Want Perspectives from ALL races

[~~Auriel~~]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Sigh. I told myself I would not get involved, but I feel that I have to. I think both sides here are right and wrong. I'm black and being biases against every single white person you see is wrong. Case closed. However, let's not confuse being biased with being cautious and being aware of the fact that a) Racism still exist and B) You are a certain race. People should not even have to think about what race they are. It isn't fair, but in order to get along, one has to remember that it's been made into an important factor, more so than it needs to be. I have to remember sometimes that I am black, and maybe that's why certain people react to me the way they do. And some people have to remember that they are white and based on their skin tone, certain people will react differently to them as well. The best we can do is to try to be tolerant. And most of all realize our differences, and yet not make them into dividing lines. The last thing this world needs is less division. So if you're white, try to understand where your black friend is coming from (after learning about slavery in AP US History, I have to say it's VERY disturbing. After all the movies we've watched and books we've read. So far the whole year as been focused around the subject and it makes you realized that this stuff can not just be discarded and forgotten, however it can be, more importantly, forgiven), and if you're black, understand that not all white people are 'bad' or 'evil' or racist pigs (They were many who helped slaves, keep that in mind, you don't know if a white is a descendant of slave owners or abolitionists) Thank you.

*Stands and applauds*

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

African tribes kill each other without much a difference at all other than a difference in skin TONE.

Is that racism? Unless your refering to Rwandan genocide, in which case that was based on political power, and even though skin tone was a deciding factor in who got that power, it still was not the reason they killed each other.

Europe has countries splitting constantly based on MINUTE differences (look east of Germany, it's fucking Mitosis for countries over there)

Cultural differences are a whole different beast than racism. If the Croatians want to be considered their own people, thats not racist, thats culture.

and YOU good sir, are living in a country where the northern section was fought over vigorously based on a trivial difference of religion.

Much like the right-wing in America who try and link religion with the current 'war on terror', the brits tried to link the Troubles in the North to religion, when the reality is nothing is further from the truth. The conflict in Northern Ireland is about self-rule. The same thing the American forefathers fought for - the right to govern their own country, the right to not pay tax to a foreign power across the sea. The brits are always trying to bring religion into it and efforts to keep the public behind it. If you believe the conflict is about religion, then you don't know much about the conflict.

I've got no problem with you saying this country is racist as balls mate, but Europe is not some sort of love-fest.

The amount of racist organisations here is nothing compared to there. Sure you can find the odd skinhead or nazi here or there, maybe even a few larger groups like the national front in some areas, but the reality is its nothing compared to the number of hate groups which thrive in America. You don't see them engaging in violence here like they do there. For example, we haven't had anyone drug to death behind a truck here for the colour of their skin. You don't see kids hanging nooses in trees and that sort of extremist behaviour here either.

Not saying the rest of the world is perfect, just saying racism seems to thrive in America like no where else in the world.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Ophelia, your opinions have honestly made me sick.
If you believe the social and economic disadvantages of minorities are brought by their own fault, you're really much more stupid than most people you libel as such.

Yeah, I tried to be nicer about it, but pretty much that.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I never said I wanted people to go to prison for hate messages, you dumb, dumb dumdum.

I never said you wanted that, you fatuous, fatuous, fatty fat. My comment was sarcasm intended to expose the stupidity of your idea that blacks can't attack whites.

I want white people to stop BAAAAAAAWing like little pussies whenever a downtrodden ethnic minority member questions them in the slightest.

I have no problem with a black person approaching me and saying "Historically, your people have been assholes to my people." I object to the idea that I personally am a piece of shit and should feel guilty because my ancestors probably enacted racism at some time in history.

Can you name a gangsta' rap song that explicitly attacks whitey?

I can name several, but I want to try an experiment. Google 'kill whitey lyrics' and see what comes up. You'll probably get some grammy winners.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I never said you wanted that, you fatuous, fatuous, fatty fat. My comment was sarcasm intended to expose the stupidity of your idea that blacks can't attack whites.



