Airport Security?

[disposable_teen]

You all probably have seen on the news or heard somewhere about the tightening of airport security on airlines going to and from England and America. Now, I can understand why there is this happening, the reasons are that 24 people were arrested on suspicion of carrying bombs to America.
Now, obviously this is a big scare for the British and American government. After 9/11 and 7/7 they have reason to believe this was an anttempt of terrorism by al Qaida.
What worries me, though i is the possible fact that human rights may be violated in this tightened security. I have an example of my worries.
Coming home from a holiday in Italy in mid - July, I was with my family waiting for our plane to come in, as we were a little early. We noticed an Arab family, not actingly suspiciously, standing near to us. Please note they were not acting suspiciously. However, as they began to speak in their native tongue, Arabic, a security guard immediatly came over and whisked them away to have their bags checked in the security part of the airport. I watched in disbelief as I saw them being led away by the security guard, and being asked if they had knives.
Now, do you not agree with me in saying that with this tightened security, human rights are being forsaked? Is it not a right of ours as humans to be able to speak in what language we wish, and follow any religion without being persecuted?

I look forward to hearing your views.

[Quinny]

Because the majority of al qaida and/or other terrorists are from the middle east, anyone that looks middleastern thats going into america or the uk is naturally going to look suspiscious to security. Which to me is quite shocking. And theres those arab commuinties and whotnot all over the world being treated like shit because of suspisions. We humans are disgusting creatures aren't we.

And i hear that ther'ye starting to slack off on security already, anyone heard of that little kid that managed to get through three security points with no parents or ticket. Lol it was only untill he got on the plane when he was actually accounted for.

[HumanePain]

I just arrived in the Midwest from California, and the only difference was that i had to check my rollaway bag because of my toothpaste, shaving cream and deoderant (I normally carry on both my laptop and rollaway). I think domestic travel is not as strict or intense as security for travelers coming from outside the country.

It is too bad that the same reaction to an enemy we took during World War II with internment of Americans of Japanese descent, is now harassing those of Middle Eastern descent. It should be noted that there was a *volunteer* battalion/ whatever (I have no military background at all) composed of American Japanese that was so successful and tenacious in fighting *for* America *against* the Japanese Armed Forces, that this battalion was the most decorated out of all military groups during the war.

We should be trying to make more friends over there, not more enemies.
But we should still continue to try and nail that Osama bastard and bring justice to him!

By the way: there are some pretty awesome cemeteries out here in Iowa! Full on mausoleums and huge tombstones as far back as the 1700's! The scenery will help feed my inagination for writing...

[CptSternn]

The whole 'tighten security' is a ruse. It as I said in another thread is to keep americans thinking they NEED bush and the republicans in power. EVERY terror warning has coinsided with bad news for the bush admin - this one right before lieberman got sacked by the democrats because of his pro-war views. The bush admin has been called out on that - see the video clip from msnbc on me other post to watch the details.

More importantly, this specific 'threat' was well known about for MONTHS as they already stated - they only 'swooped' in now because of the political value. Also, this same 'threat' was well documented YEARS AGO when it was planned by other muslims who are now in prison for a similar crime. It's not 'new'.

Also, the banning of these items, much like the banning of nail clippers and the like, is all shite. I mean, it has been brought out things like gel-filled bras, which contain 10x the amount of gel needed for an explosive device, are NOT checked or banned. Prostetic limbs are not checked, many of which contain large amounts of gel, and thats just to name a few items.

You could bring other precursors on the plane in forms that they wouldnt notice - for example mixing some of the chemicals with a hair product then applying a copious amount to yer head would allow you to bring enough gel on board through security they could not stop. Also the classic 'condom up the bum' still works for drug smugglers, why not explosive precursors?

Or, even better, hard luggage - filled with styrofoam normally, can be taken out to conceal drugs as it has in the past - putting a gel or powder in there will also make it through.

Thats just a few things security isn't looing for. Just wait until the bush admin needs another warning to keep bad news off the telly - they will invent some new plot they found out and use it in their next warning.

I mean, TATP is made easily with peroxide and acetone (thats hair products and nail varnish remover for those who are not up on their chemistry). Just one of a dozen simple explosive compounds one can make at home with things ye find in yer bathroom. The cleaning products, already on the plane in the stewards cabins can be made to make a hald dozen others - but those are still on the plane as well.

