americans

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Also I'll post personal attacks because I have no real content to write about

Oh, the irony! xD

*looks around* Eh, no offense. Carry on.

[heretoday_gonetomorrow]

CptSternn, you're an extremely insecure individual, and it's sad.

[Smile]

the american education system is not screwed up, not as much as people in other countries claim at least. I recently immigrated to hong kong and i find the asian education system (supposedly quite difficult) not so difficult. And I was educated in public schools all my life prior to coming here. So, maybe it's not the system, it's the kids who are trapped in the system.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Smile

So, maybe it's not the system, it's the kids who are trapped in the system.

That seems to be a reoccurring theme in this thread which does hold some truth. With the powers that being 'dumbing down' classes and removing grading scales for kids under 12, and setting up pass/fail systems for older students, its safe to say that the system itself bares some blame in all of this. Policies like 'no child left behind', which punishes schools for having slow students and sets a standard to encourage teachers to cheat does have an effect more than most people realise.

[raggedyanne]

You know what californians call that policy? No child's behind left.
Teachers are so afraid or parents who get them fired for giving fair grades that they allow cheating and grade unfairly. America is focusing on issues we are force fed by the media to get our attention away from issues that would make those in power unpopular.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

You know what californians call that policy? No child's behind left.
Teachers are so afraid or parents who get them fired for giving fair grades that they allow cheating and grade unfairly. America is focusing on issues we are force fed by the media to get our attention away from issues that would make those in power unpopular.

No Child Left Behind - another right wing neo-con polciy put in place by the bush admin. To date, nothing but bad things have been cited for this policy, and he still defends it.

For those who don't know what it is, here is the short and skinny on it...

Schools where students don't meet certain benchmarks get less funding than schools that meet those benchmarks. The right winger claim that this encourages those schools that don't preform well to do better.

The reality is, poor school districts and inner-city schools where performance is bad get even less[ funding than before, meaning less programmes to help the students there who need it the most. At the same time rich school districts in affluent areas (i.e. all predominately white middle class students) get more money for their already large budget, taken from the inner city schools.

There was an episode on Opera a few weeks back now, yes - Opera has a good show now and then that I watch), that featured Bill Gates (why I was watching sure) and Opera and Bill visited a few inner city schools in DC and NYC to see conditions there.

The walls had asbestos, so some classrooms were closed off, and had been for 20 years because there is no funding to remove the asbestos, which was falling out of the cracked ceiling on the floor.

The gym was barred, because it was in such bad shape it was a hazzard and condemed, the water fountains didnt work because there was something polluting the water mains and they couldnt have fresh water in the schools for drinking.

Thats just a few things they showed. Then they took students from there to some of the nicer schools in Arlington where they have computer labs, chemistry labs, etc to display the difference.

They then pointed out under bushs policy that the first school now gets less than the rich school due to his policy. This also means teachers in the first school get paid less.

To see that, and then wonder how they can afford almost 20 billion a month for military costs, but yet almost 1/4 of schools in America are in such conditions where they have no heat, (the school has to close on winter days if it gets too cold because they cant afford heat), conditions where parts of a school are actually condemned, and somehow try and justify that is quite insane.

The fact no news media and no public groups are decrying this is also quite a shame.

[raggedyanne]

Maybe if the little pro-life chimp actually toured one of those inner city schools he would see what the real world had to deal with. Why did our country elect him anyway?

[CptSternn]

Two new studies out I thought might stir some debate in this thread...

First, thanks to diet, exercise, and lifestyle, f(or lack thereof) for the first time in recorded history the average American is going to live a shorter life than their parents.

U.S. life expectancy may drop due to obesity

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7209499/

Also out, US is no longer the tallest nation. A nations height is directly tied, wouldn't ye know it, to diet, exercise, and lifestyle.

U.S. no longer tallest country in world

http://news.**********/s/ap/20070715...hSXULS2DXMWM0F

NEW YORK - America used to be the tallest country in the world. From the days of the founding fathers right on through the industrial revolution and two world wars, Americans literally towered over other nations. In a land of boundless open spaces and limitless natural abundance, the young nation transformed its increasing wealth into human growth.

But just as it has in so many other arenas, America's predominance in height has faded. Americans reached a height plateau after World War II, gradually falling behind the rest of the world as it continued growing taller.

