Goths united against hate crimes

[Ulfilas]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLpDklFR-y0

Please Watch this video.. feedback welcome.

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Good goth...Well, I liked that he was stragiht-forward, and I am glad that he was aggresive for the right reason. Though had I the ability I'd pick someone among our culture with a representive feel and outlook toward us.
For instance, I am actually rather glad he was yelling; but to represent our subculture I'd pick someone else. But overall it was supportive toward us, and I am still disgusted utterly at what has happened. Thank you for this link. If I can find something similar, I'll post it as well.
Goth Forever
Goth Forever
Goth Forever

[Tha Duckman]

Good Goth! I actually quite like hate crimes! Good Goth!! You can make some pretty fun jokes with them! Good Goth!!!

[delicti]

So far it's the worst he's seen it? I'd love to have grown up in his neighborhood!

I really don't think having a ticked off parent as a spokesperson is a great idea. Civility will get you much further.

[IsolatedReptile]

He's to angry, to militant, and if anyone goth wants to be taken seriously they'd make sure not too many people see that. He's acting like he's Jesus reincarnated as a Goth Army Recruiter. He used to many army references, too many war references, he's to angry in general, and it watches more like a bad sci fi movie's bad plot device than an actual wake up call to goths. He'll scare more people who don't get it than not, and those who are smart enough to not be scared will laugh at him.

[delicti]

Originally Posted by IsolatedReptile

He's to angry, to militant, and if anyone goth wants to be taken seriously they'd make sure not too many people see that. He's acting like he's Jesus reincarnated as a Goth Army Recruiter.

Well, I'm glad it's not just me. The whole reaction to this situation, while well-intended, seems a bit overblown.

I understand that the death was tragic, and the police believe that they were targeted because they were goths. However, how is this different than anyone who is targeted because they look like they have money, or look like they aren't from the neighborhood and therefor easy prey?

It's crude street thugs and they caught them. Outside of bringing the girl back to life, it looks like everything that should be done, has been.

[Breathless Horror]

I agree, he's way too pissed for it to work. He's actually perpetuating the stereotype that we're always angry and hate everyone (including each other). Being calm, polite, and collected almost always works better than profanity-laced ranting.

[Rae Ven Rae]

I wrote to him and told him I thought it was kewl that he felt the need to speak out, but I fear ignorance will remain simply that...

[Porphyria]

Wow. That guy talked for over 9 minutes without really saying anything.

[Ulfilas]

Thanks for all the comments.
I'll point Rebecca our founder in this direction so she can see them for herself.
Craig

[Beneath the Shadows]

Is it me, or isn't a bit hypocritical to call for unity amongst goths while at the same time straying away from the goth community?

[LadyLucretia]

I only got about a minute and a half in before I was too embarassed to continue. The whole "fuckity fucking fuck" style of ranting makes him seem either drunk or totally inarticulate (or both). I would be mortified to have this person representing our subculture.

[Ulfilas]

As Rebecca doesn't have an account here she has asked me to repost a response on her behalf:

"Hello, Rebecca Hohm GHU founder and CEO here. I'm sorry a video has caused you to relish in your own negativity. In my opinion, you SHOULD be angry but not by him. You should be angry at the 5 teens that brutalized a young girl to death instead. The biggest problem the humans in this world have is the *I* factor. If it doesn't pertain to you and your immediate family than it doesn't matter, right? Sophie was me, you, your friends, the kid down the street. If it could happen to her it could happen to anyone...don't you get that? Quit playing bad-ass online and stop being part of the problem. The goth community needs you to be part of the solution instead. I seriously couldn't deal with another one of you being hurt or killed because you choose to wear latex one night. Enough division!!! We are all in this together because at the end of the day, we all bleed, we all need food, shelter, a warm bed, and love. LOTS of love. You'll get tons of it if you give it away first. I guarantee it. Love is the most powerful weapon on earth. Use it. So please stop bickering. It not only gives goths an even worse impression on normal society but it makes you seem hateful, vindictive, and just plain mean too. Stop it and help me fix this problem. PLEASE. You are all very intelligent and I need your knowledge to get this fixed. We need UNITY!!!"

[thedoll]

I have done work with Goth Help Us in San Diego, and its actually a nice little volunteer program. I think its a great idea to have programs geared towards members of our subculture, I didn't watch the video as my roomie is passed out but I can speak from personal experiance that this program is fun and great way to meet friends.

[CptSternn]

I never like it when someone decides to be a spokes person for a group of people without ever asking anyone.

Although I might agree with some of the ideas presented, I think we could find a better spokesperson who is more people friendly and also doesn't appear to be a roadie for Foghat.

[delicti]

I'm sorry, but I didn't realize that she couldn't be bothered to take the couple seconds to join a community and be seen amongst the people she claims to represent. What is up with that arrogant, condescending tone? She doesn't sound like a leader; she sounds like my mother. I'm not fooled by her using "love" as a euphemism for "hate," either.

If she really wants to set the record straight, she could come here and explain herself in person, instead of having you play servant for her.

You know, if Sternn and I are both agreeing on this, there's got to be something wrong. ;-)

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Ulfilas

As Rebecca doesn't have an account here she has asked me to repost a response on her behalf:

"Hello, Rebecca Hohm GHU founder and CEO here. I'm sorry a video has caused you to relish in your own negativity. In my opinion, you SHOULD be angry but not by him. You should be angry at the 5 teens that brutalized a young girl to death instead. The biggest problem the humans in this world have is the *I* factor. If it doesn't pertain to you and your immediate family than it doesn't matter, right? Sophie was me, you, your friends, the kid down the street. If it could happen to her it could happen to anyone...don't you get that? Quit playing bad-ass online and stop being part of the problem. The goth community needs you to be part of the solution instead. I seriously couldn't deal with another one of you being hurt or killed because you choose to wear latex one night. Enough division!!! We are all in this together because at the end of the day, we all bleed, we all need food, shelter, a warm bed, and love. LOTS of love. You'll get tons of it if you give it away first. I guarantee it. Love is the most powerful weapon on earth. Use it. So please stop bickering. It not only gives goths an even worse impression on normal society but it makes you seem hateful, vindictive, and just plain mean too. Stop it and help me fix this problem. PLEASE. You are all very intelligent and I need your knowledge to get this fixed. We need UNITY!!!"

