What Religion do you Follow???

[Circle V]

The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and of The Varieties of Scientific Experience by Carl Sagan arrived in the mail a few days ago. I borrowed the former from a friend and enjoyed it immensely. Since I hate not to own books I like, I bought a copy for myself.

When I brought the book to school to return it, another student-- a fairly Muslim convert-- asked my friend if he could borrow it. As far as I know, he never returned it. Heh.

[raggedyanne]

What is it like for someone of one belief to be told that they are misled, or to tell another that THEY are misled? Why are people always convince that they know the truth and everyone else is wrong? What if they are wrong? What then . . .

[Circle V]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

I was raised religious, but have spent the past couple years rejecting most forms of belief. I feel like I've lost something, like I've lost God. Resident atheists, please don't flame me. If anyone can explain this feeling, do comment.

I never really found God, but I do understand the feeling. God offers simpler answers and more of them-- plus there is a natural sense of doubt whenever a former belief is rejected. Religion is especially bad in this respect; not only is it exceptionally important (one's soul is at stake!) but society tends to ingrain God into our minds as Truth, Love, and Goodness divine.

I suppose it's like leaving home for the first time.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Safe travels.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Don't forget about us. :P

Thanks, guys. Catch you on the flipside.

Drake

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

What is it like for someone of one belief to be told that they are misled, or to tell another that THEY are misled? Why are people always convince that they know the truth and everyone else is wrong? What if they are wrong? What then . . .

When you base your beliefs on what you don't have the ability to know, you are most likely wrong. If you base your beliefs on what you can know, then you will be 'closer' to right. Which is what atheists try to accomplish. We make the least amount of assumptions, and hopefully are the closest to being right.

[raggedyanne]

Thanks! I think that was the most polite thing you've said to me in your time here. Keep up the good work! While we're on it, why do some humans throw themselves body and soul into extremist religions? Does it make them feel included and safe? Do they really believe that forcing their religion on others in a violent fashion will save anyone?

[evilpoppy]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

Could you guys include me in this convo? I'd like to learn more about your religion and I'm a bit lost right now.

To both of you ...

I wouldn't really describe myself as gnostic. I am just at the Radical Existentialist end of Christian thought and practice.

I put stuff here: http://www.future-shape-of-church.org/

Which ranges from dull sermons to more edgy stuff.

[emeraldlonewoulf]

Thank you all who provided research suggestions.

We'll be glad when you get back, Drake.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by raggedyanne

Thanks! I think that was the most polite thing you've said to me in your time here. Keep up the good work! While we're on it, why do some humans throw themselves body and soul into extremist religions? Does it make them feel included and safe? Do they really believe that forcing their religion on others in a violent fashion will save anyone?

Because it's convincing when it's the only thing you have known, or if they brainwash you.

[biohazard]

Your arguments are starting to sound very convincing. I beleive religion was created in order to pacify humans and prevent them from commiting crimes and/or hurting others. If one has enough knowledge and self-dicipline to not do that, then religion ould not be necessary for that person. I am still in doubt as to abandon my beliefs or continue to have them. If I do abandon, I plan to be neither for or against religion. If people want to beleive in religion, it is their problem.

[Romantic Raven]

Actually, the origins of religion can be traced back to the time when people were trying to explain natural phenomena. They couldn't understand why they couldn't control it, and concluded that someone else was "in charge".

Anyway, my opinion is that religion in itself has done nothing but harm; it is just a means of controlling the masses. You can believe in whatever you want to believe without shouting out loud that you belong to a certain religion. That way, people would be more open-minded, they would develop a stronger connection both with nature and the spiritual world, and there would be a greater amount of good in the world.

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by biohazard

Your arguments are starting to sound very convincing. I beleive religion was created in order to pacify humans and prevent them from commiting crimes and/or hurting others.

Religion has also massively been used to have power, wealth and control since.. well, ever. Something not to be forgotten. It's only in modern times that it has lost its "grip".

[honeythorn]

Partly one of the reasons I love Paganism is, as a general rule it is non-proselytising. One of the things that really makes me angry is proselytisation. I don't give a shit what religion it is, I simply feel it to be pushy, unnessescary and rude.

Be it with leaflets , door to door ( that one really makes my blood boil ) or shouting in the street, I think religion ( or indeed lack of ) is something personal to the individual.

