Christianity... - Page 6

NME · 11-12-2006, 12:48 AM

Job didn't falter because he was on his path, and he knew it.

What evidence do you have to disprove me? You see, this would lead into an endless circle of debate. We both believe differently, so of course we're both right. Therefore, ther other is wrong. But if the other is wrong, yet, we're both right...

Let's just say, you believe as you do, I believe as I do, and neither of us is wrong. After all, neither of us can prove it. Or disprove it.

c130 · 11-12-2006, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Again

If you feel empty, depressed, etc. that's usually a sign from God that you're not, well, following your given path.

No, it's a sign you've got social problems to work out, or you've got a natural chemical imbalance in your brain. God doesn't have anything to do with it.

Born Again · 11-12-2006, 04:03 AM

God doesn't have anything to do with it? If you are a Christian, stop and think about that for a minute.

God has everything to do with EVERYTHING in your life, no matter if its positive or negative.

There is a reason for everything that happens, a person could be experiencing these things because God is either making them stronger, testing their faith, or as I already stated, telling them they need to get back on track; "this isn't the life I had planned for you, go my way, you will be much more satisfied."

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 11-12-2006, 05:58 AM

Well, not all of us are Christian now are we??? I didn't think so. When I felt empty, lost, depressed, etc. it meant I had manic depression and I needed help, which I got and now I am fine. I can firmly say, I don't believe in "God," and I don't think "He" has anything to do with what's going on in my life.

Delkaetre · 11-12-2006, 07:13 AM

I tend not to trust the idea of god using such subtle suggestions to us, I'm afraid. There are several issues which come to mind, but here is one-
The fundamentalist anti-homosexual idea suggests that homosexuals are wrong. There are, therefore, 'De-gay' camps available in many areas of America, which concerned fundamentalist parents send their children to, in the hope that the children will become 'good Christians'- drop their homosexual tendencies and become straight and 'pure'. Now, the young adults in question, after going through one of these camps, often end up in a horrible situation. They are Christian, and have had it reinforced over and over that their sexual tendencies are sinful and will ultimately send them to hell. So they try to suppress them- which leads to depression and denial, and frequently to mental illness. Or, they try to return to their old lifestyle and continue to date same-sex, in which case many of them feel crippling guilt about doing a sinful thing- it's been hammered into them, and it's very difficult to get something like that out of your system.
The depression they suffer doesn't seem to be god's message that they're doing something wrong, as doing the 'right' or 'wrong' thing often leads to the same issues and problems either way. The depression, I would say, is caused simply by pressure and manipulation, and the creation of a false guilt-complex. In which case, it's the fault of the parents, and of those who run the 'de-gay' programs for creating the complex. And if they're the ones who did wrong, why is the young adult the one suffering?

If anyone wishes information and sources, please let me know and I'll happily go find the sites again. I'm afraid I don't have the links immediately to hand.

Crying_Crimson_Tears · 11-12-2006, 08:41 AM

I must say, I am not a completely prejudice person. But when it comes to religion, I am very prejudice towards those who try to inforce their ideas on those who don't believe, and think they are right in every single way because they believe in God. It annoys me when people do that. And the people who send their children to those camps to me are horrendous people, and I must say, no better than Hitler. I am not all opposed to religion, don't get me wrong, but for those who hurt others because they believe God is the answer to everything, I am opposed.

c130 · 11-12-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Again

God doesn't have anything to do with it? If you are a Christian, stop and think about that for a minute.

God has everything to do with EVERYTHING in your life, no matter if its positive or negative.

There is a reason for everything that happens, a person could be experiencing these things because God is either making them stronger, testing their faith, or as I already stated, telling them they need to get back on track; "this isn't the life I had planned for you, go my way, you will be much more satisfied."

When science, medicine or psychology can explain something, I don't look to a man in the sky to explain it.

The wheat didn't grow this year! It's the Flying Spaghetti Monster's will! It definitely had nothing to do with a pH imbalance in the soil caused by bad crop rotation.