So don't worry. If someone wants to bring down a plane, they will. These 'alerts' and 'security measures' are much like the homeland securities warnings telling people to tape up their windows with duct tape - just something to keep the people thinking about terrorism before an election, nothing more.

And yes, if your so pre-occupied with stopping a possible attack you change yer way of life, alter the very fabric of your nation, and modify the laws which have governed your country since it was founded, the terrorists have already won.

[Maj.Bromley]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

I just arrived in the Midwest from California, and the only difference was that i had to check my rollaway bag because of my toothpaste, shaving cream and deoderant (I normally carry on both my laptop and rollaway). I think domestic travel is not as strict or intense as security for travelers coming from outside the country.

It is too bad that the same reaction to an enemy we took during World War II with internment of Americans of Japanese descent, is now harassing those of Middle Eastern descent. It should be noted that there was a *volunteer* battalion/ whatever (I have no military background at all) composed of American Japanese that was so successful and tenacious in fighting *for* America *against* the Japanese Armed Forces, that this battalion was the most decorated out of all military groups during the war.

We should be trying to make more friends over there, not more enemies.
But we should still continue to try and nail that Osama bastard and bring justice to him!

By the way: there are some pretty awesome cemeteries out here in Iowa! Full on mausoleums and huge tombstones as far back as the 1700's! The scenery will help feed my inagination for writing...

Umm, I think your thinking of the Tuskegee Airmen, because there were little to none Japanese-Americans in the army.

[Delkaetre]

Ah- hey, guys? See your tighten security/ruse to help Bush/not bad in America thing?
The crisis was a *UK* one. I'm having to take a ten hour overnight bus and ferry journey to get to my university, because I can't take the plane anymore. The restrictions they put on, the increasing costs, the frequent delays... It was two guys from Manchester that got booted off the plane, it's the British bound flights and internal British flights that are really turning to shit.
Hell, even American flights aren't as bad as ours anymore.
By the way, Stern- the way our luggage checks are going? Your list of things that get through won't get through much longer, and many already aren't getting through. (The hairgel can't work- every kind of explosive has been considered over here in Northern Ireland, so we know it's a no-go)

[Delkaetre]

Of course, I'm not arguing with anyone who says that this whole thing is paranoia and foolishness taken to an extreme in the hope for votes. There's a security alert roughly every six weeks if you check back through the records, so by now plenty of people are starting to get sceptical.

[Gilthoniel]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I mean, TATP is made easily with peroxide and acetone (thats hair products and nail varnish remover for those who are not up on their chemistry). Just one of a dozen simple explosive compounds one can make at home with things ye find in yer bathroom. The cleaning products, already on the plane in the stewards cabins can be made to make a hald dozen others - but those are still on the plane as well.

That's what I used to believe, too. Then the chemists started saying that the people who're telling us this kind of rubbish have been watching too many action movies.

"[The production of TATP is] Difficult in a lab, but impossible in an airplane due to the environment - the toilet - and the time requirement.

"If a terrorist did attempt to mix a bomb in an airplane’s lavatory, he would almost certainly pass out from the fumes. The mixture additionally needs to dry out for a couple hours before becoming effective. Why wouldn’t the terrorists use already dried TATP explosive (or even nitro-glycerin)? Because it’s very unstable and prone to explode if jostled too much."

[source]

Not to mention the quantity that you'd require to do anything more than blow out a window or two.

[CptSternn]

Gil -

TATP synthesis first of all has to take place at 0c, for the second two steps in the process, plus you must use ether to evaporate off the liquid to make it into a powder, much like you do in cocaine production.

It, much like homemade meth labs, would make a hell of a smell, plus during the initial stages would be so volitile any turbulence would set it off, or destroy your setup.

They *could* bring the mixed powder on board if they get it through the screeners. One thing most people don't know is that screeners with those nice explosive checking wands and test strips only test for *legal* explosives- those are ones made by companies, as they put special chemical markers in them that those machines and test kits can read.

