The Criminalization of Marijuana

Spazik · 09-08-2005, 10:11 AM

Thanks for the idea, Mael! I'll start the discussion.

Most people don't know that Marijuana criminalization was federally instituted in 1938, roughly towards the end of alcohal prohibition. Some of the elders in our society can still remember when pot was legal. What I find amusing is the fact that many of the same problems Alcohal Prohibition can be found today in Marijuana Prohibition, such as the creation of a gigantic black market, and an exorbenant amount of our hard earned tax dollars are wasted fighting it.

In the fifties, citizens were subject to propaganda such as this

Reefer madness is a movie that implied that Marijuana turned people violent and insane, and that it was a worse drug even then heroin. Today, we know how ludicrous that is. What do you think we'll know about modern American marijuana propaganda in the future?

Disfunction · 09-08-2005, 07:28 PM

Okay... Really... I want to see a show of hands of people that know people who have died from marijuana related complications.

Now I want to see statistics for people smoking marijuana vs. people smoking cigarettes. I want all of this information on my desk by tomorrow morning, and I'm not playing anymore.

Let's get to it!

FenrisQueen · 09-11-2005, 12:35 AM

Please, Dis. All the Statistic reports would just cover up all the High Times magazines on your desk.

Let's get real here.

Demonista_Ravenesque · 09-11-2005, 12:43 AM

Marijuana seriously should be legal...like, cigarettes are by far worse than marijuana because the death toll is higher...but the only reason why cigarettes are still legal is because it's the whole franchising government money deal...without it, the government would have some kinda money shortage...but that's just my opinion, I think everythings's a conspiracy

soggypicklemuncher · 09-12-2005, 08:51 AM

I remember downloading and watching Reefer Madness a few months ago. Parts of it were pretty boring but I remember how marijuana was compared to and even portrayed as being worse than coke and heroin.

MrMaelstrom · 09-13-2005, 11:00 AM

It is worse.

The government can't make a lot of money getting the CIA to sell weed, but they did a great job with heroin (Laos during the Vietnam War - the dumb people can watch Air America) and coke (all of the 80's and 90's and right now).

See why it's worse?

soggypicklemuncher · 09-14-2005, 02:57 PM

Indeed. If the government can't somehow profit from a drug, it tries to quash its use.

Wasn't the criminalization of peyote and other hallucinogenic drugs a method of cultural persecution? I read somewhere, a long time ago so I don't remember a whole lot, that the U.S. government was just picking on Native Americans by making hallucinogenic plants they used in rituals illegal. I'm going to go see what kind of information I can find about that now, but I just wanted to mention it in my post.

Empty_Purple_Stars · 09-14-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soggypicklemuncher

I read somewhere, a long time ago so I don't remember a whole lot, that the U.S. government was just picking on Native Americans by making hallucinogenic plants they used in rituals illegal.

I have some friends in New Mexico who live on the Pueblo Res outside of Taos..

Basically the way it works is that if an individual wants to be able to grow, possess or order a plant like Peyote or Datura for ' religious purposes' they have to be registered and documented as a Native American and be properly licensed to possess or obtain hallucenogenic plants or cactii for the purpose of 'spiritual enlightenment' during a religious or spiritual ceremony..

Yes, the government has been busting their balls for years, but whats unusual about that, sadly?

We exterminated millions of a beautiful and proud indigenous people like they were bugs, and forced the few suriviors to live on whatever pitiful and insufficient land handouts the federal government allowed them.

I get all worked up about it, don't even get me started..

But yeah, they can order this stuff on the Net if they want to do so. They just have to enter the appropriate requested info that the website is required to ask for, prior to any such sale..

But it would be cheaper and easier to just drive out to the desert with Ye Olde Handy Cactus Identification Book and a backpack..

Black Gestalt · 09-14-2005, 10:34 PM

My friend has a shirt with that on it.

What people do in their private lives is none of the governments responsibility, and so, yes, it should be legal.

soggypicklemuncher · 09-16-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

But it would be cheaper and easier to just drive out to the desert with Ye Olde Handy Cactus Identification Book and a backpack..

