Propaganda & Facism

c130 · 12-05-2006, 10:22 AM

Hey people.

For my graphic design project at college, we're being pushed to decide what we want to create. Most people in my class will be doing stuff like fashion design and corporate identity, but when we were briefly shown a collection of design ideas to get us thinking, I immediately locked onto this photo of a military parade, with huge graphic murals on the walls.

I'm thinking of creating a facade of propaganda for an imaginary Fascist state. My inspiration for the visuals is coming from stories like 1984, Brave New World and V for Vendetta, and from real life states like the Nazi regime. Slogans, huge bold logos, flags, posters, etc. I'm really hoping to get this project to be quite political and controversial, perhaps even so I can express my feelings about the current state of affairs within our own democratic society. The visuals should become a type of reductio ad absurdum argument against today's governments.

So, to get the project moving, I'll need to collect source material. I'll scan images from graphic novels, history books and magazines; get printouts of old propaganda posters from the 1900's onwards; take screenshots from movies; get copies of photos taken at Nazi rallies; etc.

The reason I'm posting this is to ask you folk to throw your thoughts at me.

Here are a few questions I've thought up while I was writing this post.

What images spring to mind when you think about fascist governments and propaganda?
What historical governments other than the Nazi's used propaganda heavily to keep their subjects in check? (I'm going to include quite a lot of British and American propaganda material)
What were the most common forms of propaganda? Slogans, posters, etc?
What other artwork is there that relates to this kind of subject matter?
Can you give me the names of any political artists from history?

Many many thanks for any help you can give me.

c130 · 12-05-2006, 10:44 AM

Oops, I'm retarded. I misspelled 'fascism' in the thread title. >_>

Pyre · 12-05-2006, 01:23 PM

When I think of Fascist governments I think immediately of Benito Mussolini, why of course.

Another common propaganda for the Nazis involved giving false news of the war events through speech, and a system of speakers around the major cities speaking of how well the troops were doing, and that they were soon to win the war, etc.

I don't know about art, but I did visit a D-Day exhibit in France over the summer, and I managed to get pictures of things such as a poster used during the time, a Nazi flag, a photograph of a hanging, and other Nazi memorabilia. None of the pictures are superb quality because of the glass reflecting lights around it, but it still conveys the same point if you wish me to share them with you.

Rizash · 12-05-2006, 01:58 PM

Stalin anyone? Stalin was not quite so good at "positive" propaganda.... but when he makes everyone look at each other with fear and distrust... and makes those he doenst like disappear, thats MORE effective. Plus of course he did use a lot of regular propaganda too. For some reason I think of the USSR as the country that left people in the dark the most... and that makes what propaganda you do use more effective.

As far as military "memorobelia" I've hed a chance to hold a few WWII artifacts... I've held a japanese short sword that was taken from a solider who tried to kill my friend's grandfather by storming his tent (he was a cook) well, needless to say it didnt work out so well for him. Anyway... I've also held a genuine Nazi flag... and it was creepy. To think of all the people that died because of that regime, all the people who suffered because someone was so corrupt. I dont know why a very thin, low quality flag can make such an influence on a person... but to actually hold a nazi flag really made me hate what happened even more.... I think using an image or idea for your own corrupt purpose is worse than just commiting the acts in the first place.

At any rate... the thing that gives those leaders power is the false beliefs they give the people. Also, look at North Korea... from what I've read most people there think they are in the richest most powerful nation in the world.... This in a country where the UN rations that are going to that country are not being freely given away as they should be, they're being sold..... This world has had some very corrupt people in it.

Godslayer Jillian · 12-05-2006, 05:41 PM

I don't know if it helps, but the British had a poster of a lady fighting a lion, which represented monarchy fighting the "beast" known as democracy. It clearly shows an image can convince people that a good thing can be a bad one.
On the other side of this same time, what the French revolutionists did to seem as the white hats was claim that they were fighting in the name of Reason.
That's a very good strategy for a manifestation. If you claim to be on the side of Reason and Logic, people will agree with you, saying that you opponents are nothing but despots driven by their "antiquated beliefs instead of facts". This, of course, is not necessarily the case, but it will seem so if you claim this ace in your hand before the other one does.

c130 · 12-05-2006, 06:00 PM

Good points and suggestions, all! Thanks.

Pyre: I'd love to see the photos you took, if it's not too much trouble for you. Even if the quality isn't great, it's sure to give me inspiration.

GJ: Interesting observations there. It all helps.

The reason and logic argument is a good one. The main theme of the project is "bicycles, bakelite and lightbulbs", and my strongest interpretation of this is a kind of religionless technology-driven society, which the propaganda would be manipulating and creating. Reason and logic are associated with the technological and scientific part of the world, and with a retro technology theme, it would work brilliantly as propaganda against belief-driven societies. Of course, to accurately reflect my own feelings about current govt, I'd need to twist that around a little to involve some crazy deity (a god of science!), but that'd be pretty trivial. Reductio ad absurdum, after all.
(btw I haven't seen that monarchy vs democracy poster, I'll see if I can find it...)

Pyre · 12-05-2006, 06:50 PM

Would you like me to resize them, or leave them in their current raw format?

Raw, they measure in the thousands pixel-wise.

c130 · 12-06-2006, 12:30 AM

Well, if you could resize them to about 1600 pixels high/wide max. it should make them easier to send and stuff. But I don't mind, do whatever's easiest for you, I can resize them when I get them.

