Father of slain soldier ordered to pay Westobro

Saya · 04-01-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Newsmax reports that Bill O'Reilly will pick up the tab for the legal fees, calling the situation an outrage:

That is an outrage," he said. "I will pay Mr. Snyder's obligation. I am not going to let this injustice stand."
O'Reilly added, "It's obvious they were disturbing the peace by disrupting the funeral. They should have been arrested, but our system is so screwed up, so screwed up, that loons are allowed to run wild. Snyder is fighting the good fight, and he is taking his case to the Supreme Court as he should. We are behind him 100 percent."

UPDATE: The Snyder family is seeking donations to help them continue their suit.

BALTIMORE (AP) — The father of a Marine killed in Iraq and whose funeral was picketed by anti-gay protesters was ordered to pay the protesters' appeal costs, his lawyers said Monday.

On Friday, Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ordered Snyder to pay $16,510 to Fred Phelps. Phelps is the leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, which conducted protests at Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder's funeral in 2006.

The two-page decision supplied by attorneys for Albert Snyder of York, Pa., offered no details on how the court came to its decision.

Attorneys also said Snyder is struggling to come up with fees associated with filing a brief with the U.S. Supreme Court.

The decision adds "insult to injury," said Sean Summers, one of Snyder's lawyers.

The high court agreed to consider whether the protesters' message is protected by the First Amendment or limited by the competing privacy and religious rights of the mourners.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_517614.html

Look, I understand wanting to protect free speech, but...thats just disgusting.

CptSternn · 04-01-2010, 01:12 AM

It's going to the Supreme Court. We will see what happens there.

Ben Lahnger · 04-01-2010, 07:31 AM

I expect a reversal of the previous court's ruling ... at least I certainly hope for one.

Tam Li Hua · 04-01-2010, 08:55 AM

Same here; that's absolutely ridiculous. Why are courts trying to reward bad behavior? :/

There should really be a law against funeral-picketing period.

Tam Li Hua · 04-01-2010, 08:57 AM

You go, Bill O'Reily!

Quote:

Fox News host Bill O'Reilly will pick up the legal tab of the father of a fallen U.S. Marine after a judge ruled that he must pay the court costs incurred by the members of the controversial Westboro Baptist Church, whom he sued for protesting his son's funeral.

This particular church is infamous for protesting the funerals of U.S. servicemen with signs saying that God killed the soldiers because of homosexuality in America, among other things.

O'Reilly called the legal fees an "outrage":

I will pay Mr. Snyder's obligation. I am not going to let this injustice stand.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_520669.html

Entropic · 04-01-2010, 09:00 AM

Wait.

I'm rooting for Bill O'Reilly? What the hell.

All joking aside, fuck Fred Phelps.

Solumina · 04-01-2010, 09:11 AM

Fuck Fred Phelps and his little pansy group.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with O'Rielly but for once he seems to be acting as a decent human being.

Despanan · 04-01-2010, 09:31 AM

O'reily can occasionally be a pretty decent guy.

OCCASIONALLY.

Still Jack · 04-01-2010, 09:37 AM

Bill O'Reilly's new publicity stunt or just being nice?

korinna5555 · 04-01-2010, 09:42 AM

Hey, either way, he's taking care of the costs. Even if it IS a publicity stunt, I can't bring myself to care.

KontanKarite · 04-01-2010, 10:15 AM

Wait....

..wait...

...What?

ape descendant · 04-07-2010, 05:43 AM

ERrrgh!! Damnedable religious fundies!!!

Tam Li Hua · 04-07-2010, 06:27 AM

^ I don't think it's us religious fundies so much as just plain insanity; most fundie Christians do not support this kind of insanity. :/

Ben Lahnger · 04-07-2010, 07:41 AM

No, in our current social climate, religious fundamentalists is to extremist and Islamic Fundamentalist is to extremist. If you don't support this kind of insanity, you are NOT a fundamentalist. And if you're trying to demonstrate your adherence to some core principals or traditions of your faith, use a different word.

Tam Li Hua · 04-07-2010, 08:03 AM

^ *sigh*

There are extremes of every group. A fundamentalist can believe that homosexual marriage is wrong, but still have the common sense and decorum to not picket an effing funeral, or even hate homosexuals. [Yes, you can dislike what someone does without actually disliking the person himself. Shocking, I know.]

I know both fundamentalists and liberals, both religious and non. Both groups have crazy people in them. Does the existence of a few crazy people in either group completely invalidate everyone else? No, of course it doesn't.

I mean, seriously? You're going to sit there and seriously tell me that you think every single fundamentalist is okay with Westboro's actions, just in general? Because take it from someone on the fundie Christian inside: We're not. Their actions are exactly the opposite of what Christ stood for; why in the world would we support such blatant hatred, stupidity, and ignorance?

Ben Lahnger · 04-07-2010, 08:29 AM

The opposite of liberal is conservative, not fundamentalist. You are misinformed.

Tam Li Hua · 04-07-2010, 08:40 AM

^ Just as you can be liberal, conservative, New Age, atheist, or anything else without being an insane extremist, so you can also be a fundamentalist without being an insane extremist. That was really my only point.

Definition of Fundamentalist.

Now, if you find religious fundamentalism insane just in general, that's an entirely different topic. But, I'm telling you, as someone on the inside who's been on the inside for almost two decades, Westboro's actions are condemned by anyone...fundie or not...with at least half a brain.

The preacher their is insane, and 99% of us do NOT support his hateful actions OR his twisted viewpoints, i. e., that it's okay to picket a funeral. Like, at ALL.

Seriously, that's a special breed of cold-heartedness that most people, religious or not, can't even fathom. The man really needs to be removed from society.

