Dallas police ticketed drivers for not speaking English

[Saya]

Dallas police wrongly ticketed at least 39 drivers for not speaking English over the last three years, Police Chief David Kunkle announced Friday while promising to investigate all officers involved in the cases for dereliction of duty.

Pending cases will be dismissed, and those who paid the $204 fine for the charge, which does not exist in the city, will be reimbursed, Kunkle said.

"I was surprised and stunned that that would happen, particularly in the city of Dallas," Kunkle said. "In my world, you would never tell someone not to speak Spanish."

The citations were issued in several different patrol divisions by at least six different officers. One of those officers was responsible for five of the citations, Kunkle said.

The case that led to the discovery of all the others occurred Oct. 2, when Ernestina Mondragon was stopped for making an illegal U-turn in the White Rock area. Rookie Officer Gary Bromley cited Mondragon for three violations: disregarding a traffic control device, failure to present a driver's license and "non-English speaking driver."

In that case and perhaps the others, officials said, the officer was confused by a pull-down menu on his in-car computer that listed the charge as an option. But the law the computer referred to is a federal statute regarding commercial drivers that Kunkle said his department does not enforce.

Bromley, 33, is a trainee officer in the northeast patrol division, meaning he still works with a training officer during every shift. His training officer on that day was Senior Cpl. Daniel Larkin, 53.

According to department policy, a sergeant must also sign off on all citations. The supervisor who signed off on the Mondragon ticket was Sgt. David Burroughs, 50.

"In this case, the field training officer was aware of ultimately what the recruit officer had done," Kunkle said. "The field training officer is going to bear more responsibility than the recruit officer."

Mondragon, a native Spanish speaker, challenged the charge in court and it was dropped, her daughter said. Dallas police said they will drop all charges against Mondragon, who speaks limited English and does have a Texas driver's license.

Police officials did not release the names of the officers and supervisors involved in the other cases. Kunkle said he expected the investigation to last at least a few weeks and could reach back several years.

"An officer has to know the elements of an offense or what's necessary to constitute a crime," Kunkle said. "In this case it appears that officers did not understand."

It is unclear whether the erroneous tickets were reported by the courts. Administrative Judge C. Victor Lander said Friday afternoon that he would be surprised if such charges got past a judge. He said he would conduct a review.

"If there are any outstanding warrants as a result of these kinds of cases that have been inadvertently written, I'm going to direct that they be immediately held," Lander said. "If there are any cases in the prosecutorial pipeline, I'm going to request the city attorney to hold the case."

The citations amount to a small percentage of the roughly 400,000 tickets issued by Dallas police each year. But the total is large enough to have possible legal ramifications, said George A. Martinez, a professor at the Southern Methodist University Dedman School of Law.

"It sounds like a policy," Martinez said. "Discrimination on the basis of language ability, and that's targeting Latinos, and so that sounds pretty serious to me."

Attorney Domingo Garcia said he has been hired to represent the Mondragon family.

"The issue has nothing to do with whether people should learn English or not. I believe they should," Garcia said. "It's about not following the law and issuing citations against a law that doesn't exist, against a fairly voiceless and helpless population."

Beyond potential legal problems, some said the tickets send a troubling message to Hispanics.

"It's the principle of the matter that there are police officers out there representing our city who actually think that it's a crime not to speak English," said Brenda Reyes, a political consultant and member of the League of United Latin American Citizens.

Kunkle, who apologized repeatedly, said he recognized the incidents probably would damage the department's relationship with the Hispanic community.

"When we deal with crime victims ... our interest is not their immigration status," Kunkle said. "It's not something that we concern ourselves about. We want to serve all people."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...2.4bac015.html

[vindicatedxjin]

Yep this story is BIG over here. My boyfriends mother is actually friends with Domingo Garcia and his wife. This situation has been causing tons of Hispanics around here to be super outraged for the past two weeks, and I mean they have to right to be. The cops aren't following the law. That's bad. But then again, I truly believe that if you choose to live here, you should speak English. Thing is, though that sometimes it doesn't even matter if you speak English..I had a friend that I had always thought was American, I just always assumed that he was born here. Then out of nowhere I got a phone call from another friend saying that he had been caught DUI, and that he got deported. I mean...you get into trouble if you're doing things illegally...whether it be the cops or the Mexicans.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Yep this story is BIG over here. My boyfriends mother is actually friends with Domingo Garcia and his wife. This situation has been causing tons of Hispanics around here to be super outraged for the past two weeks, and I mean they have to right to be. The cops aren't following the law. That's bad. But then again, I truly believe that if you choose to live here, you should speak English. Thing is, though that sometimes it doesn't even matter if you speak English..I had a friend that I had always thought was American, I just always assumed that he was born here. Then out of nowhere I got a phone call from another friend saying that he had been caught DUI, and that he got deported. I mean...you get into trouble if you're doing things illegally...whether it be the cops or the Mexicans.

