Gothic.net News Horror Gothic Lifestyle Fiction Movies Books and Literature Dark TV VIP Horror Professionals Professional Writing Tips Links Gothic Forum




Go Back   Gothic.net Community > Boards > Spooky News
Register Blogs FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Spooky News Spooky news from around the web goes in this forum. Please always credit and link your source and only use sources which are okay with being posted. No profanity in subject headings please.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-04-2008, 02:17 PM   #1
Sir Canvas Corpsey
 
Sir Canvas Corpsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,424
Bill Henson Controversy: Child Pornography

So the issue as I understand it is that the famous Photographer Bill Henson created some new works and attempted to dispaly them: a form study of an underage young girl, nearing puberty, and she was naked sparking the flames of what has been a battle of morality, public safety and freedom of expression and art.

Articles below:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/ju...bhen-j03.shtml

Growing condemnation of censorship of Australian artist Bill Henson
By Richard Phillips
3 June 2008

Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

The unprecedented censorship of Bill Henson’s work and threats of child pornography charges against the widely-respected artist/photographer and the Roslyn Oxley9 Gallery on May 22 sent shock waves through Australia’s artistic community. Although artists faced growing attacks on freedom of expression under the former Howard government, few were prepared for the latest assault and its encouragement by Labor Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and New South Wales Premier Morris Iemma.

A day after the raid Rudd told national television that Henson’s work was “absolutely revolting” and later declared that the law should take its course. Encouraged by these inflammatory remarks, police in New South Wales, Victoria and the Australian Capital Territory widened their censorship operations and demanded that galleries and Internet sites take down Henson’s work or face prosecution under child pornography laws.

This assault on basic democratic rights has produced a wave of anger. Letters to the editor columns and Internet blogs of the corporate media have been swamped with protests. These include comments from artists, writers, former Henson models, victims of sexual abuse and even a former NSW police superintendent, defending Henson, denouncing the use of police and attacking Labor’s encouragement of this assault on basic democratic rights

A letter to Melbourne’s Age newspaper from Antonia Green, an artist and former model of Henson, gave voice to some of these concerns: “As a child I was photographed by Bill Henson, along with my brother and father, and have known his work since I was seven. It has been an influence in inspiring me to become an artist.

“To me, these images have always communicated a fragile truth and a pure beauty in a dark world. There is, I think, a metaphoric darkness beyond the world of night that the models appear in. Significantly, these images of naked adolescents sit alongside other photographs of night skies, empty lit buildings and silhouettes of trees; it is a whole world he is evoking.

“Henson’s work is poetic, not pornographic. If we censor the expression of what is dark and ambiguous in art, then a far greater darkness takes hold—that of ignorance, suppression and a numbing of imagination.

“If Bill Henson were convicted, this would set a precedent for curbing the civil liberty of artistic expression and a dumbing down of Australian cultural experience. As an artist, the prospect of making work in this country is looking bleaker daily.”

“Artists can’t be artists in an environment of hysteria”

The World Socialist Web Site spoke with Judy Annear from the Art Gallery of New South Wales (AGNSW), a few days after the censorship of Henson’s exhibition.

Annear, who was curator of Henson’s 30-year retrospective at the AGNSW in 2004-05, said the censorship was “appalling”. She repudiated the allegations of child pornography.

“I’ve known Bill’s work for 30 years and we’ve been collecting his work since the early 1980s,” she said. “We mounted a major retrospective in late 2004 and 65,000 people saw it here in Sydney and there were no complaints. We produced a book for show and it sold out—probably about 4,000 copies—and again there were no complaints. It then went to Melbourne and broke all records for a major solo show.”

Asked about what had produced the hysterical attack on Henson, she replied: “You have to look at the broader social arena. Unfortunately I can only talk to you about his work as an artist but I will say that for politicians to conflate art and pornography is entirely inappropriate.”

“Bill is not about exploiting or whipping up hysteria—these accusations are coming from somewhere else. The really important thing to consider is that stylistically Bill’s work may change over time in all sorts of subtle ways but in essence it’s always about the same thing. It doesn’t matter that it’s a landscape or city street or a crowd picture or a young person or an old person, whether they’re clothed or naked; it’s all about how to present a set of ideas.

“All artists—whether they’re visual artists or musicians or writers—are working towards this. They want to produce the best and for people to understand something about themselves and the world around them.”

Annear said: “It’s important for people to take a step back and look rationally at what is going on because artists can’t be artists in an environment of hysteria. Do we want to live in that sort of community? And where will it stop, does it mean that his books should now be pulped?”

The National Association for the Visual Arts (NAVA) has called for Henson’s artworks to be returned and exhibited at the Roslyn Oxley9 Gallery.

NAVA’s executive director Tamara Winikoff told the WSWS: “It’s obvious that the whole question of child sexual abuse is a very sensitive issue and one can see why something like this might happen. It’s necessary, however, to step back and take a deep breath and ask, ‘Is this really abusive?’ You also have to ask about the context in which it has been made and shown?

“First of all, it is at an art gallery and not on a pornographic website, and secondly you have to question the attitudes of mind that people bring to the work. After all, nudity is not an offence and for the last five centuries—in fact since the beginning of human civilisation—the nude figure has been a legitimate subject for artists. It is bread and butter for anybody that looks at art and appreciates art. This should not be problematic in the twenty-first century.

