Osama Bin Laden, Dead

[CptSternn]

Everyone has heard the news. This will obviously be on the news for weeks. The fact they buried him at sea hours after they killed him will be talked about for decades.

I wanted to post this link to the GOP responses to the death...

http://tinyurl.com/3w4ad8k

First off, for a bunch of so-called Christians, they sure seem to be reveling in one mans death. Ironically, Huckabee a friggin Baptist Minister mentions this in his response.

'It is unusual to celebrate a death, but today Americans and decent people the world over cheer the news'

Really? Because obviously, thats what Jesus would do. I remember when it was written he celebrated all the deaths of people he didn't care for.

Isn't celebrating a mans death a bit morbid? Lets also not forget this is going to be used as an Al Quida recruiting tool. American's got angry when they saw Iraqi's celebrating after 9-11. This looks like the same thing happening in reverse. You can't call a group of people animals for celebrating death, then turn around and throw a big death celebration.

I like to pick on Huckabee because of his religious roots. I like this statement he also put out -

'Welcome to hell, bin Laden. Let us all hope that his demise will serve notice to Islamic radicals the world over that the United States will be relentless is tracking down and terminating those who would inflict terror'

Welcome to hell? Really? According to your religion. His religion says something different. If this is not about religion, then why are you bringing it in to this? The thinly veiled threat against all members of the Islamic religion also will not go unoticed.

It is like saying 'black criminals'. I'm not singling out blacks, just black criminals. If you are not a black who is a criminal, you won't have a problem. When they say 'Islamic radicals', they specify a group. They didn't mention American Christian radicals, like Tim McVeigh or David Keresh. Nope, he specifically went after a specific religion.

This shows a mind-set. It's sometimes what you don't say which says the most.

It bothers me he sells himself as a 'holy man', while out there supporting war, execution, murder, and of course capital punishment.

I'm Catholic, and we are against killing of any kind. So the evangelicals in the states get on my tits as they are the most war like and always seem to be out for blood from someone, which ironically enough makes them seem a bit like the Romans who persecuted Christians in the same manner.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

[HumanePain]

That we was buried at sea may be talked about for decades but by people with the same level of intelligence as the birthers or by the same ones with a hidden agenda as the birthers. And the President didn't make his speech until they had DNA confirmation.

He was buried at sea because that was Muslim tradition, and so it was the traditional way to dispose of his body, not out of respect for him but respect for our Muslim allies. There is some wisdom there.

In regards to celebration: yes, war is a real bummer, and if one traces history, Bin Laden's actions have their roots in Big Oil providing a "royal family" the means to hold power over the will of the people, but one must also remember that instead of trying to win the hearts of the world, Bin Laden chose to murder innocent civilian men, women and children on passenger jets and on the ground. The people rejoice when justice against a grave crime is done.

Perhaps Bin Laden thought that the only way to get the world's attention was by a heinous and violent act, but he would have been more appreciated by the world committing violence against himself with the same example of a Tibetan Monk than to slaughter innocents. The way he ultimately decided to wage war is similar to Hitler: in the end triggering a war that killed many more innocents as well as soldiers.

And lastly, to address Christian's reaction to Bin Laden's killing: in the holy Qu'ran, chapter Surah Al-Baqarah 2:191, here is what Islam says about it:

"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid ... you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers ... "

Yes, the bible contains instructions to kill too. Both books are reflections of the minds of men. Both are imperfect and inconsistent and very violent.

Would Jesus have rebuked Huckabee? Sure, but that is easy pickin's as ANY politician is hardly Christian!

Where you are leading Captain is ultimately the death penalty, and death has been sanctioned as punishment/justice for thousands of years. But I can easily see that you are against the death penalty too. There is valid reason to doubt capital punishment because of the innocent who have been executed, but that is a topic for a different thread.

[Mr.Doobie]

AMERICA!!!!!!!!!

FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI

[CptSternn]

A few more articles, all with points I was making.

It's good to see I am not alone.

