France and the EU

[Binkie]

Yes, you can go make a new thread entitled "US worse than Soviet Union" and we'll destroy your arguement. But try to stick to the topic of your own thread here.

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Start a new thread if you want, but we are discussing the EU Constitution here.

No, the rest of us don't start five new threads a day. If one were concerned about gothic's storage space, as earlier feigned, one would not do that.

[illuminatti]

well, looks like many of you don't know much about the soviet union...no offence. Stalin....yes, he wasn't exacly a very ceorrect politician. Yes, he made a police-country out of Russia for a while, but if you compare the way the people in Russia are living now and the way they lived during the Soviet Union, you would see that during the comunist time the people had more money (not alot, true) and the COUNTRY had more money and power. Even if there weren't as many human rights and so forth in Russia as in America, at least Russia was then strong enough and progressing enough to compete witht he US. I am not saying we need another terrorising regeme in Europe to make it capable to oppose the US, but i am saying that ANOTHER way must be found to make a power that could control the actions of the US.

It is surprising to me how so many people know SO little about Russia.

[edible_eye]

what? you think that what you just outlined up there /\ qualifies as a behind-the-scenes history lesson?

are you all right?

[illuminatti]

Originally Posted by edible_eye

what? you think that what you just outlined up there /\ qualifies as a behind-the-scenes history lesson?

are you all right?

no i do NOT think that that was a behind-the-scenes history lesson.

and yes, i am absolutely all right.

I was just underlining a well-known but for some reason ignored fact that Soviet Russia was not such a bad thing...it got screwed up a bit in the begining with all the terror and killing but in the end brought alot for Russia. Do you know any revolution that had not been bloody?
I get really pissed when people imediately skip to talking about Stalin and his killings whenever they hear the word "Soviet Union". And as to the killing of thousands of people...well, which country hasn't done that at some point in history?
All the information people have about Russia is extremely exagerated, especialy about the cold war, when no one even knew exactly what was going on there...now people know but still stick to the old inacurate facts. Idiot books like "Animal FArm" and politicians that were afraid of Russia inplanted this one-sided idea about Russia into the heads of people and it is still there.

And, gaddamnit, i am not trying to give a history lesson! I am pissed at how easily people believe stories like "Soviet Union is BAD". And i don't even know how it came to talking about the Soviet Union's INNER politics when I just said about it being a power capable of withsanding the US in the cold war.

[AlKilyu]

Alright...which one of you is pretending to be this guy? No way any one person is this stupid...okay joke's up...who is pretending to be ignorant here?

[illuminatti]

Not again...."ignorant" is the typical word for trying to shut some one up. Well if you are calling ME ignorant then listen up: I was born in Russia. My granparents and parents lived during the communist time. And I have also lived in America...and i know just how much accurate information managed to get there. This is an impossible topic to argue about with people who have heard only such versions about the Soviet Union. I am not trying to be a patriot...I am just pissed at seeing the same thing repeat itself over and over again with different people.
I mean...comparing Stalin with Hitler...please! I didn't want to go into this but look, America has hardly been an angel either. The Americans just never had any serious wars on their own land. All they can do is throw bombs on other countries with "happy easter" writen on them and whipe those countries off the face of the Earth...just because they CAN. Go on and call me ignorant. I will, of course, not contradict all that they told you in histroy about the Soviet Union. It's only strange how the information got fixed in your brains more from movies and stereotyped ideas. You can't look one-sidedly at everything. This is "Good" and this "Dad". Damn it, I'm out of here.

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by illuminatti

Damn it, I'm out of here.

Dude I hope you are telling the truth. I hope you crawl back in your coffin and never return to this place.

[illuminatti]

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Dude I hope you are telling the truth. I hope you crawl back in your coffin and never return to this place.

i am a girl, by the way.

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by illuminatti

Go on and call me ignorant.

Consider it done.

Oh and I'll add "douchebag" on for free. Your welcome.

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by illuminatti

i am a girl, by the way.

That matters.

Now take the hint first given to you by Teapotscar when you first joined and fuck off.

