Town and Turret: The Tale of Castle Gothica

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

THANK YOU for the critique!

Would you please give me an example about how I overdid the modifiers and adverbs?
Thanks!

Just to substantiate my above statement.

[blackwater1110]

I hate to have to disagree with L'Oiseau Noir again, as I reserve my respect for those few such as she that can write competently, but my opinion differs regarding a few aspects of your writing that she addressed:

1. Your novel, as I understand it, has a Victorian motif running through it. As such, the cultured, loquacious, and witty banter feels right at home for me. From my experiences acting, I can say that having lines that fit together adds an element that having more "realistic" dialog can't attain.

2. While this section is a bit of a run on:
"Crimson Von Paine demonstrated her latest martial arts kick on a hapless floor lamp, sending it down and spinning across the floor with such force the light bulb exploded and the lamp shade spun high into the air, landing on her father's head!"
it makes sense as such, because it is describing a single action. For me as a reader, it is more distracting to read shorter, choppier sentences than a single longer one, because my attention is already focused on what is going on with the lamp, especially given that the rising action comes to a comedic effect at the end of the sentence. That said, there are a few things Blackbird's translation offers that weren't made explicit:
-substituting the verb "reeling" for "sending down and spinning" is superb, because not only is it more concise, but also more graphic for the reader. Always search for a way to say something better with fewer words.
-Specific over vague: saying "throwing her foot into" or "pivoting and thrusting her heel into" the lamp is much better than saying "using her latest martial arts kick on." Don't tell the reader she knows martial arts, make the reader surmise that based on the characters actions. Better to include one of Blackbird's revisions instead of the martial arts phrase, and save that detail for the introduction of this character to Renatus that follows. My revision of that paragraph would be as follows:

Crimson Von Paine pivoted on her left heel and rose her leg, thrusting the ball of her foot into a hapless floor lamp, which sent it reeling across the floor with such force that the light bulb exploded and the lamp shade spun high into the air, landing on her father's head!

As for the other paragraph, I like Blackbird's revision for the most part, but I did of course have my gripes:

-she switched the order of the last sentence. This is a stylistic choice, but I think the sentence carries more weight with the reader if you end on the dispersal of Duane's dream. You'll have to play with that sentence, however, as the word "then" throws the reader off-- it sounds like you are following a cooking recipe, not describing an organic human interaction.
-In Oiseau's version, she says that Duane dreams of her hand. Omit what Duane is dreaming about, and leave it to the reader to fill in the blank.
-I like the original formulation of the hand-patting and grasping sentence. The subject is hands, and by including both of their actions in the same sentence it emphasizes that the feelings are reciprocal.
-I'm not content with either formulation of the smiling phrase that follows. Yours uses a simile that plainly states what the smile is like; Oiseau's calls it a 'friendly' smile that 'creeps' on to their faces. Is this is intended to be a somewhat intimate moment, then a creeping friendly smile, to me, doesn't demonstrate the level of intimacy of 'dear friends.' You must think of a phrase that says, "these two are sharing genuine caring to each other as dear friends,", without saying it directly. I'm too lazy to think of something myself, so I'll leave that challenge up to your more than capable imagination.
-either cut the phrase "hidden so deep" in Oiseau's rewrite, or include the detail about not even revealing it to himself; otherwise this is just repetition.

I find you to be an excellent writer. I'm personally rather horrible at it, but my writing friends come to me to critique their work because I've got the principles down. I thought you ought to know where the criticism was coming from.

One other word of advice: You can submit a piece of writing to 100 different critics, and they will give you back 100 completely different revised versions of your work. Remember that ultimately, you are the sole judge of what is right and wrong with your style of writing, and if you really like the way something is written, keep it that way. You can't please everybody, especially when they're critics.

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by blackwater1110

-I'm not content with either formulation of the smiling phrase that follows. Yours uses a simile that plainly states what the smile is like; Oiseau's calls it a 'friendly' smile that 'creeps' on to their faces. Is this is intended to be a somewhat intimate moment, then a creeping friendly smile, to me, doesn't demonstrate the level of intimacy of 'dear friends.' You must think of a phrase that says, "these two are sharing genuine caring to each other as dear friends,", without saying it directly. I'm too lazy to think of something myself, so I'll leave that challenge up to your more than capable imagination.
-either cut the phrase "hidden so deep" in Oiseau's rewrite, or include the detail about not even revealing it to himself; otherwise this is just repetition.