Killing Osama: Was it Legal?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...t-legal.html?y

This was an assassination. America has a policy against assassination. It actually has three, put in place by Ford, Regan, and Carter. That's before we get into the Geneva Convention. People can twist it however they want, but at the end of the day what America has now said to the world is they support assassinating people they don't like, which they now can no longer wag their finger at dictators when they do the same.

Then there is this -

http://tinyurl.com/66dwflt

Teachers, parents grapple with how to explain bin Laden death

Yes, small children are asking their parents and teachers, why exactly are we celebrating this man being killed?

Parents are telling their children it is ok to celebrate someone getting shot, if you don't like the person and do not agree with their views. Remember when the Iraqis killed those American troops and hung their bodies up, danced around and burned the American flag? Remember how Americans were OUTRAGED at how that was so SAVAGE? Yeah, America is doing the same thing now. Don't think the rest of the world doesn't see this, especially the Arab world.

Next we move on to this -

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...-say-otherwise

Republicans say torture led U.S. to bin Laden. Facts say otherwise.

We all know gitmo and waterboarding didn't lead to his capture. If that were true they would have caught him quicker than 10 years. But it doesn't stop the right-wing now trying to use this as a proverbial fig leaf to justify kidnapping and torture. Thats right, again, the world watches as America tries to make the case that torture is a good thing, but again, only if America does it. If any other country tortures people for info, it is wrong. And again, US policy and the Geneva Convention forbid this, but that hasn't stopped them and now many politicians are saying it was a good thing. Again, the world is watching.

So what is America fighting for? They claimed to be fighting in Iraq because Sadaam was engaged in murder, torture, and assassination. He was putting people in prison without trial for life merely because of their political views. Yet to combat this America is now doing the same thing.

In Afghanistan they claimed to be going after those responsible for 9-11. Yet now the facts show he wasn't in Afghanistan, so they invaded for nothing and now are still refusing to leave. Bin Laden had more support in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia than he ever did in Afghanistan. No one suggested invading those countries.

Now they claim they killed him and have made a media circus about the whole thing, revelling in death, murder, torture, and assassination. I just hope Americans remember this when a high profile American is assassinated, kidnapped, or tortured.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Everyone has heard the news. This will obviously be on the news for weeks. The fact they buried him at sea hours after they killed him will be talked about for decades.

I don't doubt it, there are alot of stupid people out there.

Originally Posted by Sternn

Welcome to hell? Really? According to your religion. His religion says something different. If this is not about religion, then why are you bringing it in to this? The thinly veiled threat against all members of the Islamic religion also will not go unoticed.

So his being in hell doesn't have anything to do with, say, killing over three-thousand people, right?

Originally Posted by Sternn

I'm Catholic, and we are against killing of any kind.

BullSHIT, your dumbass religion's been killing bitches for centuries: The crusades, the inquisition, turning their backs during the Holocaust, the Catholic and Protestant war in Northern Ireland which has been going on since, like Last Thursday.

The whole reason the Catholic Church exists today is CENTURIES of violent oppression. You guys made your name and spread your religion by the sword, and tortured and killed ANYONE who let loose even a whisper of defiance.

Don't tell me your faggy club doesn't believe in killing, because it does.

Also:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Nothing wrong with blowing stuff up for a cause...Just because bombs are dropped from planes doesn't make it any different from bombs delivered in alternate ways...The only difference between a bomb dropped from a plane and a car bomb is the vehicle used to carry the bomb...The reality is, a bomb is a bomb. A bullet is a bullet. You can claim your side is 'right' in your cause because you back it, but don't expect the rest of the world to swallow that tripe.

Either you support people being able to stand up for what they believe in, or you don't.

You do too Seamen Sternn (that's right I'm demoting you). Now go swab the decks.

[HumanePain]

I would like to take this opportunity to rip open the stitches of our old wound and say that there is a difference between the Catholic Church's violent history and the peaceful love of Jesus Christ. Don't confuse 'em. That is all. This post is intended for young impressionable minds other than Des and I. And Kontan.