[CptSternn]

Illy - Pay no attention to that whack job. He has never gone farther than his backyard, and will never see the outside of his own country. He like most yanks in this thread, for some reason think they know everything there is to know about other countries just because they have web access.

First, I think its funny that the us has given up so many rights and allowed themselves to be pushed into a police state where you are forced to carry papers at all times, get retina scans at the airport, and have everything bought marked and catalogued in the governments super computer. I mean, modern day america reeks of the worst parts of the former communist regime, at least the parts the us hyped and claimed was the reason the cold war was fought. Well, guess what? The us regime is now worse. As the old saying goes, those who live in glass houses...

I'd say bush is more like hitler than stalin ever was. I could go into details for hours, but the ironic thing is in no less than 3 speeches bush has quoted stalin and hitler (either your with us or against us, gotta break a few eggs to make ommlettes, etc).


Slán

[Granny-like_the_apple]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

First, I think its funny that the us has given up so many rights and allowed themselves to be pushed into a police state where you are forced to carry papers at all times, get retina scans at the airport, and have everything bought marked and catalogued in the governments super computer.

Who the hell have you been talking to? Seriously, where did you get these ideas?

Retina scans: um, nope.
Carry papers at all times: don't know what you're talking about.
The government recording in a big scary computer that I bought ten packs of gum yesterday: ridiculous.

And I LIVE in the US, so don't try to argue with me. I obviously know better than you do about my own country.

[CptSternn]

Granny - you livin' in a bubble too?

First, retina scans, now forced on all non-american citizens enter the country at most every major airport. Mates in boston went through them last week. Also, americans who have been living abroad, or fall into a 'hi risk' category also have to subject themselves to retina scans, or not enter the country.

Iris Scanning To Begin At Orlando International Airport

http://www.local6.com/news/4479554/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Florida's busiest airport will begin using high-tech iris-scanning technology to filter out possible terrorists and add an additional layer of security, according to Local 6 News.


Iris scans take off at airports

http://www.computerworld.com/securit...,47202,00.html

(COMPUTERWORLD) - In one of the first public applications of eye-scanning technology, two airports this week will begin scanning passengers' irises as part of an effort to streamline boarding and security processes.


Second, lets look at the papers you are required to carry. You cannot travel to the store from your home in the united states without id now - its illegal. Also, to book a flight, get on a bus, or ride a train, you must be subjected to a back ground check along with be entered into a database.

http://cryptome.org/freetotravel.htm

AIR TRAVELER ID REQUIREMENT CHALLENGED

Secret rule demanding 'Your Papers Please' claimed unconstitutional
San Francisco - Civil libertarian John Gilmore today challenged as unconstitutional a secret federal rule that requires domestic US travelers to identify themselves.

"United States courts have recognized for more than a century that honest citizens have the right to travel throughout America without government restrictions. Some people say that everything changed on 9/11, but patriots have stood by our Constitution through centuries of conflict and uncertainty. Any government that tracks its citizens' movements and associations, or restricts their travel using secret decrees, is violating that Constitution," said Gilmore. "With this case, I hope to redirect government anti-terrorism efforts away from intrusive yet useless measures such as ID checks, confiscation of tweezers, and database surveillance of every traveler's life."

Here is Gilmores personal site with more info on his case...

http://www.papersplease.org/gilmore/facts.html

But more importantly you will have your Real ID soon, catalogued, numbered, and chocked full of your personal info including retina scan and other biometric information

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+...?tag=nefd.lede


And yes, the TIA system, which once again has got a new name, is also including info from those frequent shopper cards, so the government knows what your buying.

Just a heads up to things happening in your country today.

Slán

[tekajo]

Why did i expect to see information on the EU when i clicked this?

Since i'm here, i'll chime in on Sternn's version of the Thread Topic.

Such a one track mind, you see conspiracies and the making of a police state, i see security measures that should be put in place. If tracking everyone will ultimately secure our nation so that no true whackjob can get in and bomb us, then so be it. It seems to me only people with things to hide should be the ones that wouldn't like to be tracked.