Valid points, but I was just offering him suggestions.

I just wanted to clarify one specific thing you mentioned in your post:

I'm not content with either formulation of the smiling phrase that follows. Yours uses a simile that plainly states what the smile is like; Oiseau's calls it a 'friendly' smile that 'creeps' on to their faces. Is this is intended to be a somewhat intimate moment, then a creeping friendly smile.

In H.P's story, he says:

"I will do whatever it takes Noir." He used her name in the same intimate intensity as her gaze at him. He patted her hand, and she turned it to grasp his in turn. They smiled at each other with the look of concern that dear friends share. Deep inside, hidden so deep that he dared not reveal it to even himself, Duane dreamed for an instant as they briefly held hands. She then removed her hand and turned to applaud the band as Haun finished his solo, and Duane's momentary dream ended.

He stated it was a look friends gave each other, so to me that implied friendly smiles. I understand Duane's inner-thoughts, but like you said it would be better to omit it and leave it to the reader. He could've worded it as to where Duane held Noir's hand for a length of time before she left to applaud the band, which would give the reader a brief, indistinct glimpse into his head.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Jesus Christ, Noir, get the fuck over yourself. It had NOTHING to do with you, it had to do with the fact that I liked his way better.

If you've ever read my writing, you'd know I'm a huge fan of heavy description and imagery, and always have been, so stop thinking this has anything to do with you, because it doesn't.

[blackwater1110]

Originally Posted by L'Oiseau Noir

He stated it was a look friends gave each other, so to me that implied friendly smiles. I understand Duane's inner-thoughts, but like you said it would be better to omit it and leave it to the reader. He could've worded it as to where Duane held Noir's hand for a length of time before she left to applaud the band, which would give the reader a brief, indistinct glimpse into his head.

Agreed. I think the difference here was in the interpretation. I read it as meaning Duane wanted more than just friends, while you read it as two friends being straightforwards. Obviously if that's what HP meant then your way makes a lot more sense.

[HumanePain]

Thank you everyone for the feedback! Great stuff! And yes, they are dear friends but I was trying to leave the reader hanging as to whether Duane might have romantic intentions or not. It becomes important at the end of the story.
I have seen many examples in real life (and in my own for that matter) where close friends of the opposite sex cross the threshold from the love of friends to the final step of romantic love, although often it is one sided. That is the mystery I am trying to depict. Will she reciprocate and if not, what will that do to Duane? But I must be careful not to reveal too much!

Thanks again everyone, I am very glad to see that it is being enjoyed, and this drives a writer (as most of you know) to strive for greater heights in the story!


To be continued...

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Jesus Christ, Noir, get the fuck over yourself. It had NOTHING to do with you, it had to do with the fact that I liked his way better.

If you've ever read my writing, you'd know I'm a huge fan of heavy description and imagery, and always have been, so stop thinking this has anything to do with you, because it doesn't.

Mhm. If you say so, Ophelia. You've been on my case ever since that post of mine in your Sailor Moon thread. But I digress, it's no use arguing with you. I'd have better luck fighting with a wall.

[Smile]

Get it published. We need more dark novels.

P.S.: Really like it.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by L'Oiseau Noir

Mhm. If you say so, Ophelia. You've been on my case ever since that post of mine in your Sailor Moon thread. But I digress, it's no use arguing with you. I'd have better luck fighting with a wall.

True, because unlike me, walls are easily torn down.
I accept your apology.

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

True, because unlike me, walls are easily torn down.
I accept your apology.

Who was apologizing? I sure wasn't.

It's just the truth. You like to run circles in arguments, always dragging it back to block one. There's never a real substantial argument when you're involved. All you do is continue to spew bullshit and make statements you know will drag on the fight, as you seem to take it as some sort of pet to your ego.

You made that comment earlier because you wanted to promote another stupid argument with me, as you knew I'd reply. Of course, you'll keep denying it and claim it had nothing to do with me when, in fact, it did. Otherwise you wouldn't be going out of your way to carry this on.

Now, to reiterate what you said:

Get the fuck over yourself, Ophelia.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by L'Oiseau Noir

Who was apologizing? I sure wasn't.