[Sinjob]

Sternn, will you ever shut the fuck up?

The first thing I expected in clicking this raging, fecal-throwing, infant-humping thread was to find yet another one of your radical theories. You and Osama aren't too different as you're both among a religion of hypocrites trying to constantly jusftify their barbaic ethics while at the same time pointing the finger in directions you know nothing of.

You're no different from the wackjob who claims he's adopted Bigfoot's slightly retarded child.

[Versus]

Sternn, you really piss me off sometimes. You see things in complete black and white.

There is nothing wrong with being happy a mass murderer was killed. To pretend like it's anything else but that is completely fucking asinine. That son of a bitch wasn't expressing an opinion, standing up to anything done to him, or fighting for any justifiable cause. Don't even try to play some bullshit like "It's not okay to kill people that have a different opinion!" He stopped having a different opinion long before he considered mass murder and genocide were a good idea to propagate his racism and hatred, and he stopped being human the moment he actually went and did it.

This was an assassination. America has a policy against assassination. It actually has three, put in place by Ford, Regan, and Carter. That's before we get into the Geneva Convention. People can twist it however they want, but at the end of the day what America has now said to the world is they support assassinating people they don't like, which they now can no longer wag their finger at dictators when they do the same.

You are so wrong. Bin Laden wasn't a political leader, he was a fucking terrorist at war with the entire world. What is so hard to understand about that?

Yes, small children are asking their parents and teachers, why exactly are we celebrating this man being killed?

You can't explain this to children anymore then you can explain why some people are religious and why some people aren't, but that's completely okay with you, isn't it? Children think in black and white so of course they won't understand! This is an adult subject, Sternn.

Remember when the Iraqis killed those American troops and hung their bodies up, danced around and burned the American flag? Remember how Americans were OUTRAGED at how that was so SAVAGE? Yeah, America is doing the same thing now. Don't think the rest of the world doesn't see this, especially the Arab world.

We all know gitmo and waterboarding didn't lead to his capture. If that were true they would have caught him quicker than 10 years. But it doesn't stop the right-wing now trying to use this as a proverbial fig leaf to justify kidnapping and torture. Thats right, again, the world watches as America tries to make the case that torture is a good thing, but again, only if America does it. If any other country tortures people for info, it is wrong. And again, US policy and the Geneva Convention forbid this, but that hasn't stopped them and now many politicians are saying it was a good thing. Again, the world is watching.

Remember how Germans killed those Jews and pilled them into pits by the thousands? Remember how Jews were OUTRAGED at how that was so SAVAGE?

Fucking christ, Sternn. I don't know if you know this, dude: Every country, religion, race, gender, orientation, or whatever other subdivisions of people you want to use, has idiots. I don't just assume that Germans are Nazis because a few were. Stop assuming that the ignorance of a mob is shared by a nation, and that the mentality of a mob is anything but temporary.

So what is America fighting for? They claimed to be fighting in Iraq because Sadaam was engaged in murder, torture, and assassination. He was putting people in prison without trial for life merely because of their political views. Yet to combat this America is now doing the same thing.

I hope somebody punches you in the face. We killed Osama Bin Laden for this:

2,752

Don't compare what we did to a terrorist who renounced his humanity to what Saddam did to people.

In Afghanistan they claimed to be going after those responsible for 9-11. Yet now the facts show he wasn't in Afghanistan, so they invaded for nothing and now are still refusing to leave. Bin Laden had more support in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia than he ever did in Afghanistan. No one suggested invading those countries.

hai gaiz we fond him somwere els ysterdai so wel see u l8ter

Seriously?

[Sinjob]

Please do! I'm moving to New York in a few months, so perfect.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

I would like to take this opportunity to rip open the stitches of our old wound and say that there is a difference between the Catholic Church's violent history and the peaceful love of Jesus Christ. Don't confuse 'em. That is all. This post is intended for young impressionable minds other than Des and I. And Kontan.

