Pro-Gun Anti-Gun. - Page 4

Deadmanwalking_05 · 12-24-2008, 08:53 AM

Not always,but I have gotten into a few scrapes where it was about bragging rights (Theirs not mine),because of my rep.

But they found out the hardway why I had that rep.

The only thing I love about a fight is when it's over.

Albert Mond · 12-24-2008, 09:16 AM

Guns are for queers.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 12-24-2008, 09:23 AM

Suck my cock.

Thanks for posting.

Albert Mond · 12-24-2008, 09:34 AM

Fuck you, asshole. Cock shit bitch.

Jonathan · 12-24-2008, 10:17 AM

Gunchucks are brilliant, a much better idea than my original magchucks.

I applaud your contributions in the field of research and development to assist the brave men and women who serve their countries, and sincerely hope that a no-bid contract will be awarded to you to help you continue your work on their behalf.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 12-24-2008, 10:30 AM

Make sure all the training in use is hammered out before someone ends up taking themselves or squad mates out of the population.

Drake Dun · 12-24-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms.Crowbar

All that being able to win a fight does is attract more fights. You're like a fucking magnet if you win a fight.

I'm sitting here trying to picture some female person who is a highly trained martial artist, and who has a reputation for getting into and winning fights, and this reputation actually attracting people to pick fights with her, and all I keep coming up with is characters from Japanese animations.

KontanKarite · 12-24-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms.Crowbar

I hate guns, I hate fighting and will avoid it at all costs and, more specifically...
I HATE WAR! I hate war, I hate Nuclear weapons and I hate what war leads to! Why the fuck do you think I'm a member of Greenpeace and CND? Why the fuck do you think I went to Faslane? To fucking Protest against war and Nuclear weapons! You think I enjoy fighting? By fuck, the first thing that I'll do is walk away from a fight because I don't like fighting. I'll walk away, and only if I get attacked will I fight.
All that being able to win a fight does is attract more fights. You're like a fucking magnet if you win a fight.

Bitch, shut the fuck up. You want to present some badass posturing with no evidence that you are, you're going to illicit a response from me of this nature.

Hey, here's a novel fucking thought. Karate is FUCKING obsolete in the art of war these days. Deal with it and get with the fucking program. You've done nothing much more different than kids learning to play soccer. Fuck off you stupid cunt.

Every fucking time you post, you have more shit to say to lift yourself higher than the opinion that's been established on you here and yet STILL you want to fucking cry because mommy and daddy wont let you have your little devil story book and let you look like a fucking clown.

Jesus fucking butt fuck, no one is impressed with you. Nothing you have said is even remotely interesting or special.

Lock that shit up with the guns being dishonorable bullshit. There's no honor in violence, so why the fuck should anyone go easy on anyone else? You want to know why your precious samurai warrior isn't taken seriously anymore? Because they'll NEVER EVER be able to win a modern war with their bare hands and swords. How about getting into the real world and lay off the fucking Dragon Ball Z, you damned child.

Albert Mond · 12-24-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms.Crowbar

All that being able to win a fight does is attract more fights. You're like a fucking magnet if you win a fight.

I think if I ever see you, I'll fight you. It's a win-win situation, really. If I win, I'll have the enjoyment of having kicked your ass. If I lose, I'll have fulfilled a masochistic fantasy.

CptSternn · 12-24-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

...Especially when you factor in other things like the balance of power between the government and the governed.

This isn't really effected. Look at Northern Ireland, or back to 1916 during the Uprising. Guns were and are illegal, yet those who deem it necessary to use them to gain freedom still have access to them.

Quote:

The same line of argument as would have us throw up our hands and enact a categorical gun ban could be used, much more effectively, to not only continue the U.S.'s current war on drugs, but expand the scope of it to almost every intoxicating substance under the sun. We could save more lives by getting rid of cigarettes or alcohol than by getting rid of guns, but I doubt any of us is going to get on board with that. Sitting here in an apartment in Tokyo and sipping wine, it would be very easy for me to advocate giving away the rights of other people to own firearms, since I don't want one very much anyway. But one man's trivial privledge is another man's treasured freedom.