By the time the baby boomers reached adulthood in the 1960s, most northern and western European countries had caught up with and surpassed the United States. Young adults in Japan and other prosperous Asian countries now stand nearly as tall as Americans do.

Even residents of the formerly communist East Germany are taller than Americans today. In Holland, the tallest country in the world, the typical man now measures 6 feet, a good two inches more than his average American counterpart.

Compare that to 1850, when the situation was reversed. Not just the Dutch but all the nations of western Europe stood 2 1/2 inches shorter than their American brethren.

Does it really matter? Does being taller give the Dutch any advantage over say, the Chinese (men 5 feet, 4.9 inches; women 5 feet, 0.8 inches) or the Brazilians (men 5 feet, 6.5 inches; women 5 feet, 3 inches)?

Many economists would argue that it does matter, because height is correlated with numerous measures of a population's well-being. Tall people are healthier, wealthier and live longer than short people. Some researchers have even suggested that tall people are more intelligent...



The whole article is worth the read, and explains throughout history the height of a nation can be used to gauge their prowess and dominance in the global arena.

[Don't Look Behind You]

Well concerning the life-span article....It does say that actually obesity doesn't influence the general life span all that much:
"They calculated in reverse, assessing the fall in death rates that would occur if all obese Americans had a normal weight. Their estimate shows that, if not for obesity, life expectancy at birth should be four to nine months higher than the record 77.6 years announced by the government last month. That slight gain translates into a loss that will worsen if current trends continue, the researchers said."

This of course doesn't change that it is simply sad how many americans are obese. Fast food, lack of excersize, life style and even the educational system of the Americans....suck, we all know this by now. Thank you.

The height hardly defines the health of a person or nation....Some races are naturally smaller, so this is certainly not a factor by which to compare intelligence or health. I am sure there are better statistics out there to prove your point.

[CptSternn]

I'm not saying height directly influences anything, just pointing out the article states that history does show this.

Also, its well known Americans until last year were the tallest nation in the world. Now, they are shrinking. What this means, as you said, is debatable. However way you look at it though, combined with the fact the population is becoming more and more unhealthy, it can't be a good sign by any means.

[Don't Look Behind You]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

combined with the fact the population is becoming more and more unhealthy, it can't be a good sign by any means.

Agreed.

i just didn't quite like the articles you presented.

[raggedyanne]

Good point, bad evidence

[CptSternn]

I couldn't decide where to put this, but after thinking about it, decided it goes here...

"Dog" Chapman no longer hounded by Mexico judge

http://news.**********/s/nm/20070802...2XgY3l6LOs0NUE

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Celebrity bounty hunter Duane "Dog" Chapman is no longer wanted by police in Mexico, after a court dismissed a charge he illegally detained a U.S. millionaire rapist, his lawyers said on Thursday.

Time has run out to convict Chapman, the crime-fighting star of his own "Dog the Bounty Hunter" TV reality show, of illegally nabbing convicted rapist Andrew Luster, heir to the Max Factor cosmetics fortune, attorneys said.

A judge has canceled an order for the arrest of Chapman, who for more than three years has faced the possibility of extradition to serve a jail sentence in Mexico, attorney Eduardo Amerena told Reuters.

"Chapman can now be in Mexico without any problem," Amerena said.

Chapman, a burly ex-con who says he has caught more than 7,000 criminals and fugitives, jumped bail in Mexico and fled to the United States in 2003 after spending two weeks in jail. Bounty hunting is illegal in Mexico.

Chapman's lawyers said prosecutors would almost certainly appeal but that they were confident the ruling would stand. The prosecutors' office could not be reached for comment.

Chapman was arrested after seizing Luster on the street in the tourist town of Puerto Vallarta to take him back to the United States to serve a 124-year jail sentence for drugging and ****** three women.

But passers-by alerted police who detained Luster, Chapman, two relatives helping him and a U.S. TV crew.


I'm not sure how many out there watch 'Dog The Bounty Hunter', but I myself am not a fan. I have watched it a few times. I had a flatmate a while back who loved it. He also loved wrestling, so that right there speaks volumes.

Anyway, you have to love this story. A man, who for a living hunts down men who borke the law to force them to go to court, breaks the law.

He knowing went and broke the law for money. The same thing he day in and day or persecutes others for, he did.

And how does he get off? By running away from the government who is trying to prosecute him. Why? Because he says he feels the laws he broke, were not important.