They want me to have papers to travel down to the post office? Fine, where's the application? Actually, i just went to town to the grocery store, the convenience store, the bank, and then to the post office and i didn't notice any black unmarked cars following me nor did i get arrested for not having those papers. According to "You cannot travel to the store from your home in the united states without id now - its illegal.", i should be in jail right now. Boy, was i lucky.



(Don't bother with a response to that, i know exactly what you will say, it's futile...you remind me of our friend Pacione...hmm)

[CptSternn]

Tek - we were having a discussion on the EU until al and bikie turned it into an attack on the EU rather than a discussion of the EU. I'm just following the discussion here.

Also, it's always illegal, but your not punished if yer not caught. I mean, you can speed, run red lights, rob banks, whatever - until you are caught, then what your saying is it's not illegal?

Curious...

Also, did you drive? Carry your license? Have a social security number? Guess what? We don't have em here in Ireland (or mostother parts of Europe). Until 2 years ago, we didn't even have drivers licenses. Anyone could drive if they bought a car. You can get one today, and you never have to carry it anywhere. Most Gardai won't say anything if you get pulled without it.

But good to see your happy living in your police state. I mean, the way I see it, because of 9/11, most americans happily gave up most of their constitutional rights (ie. illegal search and seizure, being held without charges, speedy trial, etc). But if most americans don't care, then its not really an issue. Just don't go telling the world your way of life rules, when it is a parallel to east germany in the 60's.


Slán

[AlKilyu]

Oooh Sternn made a personal atack!

That's against the rules!

Nice to see him posting when Mael isn't around, wait a sec, it's NEVER nice to see him post!

Sit back and enjoy him posting about rights violations in the U.S. when his political party thinks it's alright to kill people they think have wronged them without an official arrest or trial.

They believe in punishment without a trial, and capital punishment for all your liberals out there, but they don't even give a last meal, or appeals process.

Hypocrite.



Shut up Sternn. No one here likes you, and you know that.

[tekajo]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Tekajo - Until 2 years ago, we didn't even have drivers licenses. Anyone could drive if they bought a car. You can get one today, and you never have to carry it anywhere. Most Gardai won't say anything if you get pulled without it.

Just don't go telling the world your way of life rules
Slán

Yeah, that's exactly who i want to be sharing the road with, anyone that can purchase a car.

Where did that last part come from? i don't recall telling the world that that my way of life rules when everyone knows that the IRAsh way of life is so awesome! Like totally dude, i SO want to live in IRAland.

Hollá

[AlKilyu]

Originally Posted by tekajo

Yeah, that's exactly who i want to be sharing the road with, anyone that can purchase a car.

Where did that last part come from? i don't recall telling the world that that my way of life rules when everyone knows that the IRAsh way of life is so awesome! Like totally dude, i SO want to live in IRAland.

Hollá

hahahahaha that's fuckin funny!

Yeah, and last I checked there wasn't roadblocks every couple of blocks in the U.S.

WE ousted the Brits CENTURIES ago. So did the Scots.

Heh Tek how much you want to bet he is sending a flurry of emails to a mod or two begging them to log on and do away with his enemies?

[tekajo]

i'm not a betting man Al, it may be illegal and since my computer is probably monitored The Gov'ment'll be here in ten minutes to send me to prison forever.

------
How will I get one of these new ID cards?
You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.

For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.

State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.
------

How does that not sound reasonable? If one cannot provide those documents, then they do not need to be running around, 'cause something "jus aint right wit dem".

Right? i mean, why couldn't someone be able to provide them? Obviously, i'm missing something here...fucking Gov'ment again.

[Binkie]

Yeah, I'm the one who keeps hopping from the Soviets to the US. Someone can't stay on topic, but that's ok. Least he's keeping the crap to one thread.

And folks, you'll have to excuse Sternn. He's just not used to a functional police force there in Northern Ireland. Too many gang members dry firing their pistols at people and threatening the lives of the very citizens that "support" them so they can't make use of real authority figures.

And he wonders why "squadie" needs to be there...

