Evanescence

[Death_Mask]

Originally Posted by NothinI'vBecom

OK guys I know that almost no-one on here like the band since they are not considerd "goth" by you guys. Although I can't see how you guys think Marilyn Manson is the goth king and not like Amy Lee.

Maybe they are not goths themselves, but they are still 1 amazing band!

I think there are a Gothic inspiration in their music. Evanescence has some very Gothic-sounding, bone chilling pieces, for example Like You or Whisper, that express depressed feelings of death and darkness far better than a screaming Goth-dressed Marilyn Manson ever could.

What's wrong with you child?

[delicti]

Originally Posted by NothinI'vBecom

OK guys I know that almost no-one on here like the band since they are not considerd "goth" by you guys. Although I can't see how you guys think Marilyn Manson is the goth king and not like Amy Lee.

What are you on? Nobody thinks that Marilyn Manson is king of anything except his own fecal matter, which is usually what he tries to pass off as albums.

Amy Lee's voice sounds like a speak & spell to me. The only talent in that band is sitting behind the sound board.

[Rae Ven Rae]

I think she has a great voice and is very pretty--however, I don't get too heavily into the music...

[Rae Ven Rae]

By the way__LOVE that video...amen!

[delicti]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

I think she has a great voice and is very pretty--however, I don't get too heavily into the music...

She's definitely pretty, but as someone who works a sound board on a semi-regular basis, I can tell you there's little natural about her voice.

[Porphyria]

Originally Posted by delicti

Amy Lee's voice sounds like a speak & spell to me.

I'm far too goth to giggle... but I'm laughing on the inside.

[delicti]

Originally Posted by Porphyria

I'm far too goth to giggle... but I'm laughing on the inside.

Keep it hidden; you wouldn't want everyone else to find out! ;-)

[Edward Strange]

She does a very good job when she is singing live.
Okay, she's half dead by the end of the third song and has to sit down on her piano stool for a bit (><) but she gives a stunning performance, as does the rest of the group.

Spiffing bunch of fellows...

[Linen]

Originally Posted by Edward Strange

She does a very good job when she is singing live.
Okay, she's half dead by the end of the third song and has to sit down on her piano stool for a bit (><) but she gives a stunning performance, as does the rest of the group.

Spiffing bunch of fellows...

:nod: She was amazing when I saw her live a few months ago. I didn't hear a single note out of tune at that performance. Granted, nobody gives a flawless performance every time, especially when you jump/bounce/run around on the stage like a rabbit on crack like she does. She gets SOOO into it. I am a singer myself, so I give her mad props for being able to keep in tune (most of the time) while running all over the stage like that without passing out.

In reference to the post-production processing on many of their songs, I must say that she still has a beautiful voice when you hear her singing some of those older, raw songs (and even a few of the more recent songs - like The Last Song I'm Wasting On You). I also recently watched a clip on youtube of her singing a choir solo when she was in high school, and she sounded great even then.

[Rae Ven Rae]

I do hear a lot of compression, pitch correction and vocal fixing myself-- I don't like too compression my voice--the guy who produced my last Cd did that and took all the naturalness out--people say I sound better live than on the CD..doh!

[delicti]

Originally Posted by Linen

I didn't hear a single note out of tune at that performance. Granted, nobody gives a flawless performance every time, especially when you jump/bounce/run around on the stage like a rabbit on crack like she does.

Honestly, that wouldn't impress me. If you can't stay in tune and put on a good show as a singer, you probably don't belong on stage. I know plenty of people who aren't even particularly good who can do that.

In reference to the post-production processing on many of their songs, I must say that she still has a beautiful voice when you hear her singing some of those older, raw songs (and even a few of the more recent songs - like The Last Song I'm Wasting On You).

The only natural sounding bits of her voice sound raspy and strained to me, like she's singing in the back of her throat.

Besides, their lyrics are irritatingly "oh woe is me," and the guitar follows the same soft-verse, loud-chorus formula that was already getting stale by the time Nirvana made it a cliche'.

Sorry, don't like them one bit.

