Satanists kill and eat goth teenagers

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think it's everyone's job to confront opinions that they think are stupid, yeah, how else will people learn? Either the confronter or the confronted will change their tune.

Do you feel it's necessary that one or the other "change their tune"? Is it unacceptable if people disagree, opinion-wise?

[a morbid curiosity]

If one's opinion is badly-informed.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by a morbid curiosity

If one's opinion is badly-informed.

If one's opinion is badly-informed, does it qualify as "stupid," or is it simply poorly informed?

[a morbid curiosity]

Stupidity: unintelligent: lacking intelligence

They would be unintelligent in subject in which they had formed a badly-informed opinion, so yes.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think it's everyone's job to confront opinions that they think are stupid, yeah, how else will people learn? Either the confronter or the confronted will change their tune.

Not always. It depends on how you converse with them. If you tell them in a very confrontational [and juvenile] way that their opinion is "stupid", then they aren't going to want to listen to you. However, if you tell them in a respectful and mature way that they are misinformed on a subject, then they are much more likely to listen to you.

Persuading folks isn't always about being the loudest and biggest dog in the park. Sometimes it's about being the most gentle and understanding.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by a morbid curiosity

Stupidity: unintelligent: lacking intelligence

They would be unintelligent in subject in which they had formed a badly-informed opinion, so yes.

Actually, when someone tells me my opinion is 'stupid', I think of it as meaning the same as 'worthless'. If they want to say that my opinion is misinformed, or even not very well thought-out, I'd be fine with that, but the word 'stupid' just seems a little harsher than is necessary most of the time.

It also sounds like something one would say on the playground in elementary school.

[a morbid curiosity]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Actually, when someone tells me my opinion is 'stupid', I think of it as meaning the same as 'worthless'. If they want to say that my opinion is misinformed, or even not very well thought-out, I'd be fine with that, but the word 'stupid' just seems a little harsher than is necessary most of the time.

It also sounds like something one would say on the playground in elementary school.

That's not really my problem.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by a morbid curiosity

That's not really my problem.

What isn't? Communicating properly? Do you not want to be clearly understood?

I'm confused. x_x;;

[a morbid curiosity]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

What isn't? Communicating properly? Do you not want to be clearly understood?

I'm confused. x_x;;

No, your interpretations of the word "stupid". As I did not call you stupid, the matter is completely irrelevant.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by a morbid curiosity

No, your interpretations of the word "stupid". As I did not call you stupid, the matter is completely irrelevant.

Ahh, I see; I didn't mean to indicate that you, personally, called me 'stupid'. I was just commenting on the subject in general. Throwing in my two cents, and all that.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by a morbid curiosity

Stupidity: unintelligent: lacking intelligence

They would be unintelligent in subject in which they had formed a badly-informed opinion, so yes.

So, you believe there's no difference between not having the correct information (ignorance) and being incapable of understanding the correct information (stupidity)?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Do you feel it's necessary that one or the other "change their tune"? Is it unacceptable if people disagree, opinion-wise?

No, it's not unnacceptable for two people to have differing opinions, but I think it's much better to tell someone that their opinion sucks and why than let them go around with a badly thought-out opinion that will either lead them to a particularly shitty decision or result, or get them laughed at by someone else. I see no reason to not criticise an opinion on the basis that everyone is entitled to a different one.

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Not always. It depends on how you converse with them. If you tell them in a very confrontational [and juvenile] way that their opinion is "stupid", then they aren't going to want to listen to you. However, if you tell them in a respectful and mature way that they are misinformed on a subject, then they are much more likely to listen to you.

Persuading folks isn't always about being the loudest and biggest dog in the park. Sometimes it's about being the most gentle and understanding.

If someone told me that my opinions were fucking ridiculous and then outlined exactly why they are ridiculous, therefore giving me reason to rethink my views, I would be much more grateful than if someone decided not to hurt my feelings. Opinions need challenging, otherwise there is no confidence in them and there is no growth.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

No, it's not unnacceptable for two people to have differing opinions, but I think it's much better to tell someone that their opinion sucks and why than let them go around with a badly thought-out opinion that will either lead them to a particularly shitty decision or result, or get them laughed at by someone else. I see no reason to not criticise an opinion on the basis that everyone is entitled to a different one.

If someone were to take one of your opinions they felt was poorly thought-out or based on misinformation, and they proceeded to tell you that it was stupid or sucked, how would you feel? Would you be more inclined to rethink your position on a particular matter if they'd expressed their thoughts on the issue in a non-accusatory and non-aggressive fashion?