Yes HP, of course you're right. They used to kill people, now they just r.ape children and cover for/enable pedo.philes.

This post is intended for young impressionable minds: stay the fuck away from the peaceful love of Jesus Christ, especially when the peaceful love of Jesus Christ keeps asking you to tell it your sins and putting its hand on your knee.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Versus, I swear to fucking SHIT I will buy you a fucking top shelf beer if you EVER step foot in New York or if I ever step foot in Colorado. Seriously, dude. That is a promise.

I think you're drunk. I'd like that, though.

[CptSternn]

Bin Laden unarmed when shot dead: US

http://tinyurl.com/4x2tave

There is now a media circus revelling in death, murder, torture, and assassination. I just hope Americans remember this moment when the tables are turned an it is an American at the business end of this sort of policy.

(10 years, 2 wars, 919,967 deaths, and $1,188,263,000,000 later; America has killed one man)

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Versus

There is nothing wrong with being happy a mass murderer was killed. To pretend like it's anything else but that is completely fucking asinine.

Next time they drag the bodies of dead Americans through the streets of Afghanistan, Iraq, or whatever small country America decides to invade next, think about this statement you made here.

That son of a bitch wasn't expressing an opinion, standing up to anything done to him, or fighting for any justifiable cause.

But he was. He released dozens of tapes, none of which were ever fully played, or partially in many cases. The whole conflict is about what is happening to the Palestinians. Bin Laden being from Saudi Arabia also had it out for the royalty there.

The two things both israel and saudi arabia have in common is they both are ruled in dictatorship fashion by small political groups which are only able to keep their power because America funds them with billions of dollars and even billions more in weapons every year.

This was a point made many, many times yet the US media have opted to ignore this point of the story. The quote that was in many released statements was you cannot kill the tree as long as the roots are in America and continue to feed.

As long as America is actively funding the atrocities which we see daily coming out of occupied territories in the middle east, there will be plenty more Bin Ladens.

If you really think you are on the right side of this conflict, then you clearly are swallowing all the brain washing the US government is putting you through.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Despanan

So his being in hell doesn't have anything to do with, say, killing over three-thousand people, right?

Whose hell? Catholic hell? The evangelical hell? Muslim hell? When you start invoking religious references to political situations you cast a whole lot of doubt on what you stand for.

BullSHIT, your dumbass religion's been killing bitches for centuries: The crusades, the inquisition, turning their backs during the Holocaust, the Catholic and Protestant war in Northern Ireland which has been going on since, like Last Thursday.

I'm not saying there hasn't been a history of this sort of thing. I am just stating my religion and what it means today. You don't see people at mass on Sundays killing anyone, nor do the sermons go on about killing. To try and argue the Church of today is somehow equal to that a century ago is like arguing all Americans are racist because they all once owned slaves.

A visit to America today will show people aren't slaving owning racists. A trip to Mass on Sunday for you might be equally as representative.

[CptSternn]

The main point I was making, again, which many have obviously looked to ignore is this -

America is out nation-building, invading small countries to pillage whatever resources are there under the guise of bringing 'democracy'. Once people bought into this idea because back in the early 1900's there was a lot of truth to it.

These days when the troops are being controlled by former CEO's with personal fortunes on the line, the intentions are no so clear, and obviously not so altruistic. You have people like cheney pulling the strings. You have multi-billion dollar American industries with their top staff working in some of the highest offices in America. You have billions a year being spent by said companies lobbying for changes that directly benefit them.

When you see that America is spending billions of tax payer dollars in wars that no one wants, sold on false pretenses, it really starts to show the true motives. Add to that the billions being sent to repressive dictator-like regimes and the atrocities which are happening under those regimes, all funded with American tax payer money and benefiting a small group of multi-national companies, you start to see the problem.