Saya · 04-07-2010, 09:39 AM

Holy shit Tam, you're a fundamentalist?

Yes, fundamentalists are crazy. If you believe that there is no evolution and dinosaurs were buddies with Jesus, you are crazy.

Ben Lahnger · 04-07-2010, 09:40 AM

I'm saying that you might want to distance yourself from the word Fundamentalist because in the context of the political and social realities of the world we live in right now, all of the meanings of that word are tainted. Take the definition you sited for instance:

Meaning #2 should be a dead giveaway. But even if we choose meaning #1, you don't believe everything in the bible should be literally followed; you've said as much above - "A fundamentalist can believe that homosexual marriage is wrong, but still have the common sense and decorum to not picket an effing funeral, or even hate homosexuals." Here are a couple of biblical passages that I am reasonably certain you do not think should be literally interpreted:

MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.

MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.

LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.

And so on ... you know many similar passages.

I also looked up the definition and found this:

Note meaning #1, including the key phrases "rigid adherence to those principles" and "often by intolerance of other views". Emphasis on OFTEN, and in the context of the usage of the word "fundamentalist" in a negative light over and over again on the evening news for decades now, I'm just saying you might want to distance yourself from that particular word.

Solumina · 04-07-2010, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

^ Just as you can be liberal, conservative, New Age, atheist, or anything else without being an insane extremist, so you can also be a fundamentalist without being an insane extremist. That was really my only point.

Definition of Fundamentalist.

Now, if you find religious fundamentalism insane just in general, that's an entirely different topic. But, I'm telling you, as someone on the inside who's been on the inside for almost two decades, Westboro's actions are condemned by anyone...fundie or not...with at least half a brain.

The preacher their is insane, and 99% of us do NOT support his hateful actions OR his twisted viewpoints, i. e., that it's okay to picket a funeral. Like, at ALL.

Seriously, that's a special breed of cold-heartedness that most people, religious or not, can't even fathom. The man really needs to be removed from society.

You think that the bible is true? Not metaphors, not stories created for people to learn from, but totally, completely, 100% true? It may not be the same breed of crazy as Westboro but that viewpoint is still an extreme one and certainly does fit the definition of extremist.

Tam Li Hua · 04-07-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

Holy shit Tam, you're a fundamentalist?

Yes, fundamentalists are crazy. If you believe that there is no evolution and dinosaurs were buddies with Jesus, you are crazy.

I don't know what I am, to be honest.

This is going to shock you to your core, but not all fundies believe evolution is wrong, or...whatever that is about Jesus and dinosaurs. [Seriously, what is that referring to?]

One can be a die-hard believer in the basic tenants of Christianity...I. E., Christ is the Son of God who came to redeem Mankind from Sin, if mankind so wishes to accept the gift of Salvation...without giving a rat's hindquarters about how God decided to form earth. None of us were there; we can't say anything for sure. If God used evolution, then fine. If He didn't, then fine. After 20 years of arguing, I just don't care any more.

Tam Li Hua · 04-07-2010, 11:41 AM

Ben: My only question is this: Do you honestly believe all fundamentalist support the hateful actions of Westboro? That was my only correction to you, and I still don't feel like I've really received an answer.

If you do, then, well, no offense...but that's -very- ignorant and close-minded. Are there crazy fundies? Yes, absolutely. There are also crazy liberals, conservatives, atheists, agnostics, and everything else. A few extremists in a group doesn't mean that the entire group is nuts or supports the actions of that one group.

I hate ignorance and prejudice in all forms, and this sounds dangerously close to both.

Saya · 04-07-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I honestly don't know what I am, to be honest.

This is going to shock you to your core, but not all fundies believe evolution is wrong, or...whatever that is about Jesus and dinosaurs. [Seriously, what is that referring to?]

One can be a die-hard believer in the basic tenants of Christianity...I. E., Christ is the Son of God who came to redeem Mankind from Sin, if mankind so wishes to accept the gift of Salvation...without giving a rat's hindquarters about how God decided to form earth. None of us were there; we can't say anything for sure. If God used evolution, then fine. If He didn't, then fine. After 20 years of arguing, I just don't care any more.

Then by definition, how are they fundamentalists? By and large "fundamentalist" is equivocal to literalist, that the Bible is inerrable. Therefore, evolution cannot exist. Even by its more broad definition its a movement that opposes more liberal interpretations of Christianity. By referring to Biblical events as metaphor or some values are outdated (like the idea that women are inferior, for example), you are not a fundamentalist, you are what fundamentalists oppose.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter9.htm
http://www.victorious.org/chur21.htm

And yes it is actually a common belief among literalists that dinosaurs and human coexist, apparently Sarah Palin being among the followers: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_130012.html

JCC · 04-07-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I don't know what I am, to be honest.

This is going to shock you to your core, but not all fundies believe evolution is wrong, or...whatever that is about Jesus and dinosaurs. [Seriously, what is that referring to?]

Uh, yes they fucking do. That's what fundamentalism is, taking everything in the Bible at face value, or at least not treating the basis of the story of creation as metaphorical. You can't redraw the lines of fundamentalism so that liberal Christianity fits inside.

Tam Li Hua · 04-07-2010, 12:02 PM

Talking about the definition of fundamentalism was never my intent. My intent was to find out if people here actually think that all fundies support and encourage the hateful actions of Westboro, because in my experience, they most definitely do NOT.

I admit, I may have gotten "conservative" and "fundamental" mixed up in my mind, because a conservative Christian and a fundamental one usually end up being the same thing. My apologies.

Now, can I get an answer to my real question?