It's just the truth. You like to run circles in arguments, always dragging it back to block one. There's never a real substantial argument when you're involved. All you do is continue to spew bullshit and make statements you know will drag on the fight, as you seem to take it as some sort of pet to your ego.

You made that comment earlier because you wanted to promote another stupid argument with me, as you knew I'd reply. Of course, you'll keep denying it and claim it had nothing to do with me when, in fact, it did. Otherwise you wouldn't be going out of your way to carry this on.

Now, to reiterate what you said:

Get the fuck over yourself, Ophelia.

Look, you can believe whatever you want, but I don't care because I know I'm being honest. It didn't have anything to do with you.

You should know, I don't screw around with writing, it's FAR too important to me to use it for petty bullshit.


Also, could you please PM me explaining how I argue in circles and spew bullshit? I honestly don't think that's what I do, but I'd like you to explain. Not here, as I think we've jacked this thread enough.

[L'Oiseau Noir]

I don't need to PM you, as I can sum it all up right here:

You make supercilious comments usually along the lines of: Well, I win and you lose. Everything I say is right, and everything you say is wrong.

Such as the comment before this one you made, when you said, "Thanks for the apology" because you knew it'd tick me off, thus carrying on the argument. Also, when you made that statement that basically read as: "Well, Noir's "corrections" suck", you knew it'd spark another petty argument with me, which you could indulge in. And when you told me to get the fuck over myself, again, you knew I'd reply and keep the momentum of the argument going. This isn't the only instance you've done this; it's happened in several other threads, too.

You'll look through my post to find ONE tiny thing you can pick at, such as in another thread when you pointed out I used the wrong "to", just so you could start an argument. Then from there we just refute everything the other says, which leads the argument into a "I have to prove her wrong" circle; when it could simply be ended with a "I agree to disagree" type scenario.

Maybe that clarifies it. Anyway, enough of this threadjacking.

Sorry about all this, Humane! Please, do continue with your story.

[Xombie]

Okay, L'Oiseau, I do not have a problem with you, but you really SHOULD have used PM just now. BOTH of you, this is all unnecessary and extremely rude to Humane.

Anyway, I'm really liking this story so far. I've actually only skimmed it, for I don't have the time to read it word for word, so I can't exactly give too much feedback yet. Keep at it, man. :]

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by Xombie

Okay, L'Oiseau, I do not have a problem with you, but you really SHOULD have used PM just now. BOTH of you, this is all unnecessary and extremely rude to Humane.

Anyway, I'm really liking this story so far. I've actually only skimmed it, for I don't have the time to read it word for word, so I can't exactly give too much feedback yet. Keep at it, man. :]

I know, and I apologize to Humane for that, as it was unduly rude of me; I just sometimes get so carried away.

But, let's get this thread back on track! I have some updated feedback on the story so far.

I actually just finished reading through the entire story (I'd only read portions before), and I'm liking it a lot so far. It's entertaining, funny, and I like all the strange, colorful alter-egos he gave us G.netters. I still think it's kick ass that I'm Mayor, though I admit I found it strange with the whole Duane thing, as I never really talked to him (but I've got nothing against him either).

H.P, you need to post the rest! I want to see more.

Add Xombie to it, I want to see you translate her finger-armor fear into writing! xD

[Duane]

Hey, let's have a nice conversation sometime. How does that sound, Noir?

[L'Oiseau Noir]

Originally Posted by Duane

Hey, let's have a nice conversation sometime. How does that sound, Noir?

Sure thing, but not here. No more thread-jacking for me. Just PM me, or thread-jack one of my old topics.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by Xombie

Okay, L'Oiseau, I do not have a problem with you, but you really SHOULD have used PM just now. BOTH of you, this is all unnecessary and extremely rude to Humane.

I agree, c'mon guys, let's take this outside the thread and not jack it with a petty argument.

And Humane I love my part in the story. Please keep going. I must say I LOVE my character and it matches me quite well.

I do agree with Noir about what she said on taking it easy with adjectives and adverbs. You're getting just a tid bit overzealous with them. It can distract the reader from where they were and they might lose interest. Otherwise, it's awesome!!!! Keep going.

[HumanePain]

It's ok folks, I don't mind a little karma, I have thread jacked a few times myself too so payback is in order.