So, a man who hunts other men for money, and claims he is on the side of justice by doing this knowingly breaks a law in efforts to obtain money and then skirts justice by doing exactly what the men he chases are doing, for exactly the same reason.

And yet he still considers himself some sort of hero for 'bringing in' the exact same people that he himself is.

Nothing says 'American' like a big huge double standard.

[Methadrine]

As the old saying goes: "Do as I say, not as I do". Personal hypocrisy like that is in all of us sometimes..

[ArtificialOne]

Stern, what an obnnoxious and ignorant post. Seriously, this guy was rapist. How would you feel if you were ***** and the guy fled to a third world country with double standards like letting drug lords to run accross our border back and forth without any trouble.?

[ArtificialOne]

Never mind those double standards.

[raggedyanne]

Bounty hunting is illegal in Mexico? Why?

[CptSternn]

Bounty hunting is illegal everywhere except America. It's considered barbaric in many areas, plus many countries think outfitting and setting up a quasi-legal pseudo-police force with no real laws that govern them to hunt down other citizens is a bad idea.

The fact the man makes a living ratting out his fellow countrymen is also quite bothering to many outside America. It smacks of gestapo/secret police tactics like one would have seen in Eastern Germany with Stasi just a few decades ago.

It's sad America has gotten to the point where grassing up your neighbour is considered not only a good thing, but a way to make money and get on television.

A1 - as far as helping the 'girls who were ***', I'm all for that. However, if the only way to get justice is to break the law, then I am against that. I don't think sending Americans in to other countries to preform illegal acts in the name of making money has anything to do with justice.

He couldn't have cared less about the girl. The half million bounty was what drove him. You think 'justice' drove him and his cadre to break the law?

If you do, your diluting yerself. Also think about this - what kind of country has to break the law of other countries to find justice for their own citizens? What type of screwed up system is that?

The question you should be asking is why the American government didn't petition the Mexican authorities for this man if they knew where he was? The answer is simple - they wanted the bounty.

Justice was not on their minds at all, making money drove them to break the law.

Now, after violating the rights of a country full of people, the rights of all Mexicans, he sits back and claims he's some type of hero.

Right.

[ArtificialOne]

I didn't mention he did it for the money. Nor do I care. But you're trying to say most of the world finds the practice barbaric. I hardly think you're a good ambassador for the entire world. But, that could be the europeon arrogance at thinking they're the world. What I think is disspicable is using a rapist to make your point. That's lower than I even have a word for. You still just don't get that America is different than you want it to be. We are a different culture, in a different area of the world to you. We have different laws, customs, mores and values. Just because we speak english doesn't mean we share much in common.

[raggedyanne]

Hmm, europeans are always trying to peg us as barbaric aren't they?

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by ArtificialOne

I didn't mention he did it for the money. Nor do I care. But you're trying to say most of the world finds the practice barbaric. I hardly think you're a good ambassador for the entire world. But, that could be the europeon arrogance at thinking they're the world. What I think is disspicable is using a rapist to make your point. That's lower than I even have a word for.

What you must be missing is that the person he broke the law had no bearing on his actions. It could have been a rapist, a murderer, a tax dodger, etc. - he didn't care. He wanted the six figure bounty, he wasn't there for 'justice'. If he were there for 'justice', he wouldn't have brought his camera crew and later accepted the bounty.

He still had no authority to break the law. He also then ran from justice. He made bail, signed a sworn statement to return for court, and ran away.

You think thats a good thing? Two wrongs don't make a right. Allowing the powers that be to trample on the judicial system in efforts to put away criminals is not a good thing, as you seem to think it is.

You can't call something justice if you have to break the law to accomplish it.

You still just don't get that America is different than you want it to be. We are a different culture, in a different area of the world to you.

What you don't understand is I lived there for about 20 years. I'm pretty familiar with how things go there. In fact, as I said before, I was even in the Navy there, so I'm not some person with no idea of how life is.

It's you who seems to convince yourself that things are 'different'. You seem to be stuck in the 1950's with your views on how life in America is and should be. Your 'Leave It To Beaver' world has come and gone. It doesn't exist anymore.

We have different laws, customs, mores and values. Just because we speak english doesn't mean we share much in common.

By 'values' you mean your country has tendencies to trample on the rights of people worldwide, then act like its OK.

This event, relatively small in comparison to many US policies, is just another example.