No matter how fantastic someone thinks their religion is, no matter how great and spectacular they percieve their deity to be, I really do not hold with them pushing it in the faces of those of differing faiths and telling them they are wrong and will go somewhere dark and evil, or suffer in some way after death.

Personally I don't give two shits HOW the universe came into being, I don't give a toss if it was made by deity or if the big bang occurred ( who knows, perhaps both? ) the point is, as far as we know the universes exists, reality exists , shit happens and life runs in cycles.

Quite frankly, I see no reason for anyone to try and prove the existance of deity/god ect, I don't see why it should matter so very much.

The point is , it cannot be proven or dis-poven, so regardless of what religion you follow ,why bother.

[psyches_reflection]

I'm some form of frustrated Pagan. I was Christened, and went to a C of E school where we were frequently hit about the head with the Bible. I never really felt God or 'His' influence, though I do feel a profound connection with the Earth and with Nature. I don't really worship anyone or thing, but I feel connected to the world and comforted by it.

[honeythorn]

I usually identify myself as pagan. I do believe deity exists in some form, but I don't presume to give it a name or form. I just call it " deity " I am particularly enamored of the image of the green man, and of Cerrunos. I recently bought a book on the Celts, which has a section on their religios beliefs, which I am finding very interesting

[Onetwothree]

All spiritual/supernatural/religious beliefs are equally inept-thinking.

[honeythorn]

Perhaps to you.

[Circle V]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

All spiritual/supernatural/religious beliefs are equally inept-thinking.

Not true. A "god of the gaps" or an unknowable deity are much more plausible than a god that flatly contradicts scientific evidence.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

All spiritual/supernatural/religious beliefs are equally inept-thinking.

But are dwarfed by your ignorance and narrow-mindedness.

[Circle V]

Refusing the acknowledge the validity of irrational beliefs is not narrow-minded. He is neither ignorant nor narrow-minded-- just far from tactful, and potentially overzealous.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

Perhaps to you.

No, to any scientist pretty much. Scientists = thinkers of this age.

A man who dropped out of H.S. to preach some crap > scientist's intelligence.

Anyway, it's quite obvious:

All of them suppose things that cannot be proven, because this way they protect their beliefs. They never invest their beliefs in things that can be easily proven. Like if Gerbil's have a certain genome, and if it's wrong then the entire faith is wrong, etc.

That's an absurd example--but you get it.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Cyntrox

But are dwarfed by your ignorance and narrow-mindedness.

I feel bad for you. You're in the presence of someone who obviously knows more than you, and you're not even willing to take notes. Well--I suppose you will always be stupid then.

[Cyntrox]

Originally Posted by Circle V

Refusing the acknowledge the validity of irrational beliefs is not narrow-minded.

Generalizing like he did is, however.

Originally Posted by Onetwothree

I feel bad for you. You're in the presence of someone who obviously knows more than you, and you're not even willing to take notes. Well--I suppose you will always be stupid then.

And who would that be? You?

[honeythorn]

I just don't see why it matters so long as people aren't pushing their religion in your face.

I can understand that , as an atheist if you have someone coming up to you going " believe..blahblahblah or burn/die blahblah " you would naturally want some actual form of proof of their deity to back up what they are bleating at you .

But what of those who do not do this? What about those people who quietly get on with their lives without bothering anyone? Why should they/we have to prove anything to people like you?

I believe in evolution, I believe it has and does happen .It's fucking obvious that it has and does happen.

I also believe in a form of deity. I don't think deity " created " the world/universe ect, I think it is just as much a part of it as nature. I believe it IS nature.

Do I give a shit if you believe the same as me or not? NO. I have no desire to to make you see the world my way, or to believe in any kind of deity/god.

You may think my beliefs are ridiculous, illogical, and have no basis in fact, but they are my beliefs, and they are personal to me, despite possibly being shared on a general basis by many others of similar thought ( in terms of paganism anyway).

They do not affect my day to day life in a way that prevents me from acting normally, I do not wave books on witchcraft at people and tell them they must try this. It isn't their business. It isn't their concern, or yours for that matter.

[Onetwothree]

Originally Posted by Circle V

Not true. A "god of the gaps" or an unknowable deity are much more plausible than a god that flatly contradicts scientific evidence.

If it's unknowable, then how do you know it? It's just as implausible. I think that belief just died in a puff of logic.