I'd try that, but I'd probably end up poisoning myself.
That and I don't live anywhere near a desert. : P

Asurai · 09-19-2005, 07:01 PM

I saw a T-shirt that said:

"ALCOHOL
TOBACCO
& FIREARMS
should be a convenience store,
not a government agency."

Add "marijuana" there somewhere.

1TOOMANY · 09-19-2005, 07:06 PM

Perfect motto, I'll buy that for a quarter..

Sarkphagos · 09-20-2005, 12:33 PM

Well, I tend to keep out of this forum since I pretty much disagree with everyone on planet Earth when it comes to politics, but since I am here...
Comparing marijuana to cigarettes is not saying you should legalize one, but rather illegalize both.... Anyways...
Its hard to know when its the governments duty to intervene. Abortion, for example. Some people say it should be illegal, just murder. Others say its the woman's body. Which is right? How does the government know? (I am thinking the former might be a better idea, you know: _just in case_)
Back to drugs, my good mother insists that alcohol should be illegal. And she has a decent case: people, under its influence, do harm other people. Me, alcohol is so cultural to illegalize it would be a blow to the same. Of course, maybe marijuana is cultural to, just not my culture.

I think people are too hard on the government (although, I too, get worried about it becoming to 'controling')

Propaganda? I love propaganda! Where would life be without it?

MrMaelstrom · 09-20-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarkphagos

Comparing marijuana to cigarettes is not saying you should legalize one, but rather illegalize both.... Anyways...

I am waiting for something plausible to back that up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarkphagos

Back to drugs, my good mother insists that alcohol should be illegal. And she has a decent case: people, under its influence, do harm other people.

Me, alcohol is so cultural to illegalize it would be a blow to the same. Of course, maybe marijuana is cultural to, just not my culture.

It was illegal in the USA before (1930's for those of you who really know nothing at all) and it made for an hell of a mess when it came to corruption, organized crime and a whole lot of byproducts. Can you see any parallel to the war on drugs? Maybe you should do some research before talking about your culture (this goes for both alcohol and Marijuana - especially the chapter about people inflicting injury on other people with full intent).

You might have mentioned "my culture" meaning your own opinions as an individual. In this case, just think there might come a time when something YOU see as part of your culture is made illegal. What then? What do you do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarkphagos

I think people are too hard on the government (although, I too, get worried about it becoming to 'controling')

My previous paragraph addresses this, I believe.

NEXT!...

ice · 09-20-2005, 04:20 PM

fucaka! fuck lebnalizing it. it's fine like is it.

Sarkphagos · 09-20-2005, 09:02 PM

Forgive me, I wasn't clear. The bit about illegalizing both is just trying to point the silliness of saying "Cigarettes are legal, so marijuana should be too" becuase that phrase can be turned around to say "Marijuana is illegal, so cigarettes should be too."

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

You might have mentioned "my culture" meaning your own opinions as an individual. In this case, just think there might come a time when something YOU see as part of your culture is made illegal. What then? What do you do?

Yes, I am aware of the prohibition, and yes, I can see the parallels. As for "my culture" I do mean my personal opinion. As always, its me against the world (^_^ I love over-simplifications). In my paragraph there I was _supporting_ legalizing marijuana. I almost mentioned how peyote should be legal (Does the status it carries now count as legal?) I should point out I don't drink, so alcohol being illegalized actually wouldn't affect me at all. The illegalization of marijuana probably affects me more, given the ratio of my friends who partake in the latter, but not so much the former.

And I still think people give the government too hard of a time, about everything.

So....

Granny-like_the_apple · 09-20-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarkphagos

Back to drugs, my good mother insists that alcohol should be illegal. And she has a decent case: people, under its influence, do harm other people.

Cars, trains, and airplanes should be illegal-people driving them harm other peope when they crash, and they emit bad shit that kills the ozone layer and that kills us. Religion too-people under the influence of religion do bad shit like killing people. Rap music. Violent movies. Power trips. Heroin.

Also, you're not quite the radical person you profess to be. Everything you've said, I've seen or heard from other people. You think abortion should be illegal, worry about the govt being too controlling, but still think most people belittle it too much? Incredible!