And Crimson: glad you liked it! Because I enjoyed giving your character their part! And I can't wait to post the finale for your character :rubs hands together with evil grin:



BACK TO THE STORY! MWUHAHAHAHA!

[HumanePain]

Chapter 7

Sarah was walking from the club towards her second story apartment. Humming one of the songs from her band's performance, she admired the street lamp moths fluttering about in the yellow light, casting flickering shadows against the brick walls of the shops shuttered for the evening. Then she stopped.

Three blocks down the street from her, a man was walking in measured steps, almost marching as he looked straight ahead at the town council chambers and then he would look down at his boots, then back up again, looking higher at the rooftops. He was measuring something. Then he saw her. She turned her head towards the shop window as if admiring merchandise, but the curtains had been drawn leaving no pretense of something to look at. She turned around without making eye contact, and hurriedly walked back to the club.

When she was back within earshot of the club employees locking the door she braved a look behind her, but the man was gone. A rather loud voice brought her attention back to the club entrance.

"Quick, let's get him home before someone sees him in this condition!"

"Ahhhhh now please don't make a scene on my account my dear friend, Duane said I could sleep on the lobby ...lobby ...COWch and sleep it off. NO one will be the WISE...ER" (hic!)

"Sir Canvas, please, not again! Last time you urinated in the candle holders!"

With a smile in memory and then throwing his head back in laughter, long wavy locks revealed a young man, younger than his inebriation would have led the casual observer to believe.

"Would you like to see me perform that ...ACT ..(hic!) again? Ya know...to be a witness...(hic!) for the PROsecu...shun? Ha! Wanna see?"

The two young waiters looked at each other over the drunk's head with rolling eyes and stumbled down the street into the dark with their customer, his loud singing now unabashedly off key.

Sarah decided it would be safer for herself to sleep on the couch. Running up to catch up with the trio, she spoke up.

"Bete-Noir! Bete-Noir!"

The young man turned around. "Sarah? I thought you left?"

"May I use your key? I think...I think I am being followed and would feel better staying at the club tonight than going home alone."

Bete-Noir saw the look of fear in her eyes. She was a regular performer at the club and had given him no cause to think she might steal any booze. Letting go of the now passed out Sir Canvas, he reached in his pocket for the key and tossed it to her.

"Hey!" His fellow waiter Brombley complained at the sudden weight of the sodden patron.

"Be sure to give them back to me in the morning, and if you leave before I arrive, leave it in the mailbox."

"Thank you Bete! Thank you!" Sarah hurried back to the club and looking both ways, she let herself in and shut the door, locking it behind her.

She could feel her heartbeat slowing already as the secure comfort of familiar surroundings of the bar washed over her. She sighed, and went upstairs where she knew there was a bed, and made herself at home.

.............................

The floor creaked.

With the sudden rush of adrenaline stimulating her to instant awareness, Sarah sat up in the bed, but before she could turn her head around or scream or anything, a gloved hand covered her mouth with a death grip, another hand pushing her backdown.

"SHUTUP! DON'T SCREAM!" The low growling voice hoarsely commanded by the dark clothed figure froze Sarah in place with eyes staring up in horror. The intruder's eyes stared back at her through a ski mask, only dark circles showing in the night.

Slowly, the intruder released her.
"Don't tell anyone what you saw tonight or you will pay a very high price!"

Sarah gulped and shakily managed to recover a voice.
"You you mean Sir Canvas?"

"NO! You know what I mean! When you were leaving the club!"

Sarah knew lying would not help. She slowly nodded.

The intruder turned to leave. "A HIGH PRICE! REMEMBER!"

Then Sarah could only hear footsteps down the stairs and the entrance door shutting. But something puzzled her.

She could swear the intruder...had breasts.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

Oooh! It's getting interesting. I can't wait for the next installment!

[Xombie]

I hate to just go along with the crowd, but..but..can I be in it? =D

[L'Oiseau Noir]

I like the latest installment, H.P!

One day, we need to do a collaboration. Mwahaha!

[Duane]

We should all collaborate sometime!

[Stormtrooper of Death]

No duane, we're collaberating. first I'll cram some UK82 down your throat, follwed by some 80's Japanese hardcore punk and we'll make some fucking racket!

[Duane]

We'll blow the world into bits with the awesome music we create!!!