I have no problem with a black person approaching me and saying "Historically, your people have been assholes to my people." I object to the idea that I personally am a piece of shit and should feel guilty because my ancestors probably enacted racism at some time in history.



I can name several, but I want to try an experiment. Google 'kill whitey lyrics' and see what comes up. You'll probably get some grammy winners.

Eminem's white... and the first guy to come up was Wesley Willis who isn't even Rap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Willis

[Saya]

I tried googling "kill whitey rap" and the first link told me that Jews were the ones who owned the record companies that produced hateful rap >.> Its all a conspiracy!!!

Anyway, just to throw my two cents in, while I don't think anyone should hold slavery over someone else's head and make people feel guilty about that, I think it should be acknowledged that discrimination and racism has put a lot of minorities in a bad place, and they deserve chances to get themselves out of poverty.

Slavery didn't exist in Newfoundland, and our black population is relatively new, so I'm speaking from what I've seen of our native population in Labrador, and elsewhere in Canada. I don't feel guilty because its possible that I had ancestors who helped invade them, but I do feel sad that they are still suffering the effects of racism. For example, it wasn't long ago at all that they were forced to go to schools run by churches where they were forced to speak English and worship Jesus, and taught they were dirt, so when they went home their parents couldn't understand them at all. And only this year did the government of Canada apologize for that. And even today, people who live on reserves live in poverty, and a lot of them don't have access to full education, I saw on the news once that a lot of First Nations teenagers have to move out of the reserves and live on their own in Edmonton at the age of fifteen if they want to go to high school. A lot of them go missing, especially girls, but there's no study on exactly how many, its a ignored problem. I think its good that natives get a scholarship and tuition discounts when they go to university, because a lot of those familes wouldn't be able to afford sending their kids to college, and a good education is a start to end the vicious cycle of poverty. I do think though that in general the government should stop just throwing money at them and saying sorry, they should actually get involved with programs to help them out.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Ophelia, your opinions have honestly made me sick.
If you believe the social and economic disadvantages of minorities are brought by their own fault, you're really much more stupid than most people you libel as such.

You're misunderstanding me.

It's not a minority's own fault if he's born into a bad neighborhood and poor.
It is his own fault if he doesn't make something of himself.
If you're born into a bad way, yeah that sucks, but you have to work hard to get out of it. That's true for black people in Philly, and it's true for white people living in trailer parks.

And I never said anything about social disadvantages.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Then I stand corrected on your meaning, but you're still terribly wrong.
First, you're thinking of each minority that has a bad life as an individual. Why? It's common knowledge that minorities have harder lives.
Statistically, if 13% of America is black, then 13% of Congress should be black; 13% of the rich people should be black; 13% of the professors should be black. But they're not.
Either this society has systematically robbed blacks from their potential - which means it either still hasn't recovered from its racism, or it's still racist altogether - or it turns out blacks are socially inferior to whites if they can't escape their situations.
Which do you think it is?

Comparing it to poor white people is nowhere near an excuse. Yes, white people are also victims of this capitalist system, and several millions of them live under harsh conditions as expendable work force, but they weren't prejudged as deserving of those conditions based on an arbitrary physical characteristic that sets them apart to shallowly justify their place as a lower class.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Then I stand corrected on your meaning, but you're still terribly wrong.
First, you're thinking of each minority that has a bad life as an individual. Why? It's common knowledge that minorities have harder lives.
Statistically, if 13% of America is black, then 13% of Congress should be black; 13% of the rich people should be black; 13% of the professors should be black. But they're not.
Either this society has systematically robbed blacks from their potential - which means it either still hasn't recovered from its racism, or it's still racist altogether - or it turns out blacks are socially inferior to whites if they can't escape their situations.
Which do you think it is?