Combine that with the fact the American government has dropped all standards, all levels of what used to be called humanity and you now see the truth. America is no longer a beacon of truth shining off in the distance, it is a war machine that has no problem torturing, murdering, kidnapping, or assassinating anyone who gets it is way, especially if whatever it is up against is threatening the business industries of a company with direct ties to government.

If you buy into the wars, the torture, and assassinations, then you are no better than the crowd you claim to be up against. You are not bringing hope or change, just a new ruler at the top of the pyramid, this time the all-mighty dollar instead of the former dictator and his cadre.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Whose hell? Catholic hell? The evangelical hell? Muslim hell? When you start invoking religious references to political situations you cast a whole lot of doubt on what you stand for.

Who cares? That's just the way religious people talk. It wasn't a veiled threat, it's Huckabee talking like evangelicals do.

You're Catholic Sternn, and your Church claims that YOU and YOU alone have sole knowledge of the nature of God. According to your church there IS no separate "Muslim Hell" or "Jewish Hell". The world isn't some polytheistic pantheon, Your God is the only God; and your Hell is the only Hell, and all Muslims are going there.

Stop trying to pretend otherwise for political purposes.

I'm not saying there hasn't been a history of this sort of thing. I am just stating my religion and what it means today. You don't see people at mass on Sundays killing anyone, nor do the sermons go on about killing. To try and argue the Church of today is somehow equal to that a century ago is like arguing all Americans are racist because they all once owned slaves.

No, it's like saying when you have organizations like the Catholic League sending Death threats to Kevin Smith over a film with a rubber-poop monster. Couple this with your own statements and the fact that 48% of Catholics support Capital Punishment and it's pretty easy to see that Catholicism /= Total Pacifism.

Plus, ya know, the Vatican covered for Priests who decided to molest little boys and then blamed it on the Devil. Just Sayin'

[/quote]

[MissCheyenne]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

You have people like cheney pulling the strings.

Mother fucker, you know my secret

[Alan]

In my experience, the people who say we shouldn't celebrate bin Laden's death are conservatives who don't know what to feel about the fact that he was finally shot during the Obama administration.

[Jonathan]

The best thing would have been to take the guy alive, and have a proper trial because as a species we are supposed to value the rule of law even when it is inconvenient or when we really really don't like someone.

Even still, I'm going to have to defer to Twain in this situation:
"I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Alan

In my experience, the people who say we shouldn't celebrate bin Laden's death are conservatives who don't know what to feel about the fact that he was finally shot during the Obama administration.

I'm hearing leftists saying it too. I'm mixed about it, two wars and hundreds of thousands of people dead, its a hollow victory, you know? And he was a mass murderer but the suggestion by that republican guy that his body should be on display at Ground Zero seems barbaric to me, and I'm glad they decided not to release the photos. People otherwise being pleased doesn't bother me though.

[Despanan]

I've been hearing alot of bigoted stuff like "Stuff his body with bacon and tampons and dog-tongues".

I'm glad we're handling this in a classy way.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Who cares? That's just the way religious people talk. It wasn't a veiled threat, it's Huckabee talking like evangelicals do.

Thats my point exactly. He is a nut job who is fuelled by his religious beliefs, which makes him just as dangerous as any other zealot. If he were Muslim and was out there supporting killing various groups, wars, etc. he would be labelled a terrorist.

There is a great article on him and his issue this week with israel...

http://tinyurl.com/69am89q

He is the only presidential candidate who supports ethnic cleansing. I don't want to start a huge tangent on just him in this thread, I just wanted to point out his insane views on this matter.

You're Catholic Sternn, and your Church claims that YOU and YOU alone have sole knowledge of the nature of God. According to your church there IS no separate "Muslim Hell" or "Jewish Hell". The world isn't some polytheistic pantheon, Your God is the only God; and your Hell is the only Hell, and all Muslims are going there.

True, but I don't subscribe to that sort of attitude. Yes, I may believe that, but I sure don't go around telling people that. If they choose to subscribe to another religion, that is their right and I respect that right. I don't force my views on anyone, nor when discussing politics use my religion as a cudgel in which to deflect any criticisms of my views.

