numetal, or have more of a fetish theme, or otherwise do off-format things that other nights do to get numbers up.

It creates a whole false expectation of what goth is, which then creates a market to exploit this fake image. This is the market my night ends up wrongly competing against. THIS is why it affects me. I guess those who don't promote events or care about the club/live show scene are entitled to not give a shit.

Jesus Christ, no shit. Granted, the "goth" night I help promote on the street team I'm on is more of a mixed bag with EBM, Futurepop, Industrial, Coldwave, Darkwave, and some Deathrock. But I'd rather these be playing and be a bit more authentic than hearing KoRn and NIN blasting over the sound system.

thedoll · 09-22-2007, 04:44 PM

I like Marilyn Manson's covers, and Evanessence first album.

Go ahead and say I lose goth points, but it's so irritating to hear them flamed all the time. Didn't we establish that goths listen to different music? I also have a friend who loves the new Britney Spears song, but she still loves bahaus and what not...

Rosie · 11-03-2007, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

Grow the fuck up. They're kids enjoying music, if they mis-label it then why should you care anyway?

A couple of us have already made some very good points about that. If you're not going to bother taking those into account, then don't reply.

Underwater Ophelia · 11-03-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosie

A couple of us have already made some very good points about that. If you're not going to bother taking those into account, then don't reply.

I think the point is that there's really nothing anyone can do about it, so why get upset?