[Linen]

^ And you are entitled to that opinion. Thank you for explaining your reasons rather than just saying "ZOMG she SuCks cuz her songs aRe liek, LaME!!!".

I still adore Amy Lee and likely always will. So shoot me...

[Rae Ven Rae]

I too think she is putting a strain on her vocal cords by not using her head voice or chest voice and singing through her nose--not using her diaphram, that sorta thing, however, as a performer, I have to defend the inability to dance and singing as not a true reflection of talent. To be able to sing on pitch takes talent. To be able to perform well and with jaw dropping skill takes talent. Not all singers are performers. Not all performers are singers. Some are a rare mix of the two. Most people who get winded are probably just out of shape, and that has very little to do with talent. When I am able to dance around on stage and sing live is when I have been doing my cardio like mad. when I neglect to do so, is when I haven't been working out and I get winded very early on in a performance huffing and puffing my words-- I mean try jumping up and down in one spot for an hour and and having a conversation, let alone sing AND stay on pitch--some people can do it but I'd bet they work out like fiends...

[Linen]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

I too think she is putting a strain on her vocal cords by not using her head voice or chest voice and singing through her nose--not using her diaphram, that sorta thing, however, as a performer, I have to defend the inability to dance and singing as not a true reflection of talent. To be able to sing on pitch takes talent. To be able to perform well and with jaw dropping skill takes talent. Not all singers are performers. Not all performers are singers. Some are a rare mix of the two. Most people who get winded are probably just out of shape, and that has very little to do with talent. When I am able to dance around on stage and sing live is when I have been doing my cardio like mad. when I neglect to do so, is when I haven't been working out and I get winded very early on in a performance huffing and puffing my words-- I mean try jumping up and down in one spot for an hour and and having a conversation, let alone sing AND stay on pitch--some people can do it but I'd bet they work out like fiends...

She's never claimed to have taken professional, private voice lessons, though I think that everyone can benefit from them even if they are naturally very talented.

As for the performing vs. singing - Amy Lee wasn't a performer at all until Wind-Up Records brought Evanescence on board. Prior to getting a contract, they mostly just did recordings rather than live performances. She didn't know any stage movement, and apparently would just "stand there" (hell, I probably would too... I am not coordinated at all). They had to give her lessons in stage movement/prescence. I think she does a pretty damned good job of balancing her voice (the volume, pitch, AND emotions) with her movements now, although her voice does sound best when she's seated at the piano.

(Apparently I know WAY too much about Amy Lee and Evanescence.... lol)

[Rae Ven Rae]

LOL--and that is more than okay--another guy who murders a note, live and on Cd Is Ville from Him god bless his sexy soul! I still like them tho', maybe cause the music has an eighties melodic tinge that i used to love...

[delicti]

Originally Posted by Linen

^ And you are entitled to that opinion. Thank you for explaining your reasons rather than just saying "ZOMG she SuCks cuz her songs aRe liek, LaME!!!".

No, I wouldn't do that. :-) I mean, the Cure were all over the pop charts and they were very talented (I guess were is the operative word here). I don't immediately discount bands because of their record sales, although lately it's getting harder, pop is really getting worse and worse over time. (Yes, I know the bar wasn't that high to begin with)

[Rae Ven Rae]

I agree delicti...

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Guess I'll make the random apperence of the day.

Originally Posted by Linen

^ And you are entitled to that opinion. Thank you for explaining your reasons rather than just saying "ZOMG she SuCks cuz her songs aRe liek, LaME!!!".

As mentioned, there's nothing wrong with liking Amy Lee and Evanescence. But this is a board regarding the band, that's where all opinions are spoken. And I'll try and be diplomatic on this one.

Originally Posted by Linen

I still adore Amy Lee and likely always will. So shoot me...

Of course we won't shoot you. That has nothing to do with liking the band at all. And I am sure Amy Lee's talented and pretty, but the majority of people here don't have too many nice things to say of them.