:lol:

[Disfunction]

Me- "Hello civility, are you sitting this one out?"
Civility- "Yeahhh..."
Me- "Why for?"
Civility- "I dunno."
Me- "Wanna go into an alley and throw rocks at cats?"
Civility- "...nah."
Me- "Wanna go into an alley and get drunk?"
Civility- "Yeahhh!"

Civility and I go to an alley and get drunk; we have a rousing good time... I throw a rock at a couple of things I think are cats, but they turn out to be police officers. We sleep off the intoxication and return to Gothic.net where no one seems to like Civility. Civility later dies of alcohol poisoning, feeling that everyone's neglect was due to no one liking him.

You should all be ashamed. You all just killed a pretty awesome concept that can seriously hold its liquor.

[tekajo]

Originally Posted by Disfunction

Me- "Hello civility, are you sitting this one out?"
Civility- "Yeahhh..."
Me- "Why for?"
Civility- "I dunno."
Me- "Wanna go into an alley and throw rocks at cats?"
Civility- "...nah."
Me- "Wanna go into an alley and get drunk?"
Civility- "Yeahhh!"

Civility and I go to an alley and get drunk; we have a rousing good time... I throw a rock at a couple of things I think are cats, but they turn out to be police officers. We sleep off the intoxication and return to Gothic.net where no one seems to like Civility. Civility later dies of alcohol poisoning, feeling that everyone's neglect was due to no one liking him.

You should all be ashamed. You all just killed a pretty awesome concept that can seriously hold its liquor.

Joining the fray, eh?

Actually, i am ashamed for ever clicking on any polithicks thread

[Granny-like_the_apple]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Granny - you livin' in a bubble too?

First, retina scans, now forced on all non-american citizens enter the country at most every major airport. Mates in boston went through them last week.

Ah ah, you never specified upon whom these scans were being forced. I've flown between my home and my college many times this year, and I never had to get a retina scan. The security actually wasn't imposing at all-I usually wear flip-flops, meaning I don't even have to take off my shoes. If you meant non-citizens, you should've said non-citizens.

Second, lets look at the papers you are required to carry. You cannot travel to the store from your home in the united states without id now - its illegal.

Show me this in the legal code. What you posted was about air travel-I don't schedule a flight to get from my house to Publix.

Also, to book a flight, get on a bus, or ride a train, you must be subjected to a back ground check along with be entered into a database.

About background checks for flyers: good.

For trains? I'll use personal experience here: last year my school took a trip by train to another state. If they required background checks, the school would've told us, and they didn't. And buses? Come on. You get on, put the money in the slot, and sit down.

Here is Gilmores personal site with more info on his case...

http://www.papersplease.org/gilmore/facts.html

Now this is a sad story: "On July 4, 2002, John Gilmore went to Oakland International Airport. He had a ticket in his own name with Southwest Airlines to Baltimore-Washington International Airport. The purpose of his trip was to petition the government for redress of grievances—specifically, the requirement for airline travelers to provide identification.

John politely refused to show his ID and was not allowed to fly.

John then went to San Francisco International Airport and attempted to fly to Washington, DC on United Airlines. There he was informed that if he was not willing to show ID he could fly, but only if he submitted to a far more intrusive search than what every passenger goes through at the security checkpoint.

He politely declined the search and again was not allowed to fly.

Showing ID. Intensive searches. What's going on here?"

What's going on? Airport security. I've always had to provide ID before getting on a plane. If for some reason I refused, I would be aware that that's suspicious, and allow myself to be searched more carefully.

But more importantly you will have your Real ID soon, catalogued, numbered, and chocked full of your personal info including retina scan and other biometric information

http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+...?tag=nefd.lede

"Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be."

For some reason I didn't read this part as being an absolutely certain prediction, seeing as how what the rest of the article describes isn't that scary. Oh, and seeing as how the article doesn't try to present it as such.

And yes, the TIA system, which once again has got a new name, is also including info from those frequent shopper cards, so the government knows what your buying.

Hm? What frequent shopper cards?

[tekajo]

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

Hm? What frequent shopper cards?

i think that's what we down here in Louisiana call "debit/credit cards".

You know what the best thing about living in a bubble is? While the outside is all going to shit, inside the bubble it's all nice, safe, and cozy.

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