Tumor · 12-06-2006, 12:57 AM

I would suggest looking at propaganda posters from actual Fascist nations, like WWII Italy. (It's interresting to note that many of their posters utilized symbols of racism, but also religion, even though the state was supposedly athiest. For example, there's an Italian propaganda poster from WWII which shows a black US soldier defiling a church. Here it is. )

Rizash · 12-06-2006, 02:34 AM

Pyre you never said you had a digital SLR... you just went from kitten to lioness when it comes to photography!

Why does propaganda use religious symbols? It attaches to our deepest emotion.... Even without saying a word it moves our emotions to their side.

Tumor · 12-06-2006, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizash

Why does propaganda use religious symbols? It attaches to our deepest emotion.... Even without saying a word it moves our emotions to their side.

I don't know about that. In some cases, that may be true, but in the case of Fascist Italy, I think it was because, even thought the State was atheist, much of the population was deeply religious, so what better way to appeal to their sense of patriotism that through the use of religious symbolism?

Draconysius · 12-06-2006, 09:04 PM

All I can say is go for it. Even if you get spat on when presenting this, your message NEEDS to be expressed.

Pyre · 12-07-2006, 03:25 PM

The Swastika was an old religious symbol that Hitler adopted and reversed the direction of :-/ I guess that could fall in under Rizash's point.

Pyre · 12-07-2006, 03:34 PM

I have four pictures, all resized to 1200x1600 in either direction. Like I said, they're not very good and will probably be of little to no help to you, but I tried.
I have compressed them in ZIP format and uploaded them to a rapidshare site:
http://download.yousendit.com/E8DB7156491CBEEA

Rizash · 12-08-2006, 01:16 AM

I've heard (this was from my high school history teacher years back). That the germans would drive spikes into the bottoms of their boots -- not just for traction-- but also so they would make as much noise when marching into cities to demoralize and freighten the citizens.... The idea was to "sound like rolling thunder". Also.... they used some flags with the swastica at 45 degrees off... alternating row to row to make it look like the swastica was spinning.... Hitler was a genious when it comes to propaganda and making the German military seem god like. Think of the "buzzbomb" V1 rocket... it was a pulse jet rocket that make such a distinct and terrifying sound that many people could not sleep for days after hearing one, even if it didnt hit their city..... To understand why people can grow up to hate each other.... simply study christian/muslim conflicts.... or the hitler youth....

c130 · 12-08-2006, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyre

I have four pictures, all resized to 1200x1600 in either direction. Like I said, they're not very good and will probably be of little to no help to you, but I tried.
I have compressed them in ZIP format and uploaded them to a rapidshare site:
http://download.yousendit.com/E8DB7156491CBEEA

They're BRILLIANT! Thanks so much! I particularly like the Nazi flag one; the way it has that deep, blood-red glow from the light behind it... I'll definitely be able to use these!

Godslayer Jillian · 12-08-2006, 04:30 PM

Don't forget colors.
Colors are very important in the human psyche. The colors of the Nazi flag was also genius.
The swastika was black, which marked its power.
The predominant red in the flag incited violence and even hatred.
Yet, the white background in the center makes it look as if it were a just cause.

Pyre · 12-18-2006, 03:12 PM

Oh, I didn't know I ever got a response on the photos: You are quite welcome

I am sorry that I didn't have my anti-shake camera before going, otherwise I would have more to share.

c130 · 12-18-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Don't forget colors.
Colors are very important in the human psyche. The colors of the Nazi flag was also genius.
The swastika was black, which marked its power.
The predominant red in the flag incited violence and even hatred.
Yet, the white background in the center makes it look as if it were a just cause.

I didn't notice you'd posted that, either, lol. Sorry. :o

Great points though. The colours definitely convey power and aggression to me, though I'd never thought about the white circle like that. I'll take a look at some other similar flags and see what the common features are.

asta_tintora · 12-19-2006, 04:25 PM

Some of the Anti-Japanese posters in America are just golden. If you can find any of those, I'd use them. ...Or alternately, you could go into the sixties and look up some of the protest posters from that time and other media.

CptSternn · 01-12-2007, 03:53 AM

You could look at the new Department of Homeland Security posters and logos - they are ripped right out of nazi memorabilia. They use the same eagle, stead of carrying or sitting atop a swastika they just put an american flag banner beneath it. Also, their slogan 'protecting the homeland' which is emblazed on many of their insignias is almost identical to 'protecting the fatherland' which is on the almost identical nazi symbols.

There are a few websites with some eire pictures comparing the two if you google for them.

nuksaa · 01-15-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

You could look at the new Department of Homeland Security posters and logos - they are ripped right out of nazi memorabilia. They use the same eagle, stead of carrying or sitting atop a swastika they just put an american flag banner beneath it. Also, their slogan 'protecting the homeland' which is emblazed on many of their insignias is almost identical to 'protecting the fatherland' which is on the almost identical nazi symbols.

How obtuse. It strangely resembles the Great Seal of the United States. Do you understand heraldry? Strangely how the Nazi symbols resembles the the Roman Eagle from over a thousand years before.

DancesWithPeacocks · 01-27-2007, 05:51 PM

I would suggest pictures of troops on the streets, such as the FLQ crisis here in Québec in the seventies. Troops directing traffic, breaking up protests and strikes, the Kent massacre, and police checkpoints for supposed, seatbelt checks...

If you look up alex jones on youtube, you can find a lot of that imagery. The guy's a nut, but the images are gold.