A little Perspective

[Despanan]

Seeing as this forum gets so up in arms about the supposed "injustices" and "secret quasi-fascist" actions of the United States government, (Such as the horrible plot to turn our nations boy-scouts into stormtroopers by allowing them to play a teenage version of cops and robbers with airsoft guns.) I'd like to point out that yeah, in Iran you can be Jailed for a haircut

Iran bans Western haircuts, eyebrow plucking for men

April 29, 2007

Tehran, Iran (Reuters) — Iranian police have warned barbers against offering Western-style hair cuts or plucking the eyebrows of their male customers, Iranian media said Sunday.

The report by a reformist daily, later confirmed by an Iranian news agency, appeared to be another sign of authorities cracking down on clothing and other fashion deemed to be against Islamic values.

“Western hairstyles … have been banned,” the newspaper Etemad said in a front-page headline.

It came a week after police launched a crackdown against the growing number of young women testing the limits of the law with shorter, brighter and skimpier clothing ahead of the summer months…

Violators can receive lashes, fines and imprisonment.

The student news agency ISNA quoted a police statement as saying: “In an official order to barbershops, they have been warned to avoid using Western hair styles and doing men’s eyebrows.”

Iranian young men have in recent years started paying more attention to the way they look and dress, especially in affluent parts of the capital Tehran. Spiked up hair, by using gel, is known as the Khorusi (Rooster) style and some also use make-up.

Several hairdressers for men in Tehran offer cuts in the style of Hollywood movie stars and other Western celebrities. Clients can also have their eyebrows plucked.

The head of the barbers’ union, Mohammad Eftekharifard, said police had instructed it to “exercise specific regulations in barbershops that work under its supervision.”

Barbers who do not follow these rules might be closed down for a month and even lose their permits to operate, Etemad quoted him as saying.

“Currently some barbershops apply make-up and use (hair) styles that are in line with those in European countries and America,” Eftekharifard said.

He added: “An official order has been sent to the union … not to apply make-up on men’s faces (or) do eyebrows … and hence the barbers are not allowed to do these things.” …

Imagine, if you will, my fellow Goths, walking down the street, minding your own spooky business, when a handfull of cops grab you, slap hadcuffs around your wrists, and throw you in the back of a squad car. now imagine, back at the station, you're interrogated as to where you bought your face make-up and which barber gave you your deathhawk. Then you are fined twenty dollars (plus court costs) your head is shaved, you are stripped naked and your clothes are disposed of and replaced with something "more modest" (ie: gap clothes I suppose). Then your parents are called and you are released into their custody, with the promise of jail time on your next infraction. (Oh, and the cops probably track down your stylist and give him forty lashes for plucking your eyebrows.)

Sounds silly right? Sounds insane? Guess what it happened:

The Golestan shopping mall in northwestern Tehran is, like malls everywhere, a magnet for young guys who travel from all over the city to go shopping and hang out. In the courtyard outside the mall, there are six security guards keeping the peace in what appears to be a friendly setting. There’s no alcohol and no drugs, just Iranian youth sitting around sipping on freshly squeezed juice and watching girls walk by while playing with their hair. We asked them whether they’ve faced the wrath of the Basij, and a 16-year-old named Hameed told us that they are frequently harassed. “I was once arrested and taken to the Center for Combating Vice. They shaved my head, gave me a fine of 200,000 rials ($20), and called my parents to come pick me up. The police said next time they’ll throw me in jail!”

I am so goddamn sick of some of the more insane members hear, freaking out about perfectly innocent things and trying to spin them into radical, conspiracy theory-esque rantings about how evil and opressive the US government is, and all it's "secret plans" to bring us under it's shadowly dictatroial heel. The fact of the matter is that if the US government was the supra-powerful spectre of global domination that certain idiots make it out to be, certain idiots would be dead by now, and I wouldn't have to read their whiny, paranoid, posts or deal with their sense of first-world entitlement.

This has been a reality check with Despanan. I now return you to your regularly scheduled moping. Thank you.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Sternn will make some insane counterargument. Like how the scissors are of American manufacture and therefore the Americans are really the ones to blame or something.