Do you still not understand why we call you a racist?

[the-nihilist]

Fuckin' banjo-strummin' moonshine swillin' country music listenin' republican votin' white-bread honkey mothafucka

[vindicatedxjin]

How am I a racist? Nothing I just wrote shows even a slight hint of me being so...If I was so racist then why is my own boyfriend Hispanic? You're pathetic.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

How am I a racist? Nothing I just wrote shows even a slight hint of me being so...If I was so racist then why is my own boyfriend Hispanic? You're pathetic.

*whispers* your boyfriend being hispanic only shows you're not racist against hispanics, you could always be racist against some other race. I dont know nor do I care to look into or get into a debate on if you're racist or not, I'm avoiding that thread entirely, I'm just pointing out a flaw in the logic of this individual post.

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Renatus

*whispers* your boyfriend being hispanic only shows you're not racist against hispanics, you could always be racist against some other race. I dont know nor do I care to look into or get into a debate on if you're racist or not, I'm avoiding that thread entirely, I'm just pointing out a flaw in the logic of this individual post.

And for what reason was that?

[DepthsofSpace]

Originally Posted by the-nihilist

Fuckin' banjo-strummin' moonshine swillin' country music listenin' republican votin' white-bread honkey mothafucka

On the subject of racism.. Couldn't this be construed as racism? ^^

I wouldn't say the statement vin made was racist. At least not in this context.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

But then again, I truly believe that if you choose to live here, you should speak English.

If you can't see the underlying racism in that sentence you're beyond help.

[Razeal18]

In a perfect world everyone would have the forsight to learn more than one language so as to be more easily understood by the masses that are either not capable or too un intelligent to learn the national language. As a hispanic male, i know a thing or 2 about learning more than one language. my step father has about the equivelent of a 6th grade education but still tries to learn and speak english. even for a person of higher education, learning a new language over the age of 16 not exactly as easy as it seems. So in the future try to take into account your world and how difficult it would be if you had to live in a new contry and instantly learn a new language, then have the police charge you a weeks pay for not being able too. yeah its bullshit, and its racially motivated

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

And for what reason was that?

For your sake, which is why I was whispering it.

[DepthsofSpace]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

If you can't see the underlying racism in that sentence you're beyond help.

I don't think language has anything to do with race.

If you go to a foreign country, it is a courtesy not to expect the people there to speak your language; and such, you should attempt to learn theirs. Despite numerous English speakers around the world, I find it extremely rude when Americans go to other countries and expect everyone there to speak English.

Example: If you move to Russia, would you not be expected to speak Russian? Move to Yemen, speak Arabic? So, despite the fact I do think this country needs to become more multi-lingual, the most common language is English. If you are moving into this country, it would be a courtesy to learn the most commonly spoken language to assist you in business transactions.

All that said, the ticketing of non-English speakers is ridiculous. It's not, and should not be, a law in this country to speak English.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

If you can't see the underlying racism in that sentence you're beyond help.

Exactly. It's racist as all hell to expect someone coming to a country where the vast majority of whites and blacks as well as a huge percentage of asians, hispanics, and natives all speak English to at least make the attempt to learn the language.

Oh, wait. No it's not.

[the-nihilist]

Originally Posted by DepthsofSpace

On the subject of racism.. Couldn't this be construed as racism?

That's not racist at all. Don't be ridiculous.

[Solumina]

The US has no official state language and to say that any immigrants need to "learn the language" is ridiculous. Yes, if you want to fully integrate with the surrounding country then English is going to be vastly helpful and it is stupid for immigrants to be upset with others for not knowing whatever language that they speak, but it is rather easy to live in an area where English is not the only language commonly spoken and all normal aspects of life can be carried out.

Hell if I drive for 10 minutes I can end up in a part of town where hardly any of the adults speak more than very basic English, it would be easier for me if they spoke English but I have no right to expect them to learn it and honestly I like the opportunity to submerge myself in another language, I've even managed to pick up a few words of Mandarin and Korean.

[vindicatedxjin]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

Exactly. It's racist as all hell to expect someone coming to a country where the vast majority of whites and blacks as well as a huge percentage of asians, hispanics, and natives all speak English to at least make the attempt to learn the language.

Oh, wait. No it's not.