Comparing it to poor white people is nowhere near an excuse. Yes, white people are also victims of this capitalist system, and several millions of them live under harsh conditions as expendable work force, but they weren't prejudged as deserving of those conditions based on an arbitrary physical characteristic that sets them apart to shallowly justify their place as a lower class.

I'm not wrong at all, because I never said any of these things weren't true.
I never said America was free of the effects of racism, and I never tried to use poor white people as an excuse for poor black people. All I said was that it's not only black people who are affected by poverty.

[Albert Mond]

hi der. wut is numberz mean?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I'm not wrong at all, because I never said any of these things weren't true.
I never said America was free of the effects of racism, and I never tried to use poor white people as an excuse for poor black people. All I said was that it's not only black people who are affected by poverty.

Tell me how and if I'm way off:

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

The system is not set up to keep minorities down, because there are people of every race below the poverty level.

Are you not saying that there is in fact no racism because there's also white people that are poor?

If a black guy in a ghetto wants to have a better life, he is 100% able to do that. Yes, it's going to be hard as fuck, but too bad.

Are you not casting the blame on the victim? After all, if it is 100% possible for a black man to leave the ghetto, then each one that doesn't is simply a lazy fuck, is he not?

If you're born poor into a bad place, then that sucks, but life is unfair.

Are you then justifying the system by casting the blame on the victim rather than accepting the system needs a radical change?

And who cares if it's harder? At what point does it stop being the fault of white people as a whole and start being the fault of bad decisions made my individual black people?

How about at the point where statistically they are even?

I was born into a bad neighborhood because my parents made bad decisions.It's the same fucking thing with black people in ghettos.

Once again, are you not casting the blame of the victim?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Are you not saying that there is in fact no racism because there's also white people that are poor?

I said THE SYSTEM. The system isn't racist because it's a goddamned system. The system is set up to keep poor people poor, but it is NOT set up to keep black people poor.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Are you not casting the blame on the victim? After all, if it is 100% possible for a black man to leave the ghetto, then each one that doesn't is simply a lazy fuck, is he not?

Maybe not lazy, but unwilling to work hard enough to better himself. It is possible to better yourself.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Are you then justifying the system by casting the blame on the victim rather than accepting the system needs a radical change?

I never said that the way things are is a good way. I've said over and over again that it isn't fair and that it sucks. Why are you so eager to paint me as a racist?
I know there should be change, but it isn't going to happen any time soon, because there are many people who are still racist and who won't accept that skin colour isn't really indicative of personal worth. I accept that reality, and unfortunately, it does then become the responsibility of the individual to better him or herself.
The only other option is to wait around until every single person accepts every other person.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

How about at the point where statistically they are even?

So you're saying that until black and white people are equal, it's the fault of EVERY white person for any bad thing that happens to EVERY black person?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I never said that the way things are is a good way. I've said over and over again that it isn't fair and that it sucks. Why are you so eager to paint me as a racist?

I think he's implying that you're somewhat naive rather than racist. You have this idea that everything changes when you go to school and college and that the ghetto is easily escaped. Going to under-funded ghetto schools won't solve much. It's possible to get out, sure, but is enough being done to bring these areas up? Hardly.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I know there should be change, but it isn't going to happen any time soon, because there are many people who are still racist and who won't accept that skin colour isn't really indicative of personal worth. I accept that reality, and unfortunately, it does then become the responsibility of the individual to better him or herself.
The only other option is to wait around until every single person accepts every other person.

If you want people to change the way they think, influence them. Sitting around waiting for spontaneous widespread epiphany won't make progress.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

So you're saying that until black and white people are equal, it's the fault of EVERY white person for any bad thing that happens to EVERY black person?

No, he's saying that it's the responsibility of people to stand up and say "This is fucked up, and we want change." Until they do, they're allowing this shit to happen. This is different to Albert Mond's "white people should be berated by black people because you had naughty ancestors", this is saying that we're apathetic spectators and that needs to change.