[Despanan]

He'll probably say the Iranians are just defending their culture against Western Imperialism.

After all, the US has a slavish army of racist fourteen year olds trained with pellet guns.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Damn Americans, building malls in Iran...

[PortraitOfSanity]

And trying to kill them with unhealthy fast food restaurants!

[KontanKarite]

Kill whitey!!

[Despanan]

Chi wakanakwa!

[HavelockV]

Those heathen Americans and their decadant, materialistic, nonconformist Western ways!

By the by, Despanan, that was an excellent reality check, indeed. *hat tip*

[Despanan]

What the fuck Gothic.net? Where's the outrage? Where's the fucking posts telling Iran it is wrong? Where's the jaded sighs and the comments about how stupid and shortsighted the Iranian government is? I mean that's what you'd be doing if this was a thread about a Kid with a bad haircut getting thrown out of a boyscout meeting right? So where's the ire when someone is actually having their inalienable rights violated?

[gothicusmaximus]

Most people on gothic.net are from the US or UK, and therefore were brought up to expect that the governments thereof afford citizens basic human rights-- we're shocked and upset when presented with evidence to suggest the contrary. Conversely, we expect nations like Iran to be fucked up and backwards. You really don't understand that, Despanan?

[CptSternn]

Wow, you really took the words out of my mouth. Not exactly how I would have phrased it, but the concept is the same.

Muslim nations have issues with homosexuals. Muslim nations equate law and religion - theocracies abound. This shouldn't be that shocking, considering even countries America supports (like Qatar, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) all have similar laws in place and people there get the same treatment - the media ignores that and goes after countries that take the headlines like Iran.

I would also put forward that 'if' some American politicians could get away with it, they would implement the same laws in America.

Look at the gay marriage debate or th current debate on 'dont ask dont tell', better yet, you should see some of the youtube clips of various members of congress expressing their views on gays in general - their thoughts and ideas are not far off what the Iranians have in mind.

Sure in America they don't give lashes, fines, or imprison gays. They merely deny them medical care coverage, equal rights, and fire them from various jobs if they find out they are employed.

Thats much better, right?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Despanan

What the fuck Gothic.net? Where's the outrage? Where's the fucking posts telling Iran it is wrong? Where's the jaded sighs and the comments about how stupid and shortsighted the Iranian government is? I mean that's what you'd be doing if this was a thread about a Kid with a bad haircut getting thrown out of a boyscout meeting right? So where's the ire when someone is actually having their inalienable rights violated?

Eh.
First, no matter how much we want there to be, there's no such thing as "inalienable rights."
Second, there's no outrage because it's over hair.

If they start taking people off the streets and chopping men's balls or noses off, then maybe someone would be upset. But it's just hair.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Wow, you really took the words out of my mouth. Not exactly how I would have phrased it, but the concept is the same.

Muslim nations have issues with homosexuals. Muslim nations equate law and religion - theocracies abound. This shouldn't be that shocking, considering even countries America supports (like Qatar, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) all have similar laws in place and people there get the same treatment - the media ignores that and goes after countries that take the headlines like Iran.

I would also put forward that 'if' some American politicians could get away with it, they would implement the same laws in America.

Look at the gay marriage debate or th current debate on 'dont ask dont tell', better yet, you should see some of the youtube clips of various members of congress expressing their views on gays in general - their thoughts and ideas are not far off what the Iranians have in mind.

Sure in America they don't give lashes, fines, or imprison gays. They merely deny them medical care coverage, equal rights, and fire them from various jobs if they find out they are employed.

Thats much better, right?

It's better than doing all that AND shaving their heads.

PS--are you implying that everyone with that haircut is gay?

[CptSternn]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

It's better than doing all that AND shaving their heads.

PS--are you implying that everyone with that haircut is gay?

No, but the reason these rules were implemented is because of the gay undertones the religious leaders sensed.

I mean, lots of hair products? Eyebrow waxing? I don't think the Iranians are ready for metrosexuals yet.

All this talk reminded me I need to get my eyebrows done next week after I get my facial done.

[Despanan]

Yeah, judging by your haircut, you'd be immediately tackled by the vice police.

