Your thoughts on hawthorne heights

[viscus]

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

Pop refers to music that is popular, not music that is catchy or melodic. Pop is *usually* catchy and melodic,yes, but not always. The Ramones, Bad Religion, Buzzcocks, etc. were not popular for the majority of their careers. Ask a pop music aficionado about these bands, and if you are lucky they will name you one Ramones song. It is only in the past 5-10 years that these bands have been at all absorbed into pop culture. Perhaps that helped create a market for pop punk, because punk was old enough to be tame and marketable, but to call those bands themselves "pop" is not accurate.

I understand your argument - sure the Ramones were influenced by 50's rock and roll (i.e. pop), and bands like the Cramps were influenced by Elvis (as pop as it gets), but influences do not define a band, nor does melodic structure.

If you have any articles/interviews/books etc. that support your position I'd be interested in reading them, but if it's just a personal theory of yours then it goes against established music history.

No, pop isn't necessarily popular or mainstream, because there is a such thing as indie pop. The term refers to music with catchy melodies and a simple, repetitive song structure.

You can check the allmusic guide if you like.

[Green.Lady]

"Punk-Pop is a post-grunge strand of alternative rock that combines power-pop melodies and chord changes with speedy punk tempos and loud guitars. Green Day and Weezer were the first bands to popularize this variation of alternative rock in 1994, though there were several groups to play this style before either group and there were many artists that followed their stylistic blueprint after their success."
(from allmusic)


"The first punk bands to come out of Manchester, Buzzcocks formed in early 1975 after witnessing a Sex Pistols performance in London. Shelley and Devoto brought the Pistols to come play in Manchester, in June 1976. Buzzcocks intended to open for the Pistols, but couldn’t finalize a lineup in time. They did eventually open for the Pistols, when they returned to Manchester a month later.

Their style was fast and frantic, yet they have maintained a bit of pop influence as well. It's these pop overtones that lead them to be a primary influence of today's pop punk bands, most notably Green Day."
(punkmusic.about.com)

"Pop punk's revival can be traced to 1988, with the establishment of Lookout! Records. Based in California, the label was releasing music that went against the California hardcore punk that was predominant on the scene at the time.

With bands like Screeching Weasel and some young kids by the name of Green Day, the label was systematically producing and releasing pop punk records. Like pop music, the sound was infectious."
(also punkmusic.about.com)

"How perfect are the Ramones? A blend of 60's teen melodicism, 70's wall of Marshals souped up heavy metal power and punk speed, brevity and attack all combined with a glorious pop sensibility."
(punk77.co.uk)

LadyLucretia, a wikipedia search of the term and exploring the page's many references is how I came to my conclusion.

The bands I listed are punk, but I was merely saying that they can be also classified as pop-punk. This does not mean they are pop bands a la Backstreet Boys. We seem to have different opinions about what pop is. I see pop as more of an adjective that can be added on to multiple genres to create many different sounds - Baroque Pop, Indie Pop, Synthpop, etc. I also see it as a word to describe popular music, as you do, but I prefer to be more specific - Elvis may have been popular, but his genre is rockabilly to me, not pop.

I'm not sure how to convince you that this is true since you are dead-set against bands being classified by structure and influences. I'm not sure what you think defines a band, if not those. I guess we must agree to disagree.

[Green.Lady]

Ah, viscus beat me to it while I was typing!

[Mr. D.]

Tidy little pidgeon holes for every taste. Lables and titles. Drama and more.

HOORAH!!!

[maggot]

Originally Posted by maggot

I think he means 'real' emo. You know, like Rites of Spring.

Tell me that isn't hardcore.




And just for the record, there is a distinction between hardcore and hardcore punk.

Sick of It All and stuff like that, which is some guy yelling about politics over a guitar is different from stuff like the Dead Kennedys and the Circle Jerks which would be hardcore punk.

Oh well okay then.

I don't realy care that much :"D

[Godslayer Jillian]

Just for the record, my personal opinion of the Ramones is that they blow. They're only 'punk' because of their sound, but in no way are they close to the Pistols or the Clash. There's no attitude.
It's like comparing HIM to ASF.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

Everybody has a personal opinion on music, and I respect that. I just really mad when people get things confused and or wrong about a subject. There ya go.

[electrosexual]

Why even bother anyway? Music is music. What the fuck does it matter what genre it falls into? Real music lovers shouldn't even care. It just turns into nitpicking when you start talking about PostHardcoreNewWaveBLAHH.

[WarumonoLady]

The song "Ohio is For Lovers" has completely ruined Ohio for me. When he goes "CAUSE MY HEART IS IN OHIOOOOOOO~!!!" his voice ....cracks, I guess you could say, and it makes me want to slam my head against the nearest table.

But I have found that singing "BLACK MY WRISTS AND CUT MY EYES!!!" really, really upsets HH fans.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by electrosexual

Why even bother anyway? Music is music. What the fuck does it matter what genre it falls into?

Because many of us observe the objective characteristics of music we listen to, and like to have words that others might understand to describe the kind of music that we like.

Originally Posted by electrosexual

Real music lovers shouldn't even care.

Why not? And what is a "real music lover?" Someone too obtuse to notice the differences between styles of music?

Originally Posted by electrosexual

It just turns into nitpicking when you start talking about PostHardcoreNewWaveBLAHH.

Okay, I don't know where the hell you got "PostHardcoreNewWaveBLAHH" from.

[Draconysius]

I agree with viscus. Music genres help expose people to new music. There's a LOT of music out there, so using a genre to narrow it down makes the process a lot faster.