Anyway, your reaction was rather pleasent compared to others that I have seen out of Lee/Scence fans.
Goth Forever
Goth Forever
Goth Forever

[Linen]

Originally Posted by delicti

No, I wouldn't do that. :-) I mean, the Cure were all over the pop charts and they were very talented (I guess were is the operative word here). I don't immediately discount bands because of their record sales, although lately it's getting harder, pop is really getting worse and worse over time. (Yes, I know the bar wasn't that high to begin with)

Good point. I really cringe at the word "pop" though.... I know they are categorized as such, but I still say "rock".

Originally Posted by Vyvian Blackthorne

Of course we won't shoot you. That has nothing to do with liking the band at all. And I am sure Amy Lee's talented and pretty, but the majority of people here don't have too many nice things to say of them.

Anyway, your reaction was rather pleasent compared to others that I have seen out of Lee/Scence fans.

Of course not, and I don't expect them to. I guess the thing that irritates me most about any music scene lately is that the "snobs" of said scene tend to recoil their support for a band once they get a record deal and become a multi-million-dollar machine. Mind you, in the case of Evanescence, they technically *are* on an Indie label, but obviously a band doesn't have to be major label to become mainstream.

I do understand that some people never have liked them, and never will. That's fine with me. There are plenty of bands I can't stand, but unless they are just outright AWFUL and devoid of any real talent, I won't bash them.

[Rae Ven Rae]

And it is all relative really when all is said and done. Some people dig my stuff-- others shrug--I am sure people who really hate it would come out the wood work if I ever do get famous--which is why I like being indie--I get small tiers of support and real criticism that helps, not hinders -- not enough to buy a car--but enough to eat tacos, and I like tacos...

As for the whole "they sold out cause they are main stream thing"--I hate that too, but I understand it. When the band was small, the person felt they had a special kinship with them, as if the band was still approachable -- when they blow, up that feeling is shot-- suddenly, they are no longer this really kewl person who understands "real music"--other people dig it too, and thereby it has to suddenly turn into crap--then, said fickle fan is off to find the next really good obscure band who will one day soar to popularity---

I personal root for bands to make it so they can stay around a lot longer-- trying to produce music is an expensive enterprise...

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

As for the whole "they sold out cause they are main stream thing"--I hate that too, but I understand it. When the band was small, the person felt they had a special kinship with them, as if the band was still approachable -- when they blow, up that feeling is shot-- suddenly, they are no longer this really kewl person who understands "real music"--other people dig it too, and thereby it has to suddenly turn into crap--then, said fickle fan is off to find the next really good obscure band who will one day soar to popularity---

I think part of the problem also is that once a band is on a major label, they are assigned songwriters and producers who often overproduce their music beyond recognition. And they get the whole image makeover so that they're marketable, regardless of whether that style was theirs to begin with or the creation of some Hollywood stylist. This happens more often than not when a band becomes a moneymaker for a label, and it really saps the creativity out of the music creating process.

Often obscure bands can't afford a producer, or even an effects pedal, so the music retains a rawness that allows both talent and defect to shine through much more honestly.

[moonlightrose]

I love Evanescence. I think they're music is great and Amy is very talented. I think there was more passion and more emotion in their old music. Their new album is good, but Fallen and the EPs had better lyrics. The new CD has better music, but the lyrics aren't that great. But I do love the band a lot.

[MollyMac]

once mainstream, the "subculture cool cred" is gone and, well we all know the rules. Once subculture becomes pop culture, you can no longer like them without getting scorn from those gothier than thou, who live in their parents basements, not selling out.

Individuality before independence, I say!

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by MollyMac

Once subculture becomes pop culture, you can no longer like them without getting scorn from those gothier than thou, who live in their parents basements, not selling out.

Individuality before independence, I say!

I find it helps to remind people that the goth staples - Siouxsie, Joy Division, the Cure, Bauhaus, and the Sisters of Mercy - all topped the UK charts in the 80s. For UK goths at least, goth culture *was* part of pop culture in the 80s, so anyone in the US who claims they are a goth and only listen to obscure underground artists doesn't have a sense of international music history.

[Corpsey]

Pop was good in the 80's though...

You can't compare the 80's to this decade, social motivations and what is desired from music and other things where musical inspiration might come from have somewhat changed a lot and have been doing so since the early 90's.

The 80's will be the decade to be remembered though, or atleast it will be for me.