While gay undertones are probably a factor, I think this has more to do with preventing western influence and ideas. It's about control of the population. Afterall, as their president said, gays don't exist in Iran.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Despanan

What the fuck Gothic.net? Where's the outrage? Where's the fucking posts telling Iran it is wrong? Where's the jaded sighs and the comments about how stupid and shortsighted the Iranian government is?

You want us to repeat ourselves?

I mean that's what you'd be doing if this was a thread about a Kid with a bad haircut getting thrown out of a boyscout meeting right?

Not from me you wouldn't.

So where's the ire when someone is actually having their inalienable rights violated?

Since when is getting a haircut an inalienable right?

And rights are only as inalienable as the country that protects them.

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

First, no matter how much we want there to be, there's no such thing as "inalienable rights."

"...some rights, such as trial by jury, are social rights, arising neither from natural law nor from positive law but from the social contract from which a government derives its authority."

- James Madison, 4th. U.S. President

The idea of inalienable rights, the basic rights all people are assumed to have, is a construct designed to help maintain the fabric of our society. To say that they do not exist is to say that human beings are nothing more than animals. Yes, people can behave as animals do, living by the credo "might makes right", but they are also reasoned, artistic, philosophical beings capable of rational thought. As such, there is more at work in human society than base Darwinism. Humans can affect their own destinies; they are not slaves to chance.

And so it follows that human society is greater than the sum of its parts, not simply a herd comprised of a large group of animals. The inalienable rights implied by our social structure is simply, to use a Matrix reference: "the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation", a logical byproduct of that structure.


- Heretic

[HumanePain]

Even living is not an inalienable right. Ask an aborted fetus.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Eh.
First, no matter how much we want there to be, there's no such thing as "inalienable rights."
Second, there's no outrage because it's over hair.

If they start taking people off the streets and chopping men's balls or noses off, then maybe someone would be upset. But it's just hair.

Are you implying that Iranian police taking you to jail for a haircut is okay?

[Heretic]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Even living is not an inalienable right. Ask an aborted fetus.

That perspective is only one end of a long and varied spectrum. On the one hand, you have differences of opinion on what constitutes a human life. Should it be legal to take out a health insurance policy on a fetus, collecting millions if there is a miscarriage? How about getting a tax break for the fetus as a dependent? Should we charge Child Welfare services with prosecuting women who don't eat a healthy diet while pregnant for child endangerment? In the quest to protect the "rights of the unborn" presumed by some, should it be perfectly acceptable to trample over the rights women? Where is the line?

And on the other hand, do we have the right to die? What about dying on one's own terms as an inalienable right? Should people be obligated to live when they can no longer sustain themselves without the aid of (very expensive) machines? How about forcing the last months or years of someone's life to be lived in agony or without the use of their bodies? What about forcing those who have lost their mental faculties to live on, completely unaware of who they are?

At least an old man can be asked whether or not his life is worth continuing. Just as that fetus' mother has complete control over it's life, the loved one's of the elderly can overrule their wishes, even if those wishes have been legally recorded in a living will. In many ways, that unborn fetus has more "rights" than an Alzheimer's patient.


- Heretic

[JCC]

There is no such thing as an inalienable right. A right is something that somebody else has bestowed upon you, and can be taken just as quickly by those same people. Rights are simply privileges, and there's no such thing as an inalienable privilege.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Are you implying that Iranian police taking you to jail for a haircut is okay?

No, but it's nothing to freak out about when you consider all the other things worth freaking out about.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No, but it's nothing to freak out about when you consider all the other things worth freaking out about.

But no one was actually bursting into complete outrage over it.

I mean come on, this example is pretty ridiculous if you think about it.

Then again, every society has their way of regulating the way one looks. This one is just a bit more extreme than the others.

[Still Jack]

Haircuts are overrated.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Even living is not an inalienable right. Ask an aborted fetus.

Just because a right can be violated (and I'm not saying a fetus is alive, nor should that even be a part of this argument) doesn't negate the fact that it exists.

As for the existence of rights, Heretic pretty much summed up my views on that in his first post. Kudos dude.