Michael Moore: good or bad?

[HerGhostInTheFog]

I recently went to go see Farenheight 9/11. I was going to see it on the 4th, but there was way too much traffic to get ANYWHERE, so the farthest i went that day was to work and back. ANYWAYS. (sorry for the off-topic statement) I have been a fan of Michael for a while. I always have loved his informal movies and his odd sense of humor. I think Bowling for Columbine was lovely. It points out how ridiculous weapons can be. I love how he seems to care about the ignored people, and how he gets out and says something when it needs to be said. YES, FARENHEIGHT WAS ONE SIDED, BUT THE PUBLIC WAS ONE SIDED FOR A LONG TIME, ALSO. he was just contradicting the other side with "hey, not everyone thinks the war is good. Not everyone hates Iraq.I personally think that even if you disagree with him, he's hardly hurting anyone and he's using his freedom of speech right well.
-lidia

[edible_eye]

here's some more freedom of speech - he should have his head stomped repeatedly for being an offensive oaf.
f- fahrenheit 9/11.
spiderman 2 is all that matters.

- mark

[Zeade]

i think m.m. is a brilliant man, if i do say so myself... he shows what he thinks in his movies, and usually sticks up for the underdog of sorts.... i have yet to see his new movie, but i do hope to see it soon... (and i've read one of his books and it was so funny in parts... especially about the teenagers... i should go find that book again and post some of the comments on here... just for kicks, ya know)

[Moon_Creature]

Michael Moore is alright. I enjoyed "Bowling For Columbine" and I agree with alot he has to say. I am eager to see what the fuss is over "Farenheight 911".

[edible_eye]

it's the old shell game - rally against the man while you're raking in the dough. dude's got a large platform from which he's able to spout whatever garbage he comes up with, all the while showing horrific images to tug the heartstrings. manipulation 101.
it's always good to take in all sides of any controversial subject in order to come up withyour own opinion - hell, it's good to get all sides of any subject, period. moore's an entertainer, though - a la alec baldwin, susan sarandon, woody harrelson et al. personally, i'd like to have a bit more substance behind whatever i need to form an opinion.
i see michael moore as a topic to discuss after consuming many beers or maybe some whiskey - whatever's said should be forgotten soon after.

- mark

[MrMaelstrom]

MM (no kids, not Marylin Manson) is pretty funny and one-sided.
But at least, someone is for once, is being one-sided on the other plate of the scale, to try and counterbalance fascist idiots like fox news, the Bush administration and morons the likes of Edible eye.

Ofensive to whom? I'd really like to know. Fuckin' kids.

[edible_eye]

first of all, maelstrom - thanx for the welcome.
second - i'm older than you are - kid-dom has been left far behind.
third - do you usually use your mod status to attempt intimidation, or am i just special?
fourth - in a climate where it's "cool" to bash bush, he's merely cashing in and as long as there are gullible drones who salivate and throw cash at whomever plays the part of a rebel, he's laughing all the way to the bank.
fifth - all politicians suck. they all lie. they all do "stuff" that could be considered reprehensible. bush just happens to have a fan that makes movies.
sixth - he's offensive to me - as stated in my opinion. why? because he acts like he "knows" and when i hear him speak, it's obvious he's just another rhetorically-driven idiot. the stars in your eyes are touching though, maelstrom. you should write him a letter.

- mark

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by edible_eye

third - do you usually use your mod status to attempt intimidation, or am i just special?
- mark

Yeah, I'll jump on this bandwagon..Having had this same discussion not too long ago..Mael was talking purely refined smack laced heavily with creme' de sarcasm LONG BEFORE he was a mod, and it is my dying wish that he continue to do so until he is too old and diaper-ridden to type..

( We want Jpegs of that BTW)

Our job as moderators, as it has been so lovingly put before is that of Janitor. Not Gestapo, Not Man or uhh Woman of the Year..We're not trying to win any congeniality awards here and NONE OF US has EVER been accused of being shy or restrained..

We ALL like to express our opinions, and take great pride in doing so..

So suck it up and just roll with it ok?

It only hurts for a little while..