This is what I think, my stepfather moved here with his brother years ago. Difference is that my stepdad actually wanted to LEARN how to speak English and he WORKED at getting his Citizenship. It took him a while... but he's now fluent,an American citizen, and is a Manager for a high end retail store... His brother on the other hand, chose to live in our little mexico his whole life, never tried to learn English, and is still Illegal, he drives without a drivers license and no insurance...he's asking to get deported, as are so many people whom I work with, am friends with, and care about. (not just Hispanics, Koreans too.)

My point is that if anyone moves anywhere with a different language and they plan on staying there for the long term, then they should at least TRY to learn the language.

I mean it's becoming almost mandatory at so many places to know how to speak Spanish in order to get a job. And if you do, you get paid more. If American citizens have to learn Spanish in order to fulfill the needs of the Hispanic community. Then why can't so many new Immigrants just take the time to try and learn English? It shouldn't be a legal thing. It should be a personal thing. I know for a fact that if I wasn't fluent in spanish (thanks to my step dad and his family) and I was going to move to Mexico for some strange reason...then I would try my damn hardest to learn as much Spanish as possible.

Whats wrong with feeling that way?

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

This is what I think, my stepfather moved here with his brother years ago. Difference is that my stepdad actually wanted to LEARN how to speak English and he WORKED at getting his Citizenship. It took him a while... but he's now fluent,an American citizen, and is a Manager for a high end retail store... His brother on the other hand, chose to live in our little mexico his whole life, never tried to learn English, and is still Illegal, he drives without a drivers license and no insurance...he's asking to get deported, as are so many people whom I work with, am friends with, and care about. (not just Hispanics, Koreans too.)

My point is that if anyone moves anywhere with a different language and they plan on staying there for the long term, then they should at least TRY to learn the language.

I mean it's becoming almost mandatory at so many places to know how to speak Spanish in order to get a job. And if you do, you get paid more. If American citizens have to learn Spanish in order to fulfill the needs of the Hispanic community. Then why can't so many new Immigrants just take the time to try and learn English? It shouldn't be a legal thing. It should be a personal thing. I know for a fact that if I wasn't fluent in spanish (thanks to my step dad and his family) and I was going to move to Mexico for some strange reason...then I would try my damn hardest to learn as much Spanish as possible.

Whats wrong with feeling that way?

This is all quite logical and I feel the same way. Indeed there are some circumstances where immigrants will have a particularly hard time picking up the local lingo but that doesn't excuse people from atleast giving it a try.

Also Jin, I beleive that being able to speak another language boosts your chances to go further in any career, especially Spanish in some parts of America.

[Solumina]

Actually if you moved to Mexico the language that you should learn would depend on which part you moved to, there are over 60 official languages after all.

[vindicatedxjin]

Solumina, I used to stay in Mexico for months at a time....and I can assure you, that as long as you know basic Spanish. You're good. Obviously there is different slang, and dialects depending on where you are. But it's like comparing a Cajun to a Canadian...

[Solumina]

You do know that different regions of the same country can be vastly different, right?

[vindicatedxjin]

Solumina, trust me...I know. I've been all over Mexico...From Monterrey to Veracruz.

Languages really start changing when you get deeper in to South America, like Columbia, Cuba, and Brazil. Even still... as long as you know Spanish fluently you can get around quite easily.

[Corpsey]

You're starting to sound more and more intelligent by the post.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by vindicatedxjin

Solumina, trust me...I know. I've been all over Mexico...From Monterrey to Veracruz.

Languages really start changing when you get deeper in to South America, like Columbia, Cuba, and Brazil. Even still... as long as you know Spanish fluently you can get around quite easily.

Yes you can get along with basic Spanish but that doesn't mean much (hell I managed to make it around Greece for a month with sign language) and it still isn't always going to be the language of the majority of the local population, think of Oaxaca if you want an example of a specific state.

[zerademark]

Solumina, trust me...I know. I've been all over Mexico...From Monterrey to Veracruz.

Languages really start changing when you get deeper in to South America, like Columbia, Cuba, and Brazil. Even still... as long as you know Spanish fluently you can get around quite easily.

Correction: In Brazil the official language is Portugees (sorry for the spelling)

And its true, two countries might speak the same language, but the accent and spelling might seem different when they speak to you. We here in Suriname talk Dutch, and we enjoy laughing at the Hollanders for the way they speak.

Nou, sjegg, dooi tog niett sjo overdreeven. Gain Hollander die sjo praat.

[Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Zerademark

Correction: In Brazil the official language is Portugees (sorry for the spelling)

Correction: In Brazil they speak 15th Century Portuguese.

North Germans laugh at how South Germans speak German. Same thing goes for Spanish in most countries. Its the same words, just pronounced a different way.

Then again the odds of swallowing your toungue do dramatically increase when you speak "Souther" German.