I would argue thats the wrong way to look at that. I mean, personally, I think they should legalise drugs across the board to lower violence. Drug related violence is directly linked to the prohibition by the government. This leads to obvious problems with supply and demand, backed by a government who is not afraid to use military force on a civilian population, leading to cartels and gangs that have no problem in using the same amount of force back. To compare a gun ban to a drug ban is not a fair comparison - I don't think cartels will spring up trying to get guns to people in America, nor do I think gun running gangs will be showing up across the country either.

Quote:

Then there's just the basic morality of it. It's like I said before. A gun ban is not a magical spell. It's an order to the police that they will force people to comply with under threat of violent force. The same as any other law. So what you're basically saying when you support it is, it's okay to point a gun at someone, if necessary, to take away their gun. It's rankly unegalitarian.

You say that, and per your first point you say its unfair to compare an unarmed <fill-in-the-blank-country> to an unarmed America, but the reality is we don't have to look outside of America to see a gun ban.

DC and NYC already have gun bans in place. True, the DC gun ban just lost in court and is now being lifted, but it has been there for decades and the effects have already been seen and can be quantified. Same goes for Virginia - where they have a programme in place that automatically doubles the sentence or adds five years time to any sentence for anyone who uses a gun in the commission of a crime.

Sure you still have gun violence, but the amount in comparison to other areas has dropped significantly and you see now looking at the actual stats the the gun violence is limited to a specific group - usually inner city gangs who shoot other inner city gang members - you do not see the average public getting shot on the scale you see in other metropolitan areas in America.

Despanan · 12-25-2008, 12:21 AM

Quote:

And, in they eyes of a Karate student, the use of weapons to defend yourself is seen as cowardice.

I'd like to point out, I've spent quite a few years training in the martial arts, and this has to be one of the most goddamn stupid things I have ever seen. If I was looking for a place to train, and found a dojo where I heard this drivel I'd be out of there before an adequately placed cliche could describe the speed of my exit.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 12-25-2008, 06:45 AM

Stern,you also need to look at the crime stats in the areas that have bans on guns.

My guess is you will see more crime in the areas that have banned guns as opposed to those that don't have restrictions on firearms.

Ms.Crowbar · 12-26-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I think if I ever see you, I'll fight you. It's a win-win situation, really. If I win, I'll have the enjoyment of having kicked your ass. If I lose, I'll have fulfilled a masochistic fantasy.

Only if you were to attack first. I won't fight unless I absolutely have to.

KontanKarite · 12-26-2008, 10:15 AM

You might want to use a gun, Ms. Crowbar, I bet Albert has WAY more deadly intent than you do. You'll lose if he attacks first.

KontanKarite · 12-26-2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despanan

I'd like to point out, I've spent quite a few years training in the martial arts, and this has to be one of the most goddamn stupid things I have ever seen. If I was looking for a place to train, and found a dojo where I heard this drivel I'd be out of there before an adequately placed cliche could describe the speed of my exit.

But Brent, if someone were to use a gun on her, she'd resort to using a sword. You know, because it's not cowardice.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 12-26-2008, 12:34 PM

This takes alot of discipline. (One of my shooting heroes,the other being Jerry M.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLnmv...eature=related

It's an older vid,but damn is old Bob quick on the draw (Not only that but he hit's his targets)

Drake Dun · 12-28-2008, 03:08 AM

Sternn, I'm kind of tied up with the DNA topic in another thread, but I don't want to puss out on this one entirely. Could I get you to dig up some of the data you were talking about with D.C. and Virginia? If the numbers are genuinely striking, you might be able to persuade me to soften my stance on this question, or at least carve out little exceptions.

Obviously it's preferable if the numbers are coming from a non-advocacy source.

CptSternn · 12-29-2008, 12:18 PM

Drake -

I'll find some stats for you, but I don't have them right off hand. The programme is called Project Exile.

http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/exile/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

In the first two years the project resulted in a 40% drop in gun crime across the board - from armed robbery to murder. It moved Richmond from #5 in murders per-capita in America to like #30 something.

Since then with this still in place gun crime has dropped even more, but I am looking for the specific stats on that.

Solumina · 12-29-2008, 01:23 PM

Why does it always have to be a choice between nobody having guns and everyone having guns? Why can't we just have stricter enforcement of things like background checks? Maybe institute a competency test before you can own one, after all you really shouldn't own a working gun if you can't shoot for shit. I have absolutely no problem with most people owning guns, I just don't want violent criminals and idiots to have them.