*hee*

:roll:

[edible_eye]

tstone -
right, left, up, down, in, out - whatever. i don't ascribe to any political party, platform, ideal, or anything else. to approach an argument with me on this basis falls outside the realm of effectiveness, if you're trying to direct a point at me. as soon as someone begins to regurgitate right-wing or left-wing agendas, my level of interest wanes for an agenda is an agenda, no matter how deeply one believes what one recites.
that said - politicians and celebrities work their magic through p.r. - whatever was said about how he fought to get the message out, i.e. - not changing his book, listening to librarians, blah, blah, blah. all sounds good for the underdog spirit, doesn't it? it's obvious he's a real american hero.
i don't trust either profession (politician or celebrity) at face value, and unfortunately, as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to distinguish between the two. both professions wear a ton of make up, fight like rabid dogs to keep their face in the media and sport huge bank accounts comprised of our money. yes, that's their job and if they do it well - they're rewarded. i don't fault them for it, that's just life. as far as me being resigned to "the continuation of them doing reprehensible stuff.", as you put it - i think that even when they're found responsible for actions that blatantly fuck the american populace, they're not held accountable - what incentive is there for change?
a slap on the wrist and a few shaking fingers on the news just doesn't cut it, in my mind, but i'm just one american citizen, barely a cog in the machine.
i love my country for what it represents - that doesn't mean i have to love the representatives of my country. that goes for bush, kerry, cheney, edwards, kennedy, or whomever you throw into the mix. does this mean that every politician is a piece of shit? no, of course not - but i'll be damned if i'll accept any of them without doing some research first. i don't consider michael moore to be research, accurate, factual, et al - the same as i'd say about rush limbaugh or anyone else that has (yet again) an agnda to spew.
does that mean he shouldn't have a voice? no.
does that mean he shouldn't make a movie? no.
does that mean i resent the fact he has freedom of speech? no.
does all this long-winded hullabaloo mean he's nothing but a bag of hot air? i'd say that's something worth considering.
that's all.

as far as the mod comment - i find a couple of things interesting.
the first is - if one is a moderator or overseer of a group of people (mrmaelstrom), and the first time he or she interacts with a new person in the group (edible_eye), how could one not expect retaliation when said moderator has used words like "fascist idiots" and "morons" while addressing the new member? he's a moderator, what's the shame in pointing that out? as far as i'm concerned, that's someone outright baring teeth and clenching fists. everyone's entitled to an opinion, of course - but expect to back yourself up if all you can do is sling ames at whomever you decide to address. that's not an opinion, that's a challenge.
second - i find it curious you want to contribute "without getting Mael’s dick in my mouth (gag)". of course, you've been here longer than i, so you might have a friendly relationship with maelstrom and not want to get on his bad side. i don't know if that's the truth, but i would understand that.

enough. i've already wasted enough of my and anyone else's time who suffered through this. hopefully, whomever saw this post had enough sense to skip it. fuck michael moore and anyone else who tries to paint themself as a voice for the people. some of us would like to speak for ourself.

- mark

[edible_eye]

empty -
i've read many of your posts and you're anything but.
i don't suck anything up, tried once and it left a bad taste in my mouth. yes, i realize i just opened myself up for whatever comments might come as a result, but the bottom line is - i refuse to let anyone walk on me due to title or perceived status.
whatever the understood role of moderator might be, it's not (in my opinion) to spit ugly names at someone and believe the discussion is therefore ended.
i think you pegged it perfectly when you requested another jpeg from maelstrom. he's good at that. maybe he can beg for a few more compliments...

disclaimer - i didn't come here looking for a fight, but i'm perfectly happy accepting one.

- mark

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

I felt the need to prance down mammary lane..

Anyone else remember this uhh pearl of Mael Modesty??

*Hee*

:roll:

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

You are Form 69, The Smug Bastard on Gothic.net: The Ranter. "And The Smug Bastard was all that remained standing amongst the rubble of the argument. He attempted to regrow logic from empty-headed posts of others. But as he was about to give the breath of life to a thread, Flemco came along, flamed it to smithereens, and thus the cycle began again." Some examples of The Smug Bastard Form are Andrew Eldritch(Sisters) and Siouxie(Banshees). The Smug Bastard is associated with the concept of death of a thread, the number 69, and the element of fire(flame). His sign is the Comet. As a member of Form 69, you are a very egotistical cunt who thinks the Sun shines out of your arse (and being a cunt, it's right next door). You may be a little bit of a rambler, but you are very self-delusional and would never guess it. You realize that not everything lasts, but you savor every minute of the good flame wars. While you may sometimes find yourself lonely, you have strong ties with people that will never be broken(never underestimate the hatred of others). Smug Bastards are the best friends to have because they'll be bitching your arse
if they're not your friends.

Yes, Yes, I do keep EVERYTHING!!

:P

[edible_eye]

um... i think i did address what he said.
nobody hurt my feelings (spare me the fuckin' drama), i just felt he was using his position to talk down to me and again - i don't play that game. i have no idea who he is, he has no idea who i am - anyone who starts a discussion off with someone he or she doesn't know with a bunch of name-calling owes such behavior to one thing - a weak command of language.
for someone who doesn't wnt to defend someone else, you're doing a bang up job. how do those balls taste?