[Ms.Crowbar]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

At the end of the day this sort of thing is an American thing. Throughout Europe, Asia, and Africa there is no racism like the racism in America. Only in America do you hear this sort of talk. Only in America do people put so much emphasis on the colour of ones skin or your heritage. It just shows ignorance these days in America is limited to the few who never look beyond their own borders.

Bullshit.
It's not just in America, you fool.
Here in Scotland, if you so much as look different, you'll get shit for it.

[MegearaErotica]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think he's implying that you're somewhat naive rather than racist. You have this idea that everything changes when you go to school and college and that the ghetto is easily escaped. Going to under-funded ghetto schools won't solve much. It's possible to get out, sure, but is enough being done to bring these areas up? Hardly.

It isn't easy to escape, but it's far from impossible. I used to live in the poorest part of Miami when I was nine years old, and every day I would walk the four miles to the better side of the city and check out a math and a grammer book from the public library. If an elementary schooler can do it by herself, almost anyone can, so don't give me any b.s. about not having enough opportunities. There's always something you can do.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

It isn't easy to escape, but it's far from impossible. I used to live in the poorest part of Miami when I was nine years old, and every day I would walk the four miles to the better side of the city and check out a math and a grammer book from the public library. If an elementary schooler can do it by herself, almost anyone can, so don't give me any b.s. about not having enough opportunities. There's always something you can do.

What have you achieved? Where have you moved to, from your own achievements?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think he's implying that you're somewhat naive rather than racist. You have this idea that everything changes when you go to school and college and that the ghetto is easily escaped. Going to under-funded ghetto schools won't solve much. It's possible to get out, sure, but is enough being done to bring these areas up? Hardly.


If you want people to change the way they think, influence them. Sitting around waiting for spontaneous widespread epiphany won't make progress.


No, he's saying that it's the responsibility of people to stand up and say "This is fucked up, and we want change." Until they do, they're allowing this shit to happen. This is different to Albert Mond's "white people should be berated by black people because you had naughty ancestors", this is saying that we're apathetic spectators and that needs to change.

You're acting as if I don't know these things are true and/or don't do anything to help the situation.

Nothing I've ever said or done suggests that.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think he's implying that you're somewhat naive rather than racist. You have this idea that everything changes when you go to school and college and that the ghetto is easily escaped. Going to under-funded ghetto schools won't solve much. It's possible to get out, sure, but is enough being done to bring these areas up? Hardly.

Then what do you propose should be done?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

math and a grammer book from the public library. If an elementary schooler can do it by herself, almost anyone can, so don't give me any b.s. about not having enough opportunities. There's always something you can do.

"Grammer"?

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Not saying the rest of the world is perfect, just saying racism seems to thrive in America like no where else in the world.

THAT is the price of mixing people who hated their country and/or were being fucked enough by their old government that they came here. A bunch of angry people in a room.

Honestly, half of "racial" conflicts are simply power struggles, mate. Half of the time they don't care about your race, but every good regime needs a target.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

"Grammer"?

See, she's still in the ghetto.

[Necrophagist]

From debating about whether or not whites should feel guilty because they had fat ancestors, we have now moved on the ' Your spelling sucks! ' section. Great.

First - I am a Paki, I was brought up as a middle class citizen in England, attacked because of my race, but you don't see me complaining. You can't just ' get out ' of a ghetto. Those are hugely ignored areas, which are beginning to fall apart. You will certainly not find any facilities there. And your definition of ' poor ' is hardly comparable

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

I am a Paki, I was brought up as a middle class citizen in England, attacked because of my race

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

you don't see me complaining

Oh really O_o

[Necrophagist]

to that of a ghetto resident's definition of ' poor '

Lack of education isn't is not the sole factor, which affects life in the ghetto.

[Necrophagist]

Sharing information with others is complaining now, is it Joker?