No, it's like saying when you have organizations like the Catholic League sending Death threats to Kevin Smith over a film with a rubber-poop monster. Couple this with your own statements and the fact that 48% of Catholics support Capital Punishment and it's pretty easy to see that Catholicism /= Total Pacifism.

That's an America group. They are American first and Catholic second. Having practised my religion in multiple countries, I can tell you being a Catholic in America is nothing like being a Catholic in Europe, especially Ireland. A totally different environment, different people, and different world views.

In fact, most of the stuff groups like that pull there anger many Catholics here, including Priests. Ireland is against the death penalty. You won't find a Catholic here that supports it. At the same time we have calls for legalising abortion, something you don't hear in America from Catholics. It's like night and day, Catholics in America and those elsewhere. I agree with you, that shite is crazy and shouldn't happen, but those are Americans first sure - conservative Americans. In Ireland we are very liberal. We are liberal to the point that our conservatives would be more liberal than the liberals elected in America, and this mindset is the same with the people in the Church. But again, I don't want to go off on a tangent with this one.

Plus, ya know, the Vatican covered for Priests who decided to molest little boys and then blamed it on the Devil. Just Sayin'

That was totally unacceptable and no one here supported that and our government passed legislation telling the Church to pay millions in reparations to anyone effected, which they agreed to and apologised, not that it makes it right, but it is a start.

[Despanan]

True, but I don't subscribe to that sort of attitude. Yes, I may believe that, but I sure don't go around telling people that. If they choose to subscribe to another religion, that is their right and I respect that right. I don't force my views on anyone, nor when discussing politics use my religion as a cudgel in which to deflect any criticisms of my views.

Then you're an asshole who does a disservice to his own faith and his fellow man. If you believe that your faith is the one true faith (as all normative Catholics must) and you believe that those who don't subscribe to that faith are going to hell (as all normative Catholics must) and you DON'T tell someone this because you want to maintain your liberal street cred/avoid a confrontation, then you're the worst kind of an asshole. this is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT Sternn.

That's an America group. They are American first and Catholic second. Having practised my religion in multiple countries, I can tell you being a Catholic in America is nothing like being a Catholic in Europe, especially Ireland. A totally different environment, different people, and different world views.

Clearly if American Catholics are violent, and European Catholics are Pacifist (they aren't but lets just pretend Sternn is right) then being Catholic does not cause one to be pacifist, being EUROPEAN causes one to be pacifist.

Once again, you Irish Catholics set off car-bombs and attempt to assassinate people. European Catholics burned witches, tortured and murdered Muslims and heretics, tried to blow-up Parliment, and engage in terrorist violence in Northen Ireland. You AREN'T pacifists. You yourself have argued FOR violence on more than one occasion.

In fact, most of the stuff groups like that pull there anger many Catholics here, including Priests. Ireland is against the death penalty. You won't find a Catholic here that supports it.

I'm sure there's at least one.

At the same time we have calls for legalising abortion

The pope certainly wouldn't agree with that. That makes you all bad Catholics.

In Ireland we are very liberal. We are liberal to the point that our conservatives would be more liberal than the liberals elected in America, and this mindset is the same with the people in the Church. But again, I don't want to go off on a tangent with this one.

You're not Liberal BECAUSE of the church, you're liberal IN SPITE of the church.

That was totally unacceptable and no one here supported that and our government passed legislation telling the Church to pay millions in reparations to anyone effected, which they agreed to and apologised, not that it makes it right, but it is a start.

Well so long as they APOLOGIZED all is forgiven.

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Despanan

Then you're an asshole who does a disservice to his own faith and his fellow man. If you believe that your faith is the one true faith (as all normative Catholics must) and you believe that those who don't subscribe to that faith are going to hell (as all normative Catholics must) and you DON'T tell someone this because you want to maintain your liberal street cred/avoid a confrontation, then you're the worst kind of an asshole. this is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT Sternn.