Granted, some of the new high tech devices use gamma/neutron spectography (like the PINS or PELAN systems) to spot explosives by looking at the carbon/hydrogen count, but those devices are few and far between - only at LAX and NYC - no where else, especially outside the united states so you could get it through quite easily.

Bottom line is what I said before, if someone wants to get it through, they will. It's not hard. 90% of cargo, which is what the airlines use to make money, not the transport of passengers, is still unchecked and is on every flight. If they wanted to cause mass destruction and bring down 10 flights, they could mail a few dozen bombs to the states, all with low-jack tags or some of those other new tags you can buy for a tenner fer yer laptop to track it via satellite if stolen, and just wait till the signal tells you the package is over the atlantic, or the states, and detonate it via cell phone.

But, I'm sure they are saving that warning and many like it for some other bad news.

[HumanePain]

R&D labs have already successfully tested laser-pumped TeraHertz band detectors that register the chemical signature of explosives from a just a few molecules wandering around the local "personal space" of passengers walking through a sensor walkway.
Unfortunately, the cost is prohibitive and they are the size of a garage, but soon the cost will come down, and they will eventually shrink to a more portable size. Then anyone who has been handling or been even just near dangerous chemicals will be questioned.

There will be of course, spin off issues from developing such a ubiquitous sensor capable of revealing telltale minutia, such as this person just smoked a cigarette, this other just farted, that one just had sex (pheromone molecules have a unique chemical signature too). But as long as it is used for security only, it will be for the most part, a tool for good.

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Before the scare in England, I travelled to America from Australia.

I travelled to NYC with a group of 9 other people. Getting there was fine.

When I caught my next flight on my own, I was told to hold onto my boarding pass as I went through the metal detector. I had all my boarding passes in a little envelope, so I carried that through with me. I was told to go back and put the envelope on the belt for the X-ray machine. Fine. I went through the metal detector again and was told to go back and put my shoes (strappy sandals - possibly with drugs hidden in the flat sole) on the belt too. Fine. I went through the metal detector for the third time and was told "You've been chosen for random female secrity check. Please step over here". Fine. I was patted down. Fine. They went over me with one of those metal detector wands. Fine. "We have to search your bags". Fine (Thinking "I'm this close to beating you over the head").

I got out of it fine and caught my plane with no further hitches. While I sat on my chair, 20 meters down from the security check, I couldn't help noticing that in the 1hr and a half that I had to wait for my plane, no other person in that queue was asked to step aside for "random female security check".

[Philip Harris]

People do suck and government sucks worse-oops-we are the government. You have to admit that since most of the terroists are of Arabic origin it is inevitable that they would be singled out. It is human nature-unfortunately. But I think if I had a family and was boarding a flight with those of Mid-eastern descent I would look at them carefully. We create our own reality and what we have created is sadly lacking!

[Loy]

Philip-actually, the biggest group to commit terrorist acts against American citizens are....American citizens. Specifically, white Americans.

See, the Scientific American did a study on the reasons behind terrorist acts against US citizens a few years ago (the issue was actually the first week of September, 2001. Talk about serendipity). The top 3 reasons

1. Race. Specifically against blacks (but don't worry, latinos and asians aren't too far behind). The average was up in the tens of thousands per year.

2. Religion. Anti-Jew and Anti-Muslim were the big ones here (but also close behind was anti-catholic and anti-hindi). Average was up in the thousands.

3. Sexuality. Anti-gay (duh!). Up in the high hundreds.

(the stats come from the FBI, the Justice Department, and the National Organization of Women. You might wonder "why NOW?". Simple-the FBI and Justice Department don't consider firebombing abortion clinics and placing snipers around doctors' homes as "terrorist activities". Which also brings up the fact that there is no such thing as a working definition of "terrorist" or "terrorist group" in the US that is congruent throughout all governmental agencies. The closest is the one in the "Patriot" Act, which, when boiled down, says "whoever Bush says is a terrorist".)

So for you to make the statement that "most terrorists are Middle Eastern" comes across as extremely ignorant or extremely racist. I'll vote for "both", but I'll let you weasel out of this one on your own.

Maj. Bromley-ummm, 18,000 soldiers is a bit more than "little to none". And you are aware that the 100th/442nd were/are the most highly decorated unit in US history, right (if you didn't figure, they were all nips).