It's things like this that make the rest of the world dislike America. When international laws are trampled, then the results flaunted on television and the persons involved treated like some type of hero. What do you think the rest of the world thinks when they see Americans acting in such a manner.

Think about it this way...

If a N. Korean bounty hunter tracked down a person they were looking for in America, and illegally grabbed them off the street and took them to N. Korea, you think it would be ok? What about if Iranian secret police took a man off the streets in your city, and it made the news, do you think people would just write it off as ok?

To some how think Americans would act different if foreign nationals started snatching up people off the streets and whisking them away to face justice in another country merely because the laws of that country deemed them a criminal is laughable.

Americans would be outraged. That of course, is only because it happened to them. When it happens to other countries, people like you can't get why it bothers other countries.

A new study shows this is nothing new though...

Study: Americans Don't Understand Others

http://news.**********/s/livescience...4ZmrabHezMWM0F

Rugged American individualism could hinder our ability to understand other peoples' point of view, a new study suggests.

And in contrast, the researchers found that Chinese are more skilled at understanding other people's perspectives, possibly because they live in a more "collectivist" society.

"This cultural difference affects the way we communicate," said study co-author and cognitive psychologist Boaz Keysar of the University of Chicago.

Simple study

The study, though oversimplified compared to real life, was instructive. Keysar and his colleagues arranged two blocks on a table so participants could see both. However, a piece of cardboard obstructed the view of one block so a "director," sitting across from the participant, could only see one block.

When the director asked 20 American participants (none of Asian descent) to move a block, most were confused as to which block to move and did not take into account the director's perspective. Even though they could have deduced that, from the director's seat, only one block was on the table.

Most of the 20 Chinese participants, however, were not confused by the hidden block and knew exactly which block the director was referring to. While following directions was relatively simple for the Chinese, it took Americans twice as long to move a block.

"That strong, egocentric communication of Westerners was nonexistent when we looked at Chinese," Keysar said. "The Chinese were very much able to put themselves in the shoes of another when they were communicating."

The results are detailed in the July issue of the journal Psychological Science.

Collectivist societies, such as the Chinese, place more value on the needs of the group and less on the autonomy of the individual. In these societies, understanding other peoples' experiences is a more critical social skill than it is among typically more individualist Americans.

Gross oversimplification

"Of course, these are very gross oversimplifications," said Keysar. "Even in America, you can find collectivist societies. For example, working class people tend to be much more collective."

Culture appears to direct our eyes to read others' emotions, too.

Psychologists at Hokkaido University in Japan have found that Japanese gaze at the shape of a person's eyes, while Americans focus on the mouth. When people from the two cultures interact, these crisscrossed sightlines can lead to miscommunication.

"We all know people from different cultures are different. This is not new. But what research is now showing is how they're different and what are the implications," Keysar told LiveScience. "If we are aware of how we think differently, this can go a long way toward not allowing these differences to get in the way of reaching mutual understanding."

[raggedyanne]

It's sad. My comments don't even spark and evil rant from sternn. ::shuffles of muttering something about evil plans for world domination and Mr. Bigglesworth::

[CptSternn]

No offense, but your comment is true. Europeans do think Americans are quite barbaric.

I mean, articles like this don't help...

http://news.**********/s/thenation/2...nation/4221949

Kenneth Foster's Fate

In less than three weeks Kenneth Foster, an African American man sentenced to death in 1997 for the murder of Michael LaHood, is scheduled to be executed in Texas.

LaHood's actual killer, Mauriceo Brown, was executed in 2006. Foster, who was in a car about 100 yards from the crime when it was committed, was convicted under the controversial Texas state "law of parties", under which the distinction between principal actor and accomplice in a crime is abolished. The law can impose the death penalty on anybody involved in a crime where a murder occurred. In Foster's case he was driving a car with three passengers, one of whom, Brown, left the car, got into an altercation and shot LaHood dead. Texas is the only state that applies this statute in capital cases, making it the only place in the United States where a person can be factually innocent of murder and still face the death penalty.

Foster maintains that he did not know that Brown would either rob or kill LaHood. According to an Amnesty International investigation, there is evidence not heard at trial that the murder was an unplanned act committed by Brown, as the latter himself claimed before his execution.