Not at all. Do you really think if in every conversation I had with a non-Catholic if I told them they were sinners and going to hell, people would talk to me? Your assertion I have to inform everyone around me that they are sinners and attack them personally is silly.

Besides, at the end of the day maybe that is God's little joke on the universe.

Maybe religion is like a restaurant. You have wait staff, bartenders, cooks, managers, hosts, etc.

We all have a different role to play, a different path to follow, but it all leads to the same overall goal. Once and a while the wait staff gets pissed off with the bar staff anfd sparks fly, but everyone has to work together to accomplish their own goals.

Either way this thread is not about me, but I again am flattered everyone has decided to take a personal interest in my religious views, although I do seem to notice the usual suspects out with their religion bashing. That's fine, you have your opinion and as I stated previously, you are entitled to it. See, thats how I feel about people with a different opinion on relgion. I don't feel it is my place to spend a whole post or multiple posts telling you all you are going to hell, as it will accomplish nothing and serves no other purpose than starting a flamewar that will have no end. There is a time and place for everything, and this thread is not an appropriate place for debating it sure.

Besdies, you do have to realise the one topic that any first year debate team member can tell you is an impossible topic to debate or win a debate on is religion.

So back on the topic of murder, Vincent Browne is a reporter here in Ireland who is well known for his investigative reporting. He broke many scandals, including the last one that sank Bertie. He now has a panel style talk show where he has five guests who discuss a topic.

The topic Wednesday night - why has Ireland not condemned the killing as it was illegal on many levels, a view shared by a large portion of our country and a theme which has resounded throughout the papers, tv, and other media outlets here.

Dunno if you can view it outside of Ireland, I would say you could but have never tried, but here is the episode in full.

http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=...=0&video=35418

[erotomaniac87]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

That we was buried at sea may be talked about for decades but by people with the same level of intelligence as the birthers or by the same ones with a hidden agenda as the birthers. And the President didn't make his speech until they had DNA confirmation.

He was buried at sea because that was Muslim tradition, and so it was the traditional way to dispose of his body, not out of respect for him but respect for our Muslim allies. There is some wisdom there.In regards to celebration: yes, war is a real bummer, and if one traces history, Bin Laden's actions have their roots in Big Oil providing a "royal family" the means to hold power over the will of the people, but one must also remember that instead of trying to win the hearts of the world, Bin Laden chose to murder innocent civilian men, women and children on passenger jets and on the ground. The people rejoice when justice against a grave crime is done.

Perhaps Bin Laden thought that the only way to get the world's attention was by a heinous and violent act, but he would have been more appreciated by the world committing violence against himself with the same example of a Tibetan Monk than to slaughter innocents. The way he ultimately decided to wage war is similar to Hitler: in the end triggering a war that killed many more innocents as well as soldiers.

And lastly, to address Christian's reaction to Bin Laden's killing: in the holy Qu'ran, chapter Surah Al-Baqarah 2:191, here is what Islam says about it:

"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid ... you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers ... "

Yes, the bible contains instructions to kill too. Both books are reflections of the minds of men. Both are imperfect and inconsistent and very violent.

Would Jesus have rebuked Huckabee? Sure, but that is easy pickin's as ANY politician is hardly Christian!

Where you are leading Captain is ultimately the death penalty, and death has been sanctioned as punishment/justice for thousands of years. But I can easily see that you are against the death penalty too. There is valid reason to doubt capital punishment because of the innocent who have been executed, but that is a topic for a different thread.

True. Islamic traditions do call for a burial within 24 hours of death, but not necessarily at sea. According to various news sources, Bin Laden was buried at Sea because it would've been difficult to find a country willing to bury the body. Also, it has also been stated that there's a rumor that the U.S. asked Saudi Arabia, country where Bin Laden was born, to take the body, but refused. It was then agreed upon that the body was going to be buried at sea, and not given a proper grave site out of fear that it would eventually become a worshipping site to Bin Laden's followers.