Sarkphagos · 09-21-2005, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

Cars, trains, and airplanes should be illegal-people driving them harm other peope when they crash, and they emit bad shit that kills the ozone layer and that kills us. Religion too-people under the influence of religion do bad shit like killing people. Rap music. Violent movies. Power trips. Heroin.

Also, you're not quite the radical person you profess to be. Everything you've said, I've seen or heard from other people. You think abortion should be illegal, worry about the govt being too controlling, but still think most people belittle it too much? Incredible!

I didn't say I was radical, I'm not. I said everyone else on the planet seems to disagree with me. It was (obviously) an over generalization and I expected it to be taken as such. (As it would have been impossible for me to have talked to _everyone_ on planet earth) It seems that everyone I hang out with/ have talked to about it disagrees with me. It seems possible that just the people I hang out with hold veiws contrary. Actually this entire conversation is proving the point, but thats besides.
You're completely mistaking my points. I am not advocating the legal or illegalization of Marijuana. Deep down inside, I don't really care. (Apathy's a bad attitude to have, but its the truth.) Whether your confusion is my fault or yours...

At least I've brought conversation to the topic! *Martyr complex*

ice · 09-21-2005, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice

fucaka! fuck lebnalizing it. it's fine like is it.

Ignore this people. <.<

Granny-like_the_apple · 09-21-2005, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarkphagos

I didn't say I was radical, I'm not. I said everyone else on the planet seems to disagree with me.

And your definition of radical is...?

Quote:

It was (obviously) an over generalization and I expected it to be taken as such. (As it would have been impossible for me to have talked to _everyone_ on planet earth) It seems that everyone I hang out with/ have talked to about it disagrees with me. It seems possible that just the people I hang out with hold veiws contrary. Actually this entire conversation is proving the point, but thats besides.

I know it was hyperbole-I was trying to disabuse you of the notion that your views are in the minority.

Also, a sampling of a tiny amount of people does not prove your point.

Quote:

You're completely mistaking my points. I am not advocating the legal or illegalization of Marijuana. Deep down inside, I don't really care. (Apathy's a bad attitude to have, but its the truth.) Whether your confusion is my fault or yours...

You're mistaking my point. Marijuana was not mentioned in anything I wrote or quoted. I was referring to your mother's reason for outlawing alcohol. You said she had a decent case. I said it wasn't so decent.

By the way-apathy? Not unique at all.

Quote:

At least I've brought conversation to the topic! *Martyr complex*

Oh no, you don't want to be associated with the last person who slapped himself on the back for igniting conversation on political topics.

Granny-like_the_apple · 09-21-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ice

Ignore this people. <.<

Heh. A little stoned there, ice?

ice · 09-21-2005, 07:26 PM

No BS, man. I spoke to the cloud king; His name was Schnappi.

Mein gott!

Sarkphagos · 09-22-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

And your definition of radical is...?

Being extreme. Disagreeing with people does not mean one is extreme.

Quote:

I know it was hyperbole-I was trying to disabuse you of the notion that your views are in the minority.

Also, a sampling of a tiny amount of people does not prove your point.

My veiws are in the minority, at least among the people I know. You missed the 'point'.

Quote:

By the way-apathy? Not unique at all.

Did I say it was unique?

Quote:

Oh no, you don't want to be associated with the last person who slapped himself on the back for igniting conversation on political topics.

Sarcasm, dear. I suppose it's a bit hard to tell over the internet.

MrMaelstrom · 09-22-2005, 03:06 PM

Sarkphagos: regarding your reply to my post: I stand clarified concerning your opinions on the matter, and I agree (except for alcohol, of course; r'ya nuts, kid?), so you must obviously be right

Granny-like_the_apple · 09-22-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarkphagos

Being extreme. Disagreeing with people does not mean one is extreme.

Not necessarily, true. I should have used a more accurate word.

Quote:

My veiws are in the minority, at least among the people I know. You missed the 'point'.

Nah, I was just being a hyperbole stickler.

Quote:

Did I say it was unique?

It would have to be unique to disagree with everyone. But whatever, I think we both know it's time to move on. I will now move on to hanging out with a cute guy/girl-have a fun weekend, everyone.