In 2005, a federal district judge found a "fundamental constitutional defect in Foster's sentence" and ruled that Foster's jury had not been asked to determine if he had any intent to kill LaHood, and that this failure represented a misapplication of the law. However, the state of Texas appealed to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which overturned the decision.

The crazy thing about this case is that no one argues that Foster killed the victim. As the Fort Worth Star-Telegram's award-winning columnist Bob Ray Sanders wrote, the case "is further proof of how cruel, capricious, unjust and utterly insane our death penalty laws have become....Because of this tainted system, whether you believe in capital punishment or not, a man who did not plan or commit a murder will die August 30 unless somebody -- a judge, the Board of Pardons and Paroles and/or the governor-- has the heart and the guts to stop it."


Thats right. A man was sitting in his car. A mate of his went to a conveinince store a few doors down. He got into an altercation which led to gun play. A man was killed.

The driver of the car who brought the man to the shop is now on death row.

The shooter told police it was a random occurance that he ran into the man he fought with at the shop. The driver of the car had no idea that there was a fight about to ensue, but yet under US law he is now sentenced to death.

He never killed anyone, nor did he help facilitate the death, but due to 'technicalities' in the law he is going to be executed.

Which country has the most number of people in prison? America.
Which country has the most people per capita in prison? America.
Which country has the most government sponsored executions? America.

So yeah, most of Europe and the rest of the world thinks Americans are quite barbaric. When not off unilaterally invading nations causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands, they seem to focus on turning that destructive power on their own citizens and having them jailed, tortured, and killed.

[CptSternn]

Cancer panel attacks U.S. food subsidies

http://news.**********/s/nm/20070816...66R3sOgKqs0NUE

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A new presidential report on cancer takes on not only tobacco companies but the food industry while calling on the federal government to "cease being a purveyor of unhealthy foods" and switch to policies that encourage Americans to eat vegetables and exercise.

The report, issued on Thursday, also urged changes in public and private insurance policies to encourage doctors to spend more time counseling patients on how to stay healthy by eating right, exercising and avoiding tobacco.

Federal, state, and local policies have actually made healthful foods more expensive and less available, have limited physical education in schools and created an environment that discourages physical activity, the report said.

"Ineffective policies, in conjunction with limited regulation of sales and marketing in the food and beverage industry, have spawned a culture that struggles to make healthy choices -- a culture in dire need of change," said the report, available on the Internet at http://pcp.cancer.gov.

Margaret Kripke of the University of Texas M.D. Anderson cancer center, a member of the President's Cancer Panel, said in a telephone interview, "What became clear to me is that we simply don't have the political will to protect the public health."

Several reports have shown that a third of all cancers are caused by tobacco use, and another one-third by obesity and inactivity.

"This country must not ignore its moral obligation to protect the health of all Americans. We can and must empower individuals to make healthy choices through appropriate policy and legislation, and the panel urges you to use the power of your office toward this life-saving goal," the panel, chaired by Howard University's Dr. LaSalle Leffall, wrote in a letter to Bush.

PURVEYOR OF UNHEALTHY FOODS

The report recommended much stricter control of the tobacco industry and urged Congress to authorize the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to regulate tobacco.

"The report also supports increasing the federal cigarette tax, which is currently 39 cents per pack," American Cancer Society Chief Executive Officer John Seffrin said in a statement.

"The panel's recommendation runs counter to the president's public opposition to a tobacco tax increase."

The federal government also should "require the elimination of unhealthy foods from school breakfast and lunch programs" and "must cease being a purveyor of unhealthy foods that lead to disease and increased health care costs," the report said.

This includes regulation of food advertising and changing agricultural support policies, it said.

"We heavily subsidize the growth of foods (e.g., corn, soy) that in their processed forms (e.g., high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated corn and soybean oils, grain-fed cattle) are known contributors to obesity and associated chronic diseases, including cancer," the report reads.

"The people who are doing the U.S. agricultural subsidies need to connect their subsidies with the policy on public health and I don't think that has been done," Kripke said.

Yet fresh fruits and vegetables are not subsidized in the same way. "And physical education classes in school have almost disappeared," Kripke said.

The American Cancer Society predicts more than 1.4 million Americans will be diagnosed with cancer in 2007 and that 559,650 will die.




Thats capitalism for you. Let the companies write the laws, and health goes out the window.

[raggedyanne]

Finally! They've just admitted that they're killing us and now they don't ant to do anything about it.