@Rebecca (not Ufilas, who I actually quite like):

Whilst I feel immensely for Sophie's family, and agree that this is the work of a group of extremely sick individuals (on whom I rightly or wrongly wish ass-rapings, guard brutality, and as much prison food as they can eat), the fact that people don't want a ranting twat on Youtube telling them how to view the world is something I can understand. Don't forget, they're goths too, and can make up their own fucking minds. People are brutalized for all sorts of reasons and, as someone has already said either here or in another thread, I don't suppose that poor girl's family would feel any better if she'd been beaten to death for the contents of her wallet. Sadly this kind of thing happens every day, and goths are among the victims, but they are neither the only, nor the largest group, of victims.

People here ARE angry at the five "people" (their humanity is debatable) who did this. But storming in and telling them they're part of the problem because they think the Yutube guy is using this tragedy to spew his own personal rant that doesn't help anything is not the way to help the cause of your organisation, though the caring shown by Ufilas shows that it does good work. In fact, it makes you look arrogant and self-righteous. You say the people here are intelligent - then let them make up their own minds and don't tell them how they should be reacting.

Good day to you.

[Valerius]

Such a tragedy indeed. But, shit happens, and I doubt a rant on youtube is going to help much.

[Pale Empress]

Call me stupid and slightly straying in content but I am more concerned for his children, he is obviously smoking in his home where his children live, slowly killing them off with his nicotine and anger (apologies for straying from the subject slightly but you see my point)

This mans approach to this subject would create hatred against the 'normal' people, his children and the easily influenced would rise up themselves and go out and commit these crimes against others.

Two wrongs don't make a right!

Anger breeds anger, hatred breeds hate!


Crime,regardless of what it is has been going on for years, it just so happens that a lot more of it gets in the news these days, when I was younger there were 'hate'crimes against goths etc - it's nothing new and has been going on for years, it happens in all cultures/genres.

That's life, like I said in a different thread, it's the punishment of these 'thugs' that need to be dealt with by the law, not by you and me.

[Ulfilas]

You're Stupid and slightly straying in content
(you did say to call you that)

Is it obvious he's smoking at home?

Does he smoke around them when his children are there?

Does he show that anger when they're around?

It's difficult to say - we don't have enough information to go on from the video - only assumptions.

I don't think his message was to do with vengeance either.

And there's every reason for us to try and make a difference - especially as "its nothing new and has been going on for years" Its time that someone took a lead and tried to start reconciling people.

The only way I can see to change the situation is by loving others through social action celebrating diversity and respect. We are a very loving and accepting subculture generally with a live and let live attitude. Let's try to show it.

The greatest barrier is assumption , misunderstanding and ignorance. If we can at least try to break those. We'll be getting somewhere.

Love X
Craig

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Ulfilas

We are a very loving and accepting subculture generally with a live and let live attitude. Let's try to show it.

The point is that that video shows just the opposite. It shows anger and judgment.

If the point is to get people mobilized, and this video is instead distracting from that and causing it's own separate debate, then it is not an effective tool for that purpose. That is a reflection upon the content of the video and has nothing to do with 'lack of unity' or 'bickering.'

I resent the character judgments being made by that woman. There is such a thing as *constructive* criticism that is born out of concern rather than negativity. People have concerns about being represented by an inarticulate and angry person, and if we are really intelligent like she says, then you think she'd at least consider our viewpoint instead of dismissing it as 'negativity.'

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I never like it when someone decides to be a spokes person for a group of people without ever asking anyone.

100% agreed.

[Pale Empress]

[Is it obvious he's smoking at home?

Does he smoke around them when his children are there?

Does he show that anger when they're around?

It's difficult to say - we don't have enough information to go on from the video - only assumptions]


Precisely!

I'm making assumptions by what I initially see just as others make assumptions by what they see. Do we really know what happens in these attacks, i'm not talking about the recent unfortunate attack, i'm talking generally, have you never seen a drunk goth mouthing off in the street at people etc?

Do you honestly believe that all 'goths' should get along? Surely not?

Quick reality check - not all goths are good people, some are racists, drug addicts, child abusers, wife/husband beaters, homophobes etc are you seriously suggesting that we get along with them because they may like the same band or wear some black clothes? I don't think so and I make no apologies for thinking that all scum should be punished, even if they are 'goth'!

It would be a wonderful place if we all got along but unfortunately we don't and never will no matter how hard we try as there is good and bad in everyone regardless of there look etc.

All this criticism (constructive or not) shows just how different we all are, we have different morals and views. If people (goths, whatever) can't even refrain from argueing on here then how do you expect to get along with the big boys in parliament? Will you get a representative, if so, who, the 'long haired lout' in the video (after all that's how Jo Bloggs will see him) I wouldn't and don't want him to represent my views as I already don't like him from what I see - or am I making assumptions again? ;-)

[delicti]

Originally Posted by Pale Empress

drunk goth mouthing off in the street at people etc?

Sorry, that would have been me. *shrug*

Anyways - we now return you to your previously scheduled righteous ass-reaming.

[Pale Empress]

Hehe righteous 'my' arse ;-)