- mark

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Do I Pop popcorn?

Roast Marshmellows?

OR get a mop for the blood?

Hmm damn the decisions...


:shock:

Uhh can't we all just get a bong?

I mean uhh along...

:roll:

Ok fuck it, I'm getting the mop!

[edible_eye]

if you're planning on getting a bong - please bring the popcorn and marshmallows, or at the very least let me know what you don't have so i can help provide a few munchies.
fair 'nuff?

- mark

[edible_eye]

on a lighter note, i achieved the title of - mopeygoth - tonight. (insert the sound of one-hand clapping here).

- mark

[.BatteryPoison.]

People will believe almost anything, depending on how you package what you're showing them. Case in point; Orson Welles' radio broadcast way back when. More than half the nation thought we were being attacked by aliens because the broadcast sounded like a new program. Tons of people today are walking out of the theater with their mind set on voting for Kerry because they thought they saw a documentary.

Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. Documentaries show both sides. Moore edits out the other. If you listen to the people on CBS who were interviewed in his film, they're constantly saying, "Well, he asked me that question but my answer didn't appear in the film because he didn't like it." If there's something profound that he films the otherside saying, it won't appear in his movie because then his enemy won't appear as dumb and stupid as they are made to (he'll only take the clips of them shooting themselves in the foot). You'd be amazed at how many times in the filming process, the people that Moore interviews end up leaving the guy speechless when they say something that totally crushes his point.

I don't mind so much Moore and his points as much as I do the fact that he, and other media, classify his films as "documentaries." They're anything but, yet the guy gets awards for "Best Documentary" and that really irkes me because it's decieving. Moore's nothing more than the guy in the office who sparks an argument every five seconds about politics. He's just that guy with a film camera and a loud speaker.

I won't pay to see his film, but I will pay to see the supposed documentary on whether or not Micheal Moores arguments and views are valid which is due to come out here soon.

[edible_eye]

shaking in my boots, t. just... shaking in my boots.
sigh.
what exactly did you "try to warn me about", oh gallant knight? keep your warnings, t and whatever other thoughts about how i should act while i'm here. what is this? a board of dictators?
maelstrom bashes me from step one and now YOU are trying to tell me about how i'm SUPPOSED to act? i don't need your endorsement, nor do i need for you to think of me as "an ok guy". i'm not - neither for you nor for anyone else that wants to start shit with me and then backpedal, hold up their hands and say - "oh, you're just not cool enough to interact with people here. your behavior, talking back when maelstrom calls you a fascist idiot and a moron, is just another example of your un-coolness.". get a grip. oh wait, are those hearts floating over your head while you're looking at your "turbulent" buddy? interesting.
i've never met you before stopping in here - you made that clear enough earlier - and in that vein, your opinion means shit to me regarding my behavior.
as far as your opinion on "You’re liberal use of words without a fucking clue as to what you were talking about." - first of all, it's 'your', not 'you're'. second, the clarity of my words rings fairly clear, i think. if you don't, go back to night school and take english 101.
ignorance? not hardly. i know when someone sticks their finger in my face, thinking that's the end of a fight. it's not. fuck the moderator status, if that reference keeps getting your panties in a bunch. bottom line - maelstrom referred to me as a fascist idiot and a moron. fuck him for being so glib with his use of inflammatory words and fuck you for telling me to take it. other than that, he didn't reduce anything with his five sentence response aside from the quality of debate.
i've read many posts on this board, yes. i've read many posted by "the chicky's" - especially if a picture accompanies. it's a flaw of my being a man. what? it's a crime to be "fond of" chicky's? maybe between you and maelstrom, but not in my world. i just got here, t. as in - maybe 5 days ago. excuse me for not being as well versed in gothic.net etiquette as you may be. it takes some people a little while to get a feel for the landscape. and yes, i've read replies by maelstrom - what do any of them have to do with what he said here when he blatantly pointed a finger at me and called me a "moron"? are you insane?
by the way - since you were so offended with the perception of me taking only a single sentence from your posts and jumping on it - i'm trying to behave better for you and tear the whole fuckin' thing up. if you felt "baited", blame yourself, not me. i'm not responsible for what you do. fair 'nuff? oh, and by the way - fuck you and anyone else who tells me how i'm supposed to behave. been there, done that in life already. don't need to do it anymore. end of story. amen. thank you.
next, don't give me "more benefit than i deserve". don't give me anything. i work for a living. keep your charity for someone who needs it.
getting to the end here - i guess i could say i'm happy for you that you enjoy maelstrom's balls, but i'm not. that's really private info. and i don't need the details. i've sampled nothing from him other than a bunch of words from the past (earlier posts) and five sentences directed at "fascist idiots like fox news, the Bush administration and morons the likes of Edible eye."
oh, that's right. he's allowed to say stuff like that, according to you. and my behavior is bad, because i reacted, according to you. there are quite a few parameters of interaction i need to learn, according to you.
your argument is weak because you argue for someone else. take care of yourself, t. in the end, you're all you got.
whatever.
maybe that's not allowed on this board, either - according to you.