Godslayer Jillian · 11-12-2006, 11:55 AM

Well, can science explain the origin of everything? Even with the Big Bang, can you tell me where did that come from? With the knowledge that the elements in aminoacids are more susceptible to react with other elements than amongst each other, can you tell me how could they have been created?
And again, just because you don't like something in a religion (e.g. their view on homosexuals) doesn't make their religion wrong.
And lastly:
"What evidence do you have to disprove me?"
I have the card that you lack any evidence of this. Isn't that what we do with Christianity?
Yet, there's much more evidence about Christianity being right than this new-age view.
Just think of this: How can all paths be right when they contradict each other?
Buddha rejected love saying it only leads to suffering, while Jesus preached love.
And none has still told me why shouldn't I believe what the only person that has Resurrected on his own accord has to say about the afterlife.

c130 · 11-12-2006, 01:07 PM

Just because we don't know something yet doesn't mean we should explain it away by using a cover-all God. Before we knew about viruses and bacteria, if someone became ill, it was assumed that God was punishing them. Before we knew how lightning happens, it was assumed that an angry God was hurling bolts down. IMO it's just as naive to assume that God created the universe simply because we can't yet work out how it began. Maybe we'll never be able to work out how it began since we're on the other side of that particular horizon, but that's still no reason to use it as evidence of a God's existence or intervention.

Draconysius · 11-12-2006, 01:36 PM

In my opinion, the questions of God, morality, and free will are all unknowable. There's the problem of duality, realism, and perspective which get in the way of knowing just about anything for certain.

Born Again · 11-12-2006, 01:55 PM

I apologize if I sounded too preachy.

No one is going to believe the same thing....that's pretty obvious.

DarkHeartedDemoness · 11-12-2006, 02:22 PM

Absolutely-- but your above statement didn't make it clear that you were aware of that. Thank you for clarifying.

Born Again · 11-12-2006, 03:01 PM

Religion is such a touchy subject. It's supposed to be a beautiful and sacred thing.....so how did thousands of years of blood shed come into being over a "supposedly" good cause.

c130 · 11-12-2006, 04:14 PM

Because every religion likes to think it's the right one and can't stand being challenged by another.

Born Again · 11-12-2006, 04:45 PM

Yet each religion preaches forgiveness and to love your "brother."

Godslayer Jillian · 11-12-2006, 05:19 PM

Not all of them.
Anyway, on the subject of the cruelty in the Church's history; I don't like people that bring the Crusades and Inquisition "to the light".
I have a news for you: even christians know about these. But guess what too; the Christians you are giving this piece of information didn't commit these atrocities.
Obviously not big fans of Gandhi, huh?
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
He never said anything about Christianity; maybe he did not like the so-called Christians, but in no place did he equate the ideal to its followers.

Born Again · 11-12-2006, 06:03 PM

I agree with you,

That makes perfect sense.

Christianity isn't responsible for the sin that it's followers commit. I must learn to separate the religion or "idea" from the one's who interpret it, the followers.

Sometimes the mind gets so focused on other's faults, it tends to ignore it's own.

We're all hypocrites in one way or another.

CptSternn · 11-13-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Well, can science explain the origin of everything? Even with the Big Bang, can you tell me where did that come from? With the knowledge that the elements in aminoacids are more susceptible to react with other elements than amongst each other, can you tell me how could they have been created?

Tis a point I make often. I mean, the Bible is chock full of colourful representations. Not to start quoting scripture here, but in every storey there is always something like 'the beast with 9 heads, and each head represented...' or 'the land in the storey represented...'

So why is it when God said let there be light, he wasn't making a reference to the occurance of 'The Big Bang'? When it was written 'and then he created animals' - its not too specific. How can one say God did not set evolution rolling to create those said animals. To try and interpret some parts as analogy and others as direct meaning seems to be ignorant.

Same with miracles. Many now say these can be explained through natural phenomenon. Of course that doesn't mean that a higher power, in this case God, may have caused that occurance of the phenomenon at that exact moment does it?

Science doesn't disprove religion, nor does it contradict it - contrary to what many would have you believe. I think its perfectly feasible for both to co-exist in the same realm.

DarkHeartedDemoness · 11-13-2006, 07:49 AM

I hate to say this, but I have to agree with the captain. I firmly believe (despite the fact that I'm not a Christian) that many of the things written in the Bible are metaphors. That is to say, evolution is quite possible because the 6 days in which "God created the world" were not meant to be taken as 6 periods of 24 hours.