Originally Posted by JCC

If someone told me that my opinions were fucking ridiculous and then outlined exactly why they are ridiculous, therefore giving me reason to rethink my views, I would be much more grateful than if someone decided not to hurt my feelings. Opinions need challenging, otherwise there is no confidence in them and there is no growth.

That's fantastic! I'll keep it in mind, from now on. I agree with you about opinions--they do need challenging. But, what are your thoughts on opinion-bashing?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

If someone were to take one of your opinions they felt was poorly thought-out or based on misinformation, and they proceeded to tell you that it was stupid or sucked, how would you feel? Would you be more inclined to rethink your position on a particular matter if they'd expressed their thoughts on the issue in a non-accusatory and non-aggressive fashion?

No, I'd feel patronised and want them to tell me that I'm being a fuckwit so that it sinks in better.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

No, I'd feel patronised and want them to tell me that I'm being a fuckwit so that it sinks in better.

You'd feel patronized by which, exactly?

[JCC]

Someone sugarcoating their criticism of me.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

Someone sugarcoating their criticism of me.

If one chooses to calmly and non-aggressively state their thoughts on a matter, one is automatically sugarcoating their thoughts? Is disagreeing with someone automatically criticizing them?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

If one chooses to calmly and non-aggressively state their thoughts on a matter, one is automatically sugarcoating their thoughts? Is disagreeing with someone automatically criticizing them?

Alright I'm going to deliver my final description here because we're running around in circles:

If you're going to criticise my opinion I would rather you say:

Listen cunt, your opinion sucks and this is why...

than:

Actually, I would like to respectfully disagree with you on this point, but that's okay, because we all have opinions and we're all a beautiful snowflake...

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

Alright I'm going to deliver my final description here because we're running around in circles:

If you're going to criticise my opinion I would rather you say:

Listen cunt, your opinion sucks and this is why...

than:

Actually, I would like to respectfully disagree with you on this point, but that's okay, because we all have opinions and we're all a beautiful snowflake...

Is this because you prefer to have "ammunition" with which you may retaliate, should you feel slighted? Do you tend to feel less slighted, if someone comes at you hard and mean, as opposed to calmly and logically?

[onyxprop]

well, after reading that bullshit, I know now not to trust Goths.

[MegearaErotica]

Strangly, I like debating on my beliefs and opinions, but I don't think that this is the right thread for that. Thank you everyone who stood up for me and thank you JCC. I find this kind of thing beneficial and get caught up in the debate. No hard feelings?

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Is this because you prefer to have "ammunition" with which you may retaliate, should you feel slighted? Do you tend to feel less slighted, if someone comes at you hard and mean, as opposed to calmly and logically?

I think what JCC wants, in not so many words, is for folks to be straight-forward with him. What he doesn't realize is that folks can be straight-forward without being rude or crass.

JCC: Folks can hold whatever opinions they want, and even debate about them, and still retain respect for the person they are debating with. Calling someone's opinion 'stupid' shows lack of tolerance for anyone's opinion other than your own doesn't help them. Now if you think they are wrong, you can still say why you believe they are wrong, without being immature about it.

That make sense?

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I think what JCC wants, in not so many words, is for folks to be straight-forward with him. What he doesn't realize is that folks can be straight-forward without being rude or crass.

Ahhh. I see.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by onyxprop

well, after reading that bullshit, I know now not to trust Goths.

Wait, what?

Whether you are talking about the original article or the discussion above, I have to ask why.

[gothicusmaximus]

Wynneth, what I think certain people find to be bothersome about you is that you constantly maintain this veneer of being boundlessly compassionate, poised, and understanding, when in reality, you aren't. In this argument, your position is that one can challenge an opinion without being 'rude' or 'mean', which is not an invalid stance, but this belief doesn't manifest in how you conduct yourself.

That's fantastic! I'll keep it in mind, from now on. I agree with you about opinions--they do need challenging. But, what are your thoughts on opinion-bashing?

As sarcastic and condescending as anything JCC said.

Is this because you prefer to have "ammunition" with which you may retaliate, should you feel slighted? Do you tend to feel less slighted, if someone comes at you hard and mean, as opposed to calmly and logically?

An unfounded, critical accusation.

JCC is simply saying that he prefers his company to not mount affectations, and immaculate politeness and courtesy under even the most inflammatory circumstances is an affectation-- benign as it may be, it can still irritate someone inclined toward more forthright discourse.