- mark

[edible_eye]

by the way, battery -
excellent words.
personally, i'll probably rent the movie when it comes out on dvd, just to get one side - there's no way i'm gonna pay full price. i'd rather go to taco bell the night i rent it with the money i save.
you said it better than i - "Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. Documentaries show both sides. Moore edits out the other."
clean, crisp, concise.

- mark

[Jane13]

I think Moore's films are interesting, and I like them, although he is incredibly extreme and I can't help but laugh at some of the content in his films. In my opinion his best film was "Roger and Me". I think it was better because it had a little less yelling, and the points he made were a little more coherant.

[ogre1971]

I find it amusing the cheap shots one takes at a person. MOD? Cash in? Isn't that a friggin cop out? Lets discuss what really matters. After all, cashing in. Wouldn't you? Money is money, and no one attacks bush on the level MM does unless it's something his heart is into. Alot of people attack Bush because it's trendy to believe it's gas motivated. It's a little more indepth than that. If I had MM's talent. You bet your friggin a$$ I'd do what he does and make cash doing it. After all, when will be a persons next chance to find a more stupid president to clown on? Try to Imagine how Bush Sr. Feels about all the crap going on. If you watch the movie, you can't say the entire thing is BS. I'm surprised the blacks in FL, didn't go riot. Imagine if that happened to the blacks in LA! That might of been worse than a few Plane hijackings.

[MrMaelstrom]

I actually thought of apologizing for coming in with a one sided view myself and an insult to boot from the word go. It wasn't something I should be to proud of, especially with the added "responsibility" of being a mod here.

Thing is, I really don't see anything on my message that suggests I behaved as anything other than an ordinary, regular arsehole. Nothing that suggests my views are balanced and right because I'm a mod and can shov'em down anyone's throat.

You just assumed it on your own and "lost face" as the chinese say. And the odds were on you at 1st.

No one here sucks up to me, and I'm put in my place by anyone who makes a point and proves me to be an idiot, no matter how long he/she/it has been around. So you lost the only thing you had going: me being insulting.

Does that excuse me from doing my moral bit and apologize?

No!




But fuck it. Somehow, I just don't feel like it anymore. Weaselboy is higher on the food chain than I. You should probably send him a private message and complain to him about it.

Originally Posted by edible_eye

by the way, battery -
excellent words. Documentaries show both sides. Moore edits out the other."
clean, crisp, concise. - mark

Instead of getting your undies in a twist and dish out long winded justifications to your previous words, you might have tried some of that first.

Welcome aboard by the way, enjoy your stay.

[Panther]

Heh.

Seems edible eye thinks he's Michael Moore now. Fighting the power which is restraining him. Making his point loudly, and, as was pointed out by 'bush' showing only one side of the arguement.

And we all think he's a jackass.

but yeah, Michael Moore's pretty cool. He has my respect.

[edible_eye]

ah. the instigator returns.
most of what has been written since you smacked down your insults belongs to tstone. but since you're back now - thanx for the official welcome.
i neither want nor need an apology. it'd be just as empty as the initial post you directed so sweetly in my direction. as long as i understand this was where it came from - "Thing is, I really don't see anything on my message that suggests I behaved as anything other than an ordinary, regular arsehole.", it puts everything into perspective. one thing - i assumed nothing in terms of your responsibility as a mod. what i did do was to take what you said, someone i'd never met before - and a moderator to boot - and voice my confusion as to why you slammed me, personally. i like to beat things i don't understand. it's a flaw of mine, i think - but i do admit it and from what i understand, that's the beginning of rectifying the problem. now that you've identified yourself as an "arsehole", i understand.
and for the record, i'm not now, nor was i ever complaining. i was calling you out to explain yourself. that's it. you did. no more problem.

back to michael moore? bloated sack of fetid air.

ok. i'm heading out to see spiderman 2. then, it's off to the club for some drinks and maybe i'll stagger home and check the board later. have a wonderful night, all.

- mark

[ohthefuckwell]

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

No one here sucks up to me, and I'm put in my place by anyone who makes a point and proves me to be an idiot, no matter how long he/she/it has been around.

*nods*

ayep.....i've put mael in his place several times....




oh. wait. that's not how he meant it.


uhhhhh.....never mind.

[edible_eye]

oh, and panther - eat your mom's ass. i did. tasted all right.

- mark