I feel like most religions require intelligence, open-mindedness, and analysis in order to be understood. That's why so much conflict has occured, and why so many terrible things are done in the name of religion. Most followers follow blindly, without studying their religious texts or thinking about their possible meanings, other than the literal meaning.

xxkissxmexgoodbye · 11-13-2006, 10:20 AM

well i have been told that i guess since i am a christian that i should not even be here... i am a really accepting person and really could careless what kind of person you are... i think that it shows how immature you are if you make fun of someone for being a christian or give them a hard time for being a christian on a gothic website... i am not gothic, but just because you are a goth doesn't mean that you have to be satantic... i know tons of really sweet guys that are hardcore goth and are also hardcore christians... there is nothing wrong with that. they work in hot topic and well... damn they're lucky... heh... i would love a job there its just.. i don't drive... well see you homies later... tell me what you think about what i said i guess.. wow i sound retarted

NME · 11-13-2006, 01:27 PM

Of course the Bible is metaphorical. There's no way it can be taken literally. For one, the Book of Genesis has two different stories of Creation, with events occuring in different orders. (Genesis 1 has God create plants, then fish, then land animals, then humans. Genesis 2 has God create plants, then humans, then all other animals.) It kinda doesn't agree with itself if taken literally.

Then there's the fact that in the NT Jesus always taught in parables, and made it clear that he was doing exactly that. Why should we think that the men who wrote the NT, who were (supposedly) trying to be like Jesus, would do things totally different from him?

DarkHeartedDemoness · 11-13-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkissxmexgoodbye

well i have been told that i guess since i am a christian that i should not even be here... i am a really accepting person and really could careless what kind of person you are... i think that it shows how immature you are if you make fun of someone for being a christian or give them a hard time for being a christian on a gothic website... i am not gothic, but just because you are a goth doesn't mean that you have to be satantic... i know tons of really sweet guys that are hardcore goth and are also hardcore christians... there is nothing wrong with that. they work in hot topic and well... damn they're lucky... heh... i would love a job there its just.. i don't drive... well see you homies later... tell me what you think about what i said i guess.. wow i sound retarted

Who said that? Show me where it says that a Christian shouldn't belong to a goth website.

knightmare · 11-13-2006, 02:00 PM

"So, you're telling me this incredibly powerful God, who created the universe, matter, etc. couldn't predict that his own creation would have the chance to deviate, and that Satan (Who he also created), would tempt them?
Also, show me where in the scriptures it says he wasn't born capable to do evil."
Actually, God already knew that man was going to sin. It was part of His plan. God used Satan to cause the Fall of man; God was always in control. He created us for His glory; and obviously man choosing Him voluntarily over making man to choose Him gives Him greater glory. That is why He created free will. Also, God as perfect and holy is seen everywhere in Scripture. Just look at how the Israelites worshiped Him and based their religion on good works. Also, look at Romans, to find a clear statement if you need it.
Concerning the Flood, Show me then. "Give me evidence I can work with." How about The Ice Age?
Again, God can not bear sin, and He said that His creation was good in Genesis. "Where's corroborating evidence?" "Where's supporting logical arguments?" First, the religion based on God views sin as evil and emphasizes good works. If God could sin, the religion based on Him would condone evil. Concerning creation, I said just look at Genesis (chapter 1), and look at the complexity of the creation itself. It is highly ordered. Also, where do you think the concept of morality present in matter came from? God. If God did not view His creation as good, He could have easily destroyed it and created a new one.

Godslayer Jillian · 11-13-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightmare

Actually, God already knew that man was going to sin. It was part of His plan. God used Satan to cause the Fall of man; God was always in control.

I beg to differ in here. Well, I would disagree with all, of course; ya know with the not being Christian and all; but speaking with the voice of what I've been thought, I have to disagree that God used Satan to provoke the Fall. I think that saying God knew the Fall was inevitable would be a more appropriate explanation.

knightmare · 11-13-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I have to disagree that God used Satan to provoke the Fall. I think that saying God knew the Fall was inevitable would be a more appropriate explanation.

I agree with you in the point that God knew that the Fall of man was inevitable due to free will. But since man was perfect at that time, there had to be a source of evil to provoke them to sin as seen in the imagery of Genesis. Before the Fall, man could not choose sin by himself since he was made in God's perfect image. I think that Satan provoked them to eat the forbidden fruit. God wanted the Fall to occur. I think that they had a choice to obey God or to listen to Satan and disobey God out of their own will. There is no sin in God, so man did not have true free will, until the choice of evil was present.