To answer the questions I have never been to a shooting range but if someone offered to take me then I would most likely go.

KontanKarite · 12-29-2008, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

Why does it always have to be a choice between nobody having guns and everyone having guns? Why can't we just have stricter enforcement of things like background checks? Maybe institute a competency test before you can own one, after all you really shouldn't own a working gun if you can't shoot for shit. I have absolutely no problem with most people owning guns, I just don't want violent criminals and idiots to have them.

To answer the questions I have never been to a shooting range but if someone offered to take me then I would most likely go.

Don't you just love the black market?

Saya · 12-29-2008, 06:06 PM

From what we see in Canada, most guns used in murders are legally obtained, those that aren't are more often bought from those who legally obtained them or stolen from those who legally obtained it. Toronto though has a hand gun problem among gangs since they smuggle them in from America.

exacerbatedpoet · 12-29-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

Why does it always have to be a choice between nobody having guns and everyone having guns? Why can't we just have stricter enforcement of things like background checks? Maybe institute a competency test before you can own one, after all you really shouldn't own a working gun if you can't shoot for shit. I have absolutely no problem with most people owning guns, I just don't want violent criminals and idiots to have them.

To answer the questions I have never been to a shooting range but if someone offered to take me then I would most likely go.

I agree with this. I have no problem with guns. Guns can be a form of defense and protection. As along as you are not an idiot or a murderer, I think its okay. I get that if there are no bans then gun access is easy and that guns can be obtained through illegal means. Guns aren't the issue. People are. If someone really wanted to kill, they would find a way to kill, gun or not. If you are attacked by someone there is no amount of martial arts or sharp objects that can save you. Sometimes a gun just works. I'm not saying it should be the first option or that it is the best but in these times they can operate as a necessary evil. Perfect peace is great and I wish it could happen but sometimes its just a choice between them or you and you have to make a choice.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 12-30-2008, 08:08 AM

Thanks for posting everybody (Reguardless of your stance on the subject)

But Saya it's easy to blame the next country instead of adressing the problem in your own streets.I'm not saying that they don't cross the border to bring guns back....but you do understand you're talking about criminals right?

They break the law,it's what they do,and even if the U.S. banned all firearms,they would still find away around the laws there (Just as their American counterparts would,and have done here)

CptSternn · 01-03-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Thanks for posting everybody (Reguardless of your stance on the subject)

But Saya it's easy to blame the next country instead of adressing the problem in your own streets.I'm not saying that they don't cross the border to bring guns back....but you do understand you're talking about criminals right?

They break the law,it's what they do,and even if the U.S. banned all firearms,they would still find away around the laws there (Just as their American counterparts would,and have done here)

This is true, however, this simplified explanation fails to address a few things. First, crime is committed by a small percentage of the population. Per my previous post about Project Exile, stats show that once the police started their enforcement of this and started locking people away for long periods for gun related offenses, the number of illegal guns floating around dropped immensely. You will find people who engage in illicitly illegal actively are the same people with the guns. Remove them from the equation and the number of illegal guns drop. The average criminal who might engage in soft crime (i.e. breaking into cars, shoftlifting, etc.) then will no longer be armed as no one wants to go to prison for 20 years over stealing something thats worth under $10, and you see gun crime drop across the board.

An example of this is pizza drivers in Richmond. Prior to them enacting this programme they were often robbed at gun point. After the programme went into effect delivery drivers reported like an 80% drop in robberies, and the few that were robed were either robbed at knife point or with a baseball bat or something other than a gun, enabling many to escape.

CptSternn · 01-03-2009, 12:51 AM

Also on a side note, countries that ban guns don't actually ban guns.

Let me explain...

In th UK and Ireland they have gun bans. That being said I go shooting on a regular basis.

How so? Well, farmers and hunters are still allowed guns. You have to fill out a mound of paperwork, but you can get a gun for legal purposes. You also have to register your bullets and keep track of them as once a year inspectors come by and count them and you must be able to tell them where each shell is and if it was fired and where.

You also have gun clubs here. If you legally purchase a gun you can join and go to the range. So yes, guns are banned and you can't just walk in off the street and buy them, and no - you won't find gun shops here like you do in America, but you can get them through special government approved dealers and can have them, but there are many restrictions.