“Yes, it’s fine that Kevin Rudd and [federal Liberal Party leader] Brendan Nelson, and anyone else who wants to comment, to have their own personal opinions, but these opinions need to be tested and not just be a knee jerk reaction.

“Once all the blood and guts is over we need to calmly analyse the issue. Warning signs can be put on galleries if people think that something inside may be problematic, people can then judge whether they should go inside. But to censor it on the presumption that someone who goes inside is going to be perverted and come out as a child abuser, is a long stretch. Complaints from the public don’t constitute breaking the law.

“One of the purposes of art is to challenge people’s comfort zones and to call into question the appropriateness of public attitudes to anything. Censorship not only constrains the freedom of expression of the artist but it compromises the right of the community to access the work.”

Theatre critic and poet Allison Croggon, who authored the Open Letter of Support for Bill Henson, which was signed by more than 42 participants in the Labor government’s recent 2020 Summit, told the WSWS that scores of people had contacted her in the past few days wanting to add their names.

Croggon said that while artists were “horrified” by the censorship of Henson and the comments of Rudd, she had “always had been sceptical” about the new Labor government. “I wish I could say I was surprised by the responses of Kevin Rudd and Iemma—their comments did nothing to make the discussion more rational—but I am very disappointed.

“Arguments are now being advanced,” she continued, “that nudity equals sexuality and pornography. This means throwing out the whole history of Western art.

“Children are not being protected by these outraged actions. All I can see is young people being demonised. And the reality is that there have been no complaints from models—on the contrary, former models have praised Henson. So there’s a qualitative difference between ********** and what Bill Henson is doing.”

Commenting on the Open Letter, Croggon said: “The warnings we make at the end of the letter are crucial. Historically, if you know anything about repressive regimes, artists are among the first to be targeted. Obviously there are political activists but artists are always targeted.”

Croggon believed that Rudd was not “being hypocritical or populist about this but has this moralistic core. Obviously he’s entitled to feel that way personally but his conflation of morality and the law is a bit too Talibanesque for my taste.”

..... continued in the above link

More Articles:

http://news.google.com.au/news?hl=en...num=5&ct=title

It is my strong personal belief that anyone who walks into a gallery of such work and sees sexual content and perversion from the photos (which what from what I have seen show no sxually provocative content) are in fact the ********** themselves. I can only ever see this work as art. I think its about time the world stopped fearing the human body, just because it is naked, doesn't mean it is sexual, if it was, god forbid parents bathing their young children for fear of enacting toddlercon.

Does it ever seem like aspects of our society are going backwards rather than forwards?
Sir Canvas Corpsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 09:20 PM   #2
emeraldlonewoulf
 
emeraldlonewoulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 750 mi north of AZ equivalent to Derry, Maine
Posts: 673
I don't think you're gonna get many takers for discussion on this one, man. People are too afraid of looking like a pedo. I think this is the kind of thing that could have been done in a strictly artistic way, but too many people would use it for other nefarious purposes. I wonder what the girl and her family would have to say on the subject?
__________________
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup." - unknown



question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormtrooper of Death
(shouts) WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??!!?
answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows
Because some people are dicks. And not everyone else is gay.
emeraldlonewoulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 10:39 PM   #3
Sir Canvas Corpsey
 
Sir Canvas Corpsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,424
From what I hear on the matter, the parents and the girl are defending Bill Henson
Sir Canvas Corpsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2008, 11:04 PM   #4
Wormboy
 
Wormboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Temple of Love
Posts: 1,641
I looked up the pictures, Canvas Corpsey is calling it like it is. They do have naked girls, but they're not sexual. One actually has a young girl and what looks like a young boy, in an embrace and they look like they just kissed. Still, it's very artistic. They're pretty interesting, not exactly my favorite works of art but not bad at all.
__________________
NyQuil – the stuffy, sneezy, why-the-heck-is-the-room-spinning medicine

Kontan - "Eventually, you ended up looking like the freaking grim reaper towards the end of the game.
Now we got this cracked out jungle hobo...."
Wormboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 01:29 AM   #5
TopHaggardDoll
 
TopHaggardDoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 865
fucks sake...this is ridiculous.

People always do this, they get hysterical over nothing. I hate censorship more than anything and this takes the piss. If you can't see the difference between art and pornography then you're clearly an idiot.
__________________
~:She Is Your Suffering:~
TopHaggardDoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 11:25 AM   #6
Wormboy
 
Wormboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Temple of Love
Posts: 1,641
Here here. It's similar to those statues of the naked human form in Italy. Ask the locals about people having problems with them being "sexual", they will tell you, "If you look at those pieces of art and get sexually aroused, the problem isn't the art, it's you."
__________________
NyQuil – the stuffy, sneezy, why-the-heck-is-the-room-spinning medicine

Kontan - "Eventually, you ended up looking like the freaking grim reaper towards the end of the game.
Now we got this cracked out jungle hobo...."
Wormboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 03:30 PM   #7
Sir Canvas Corpsey
 
Sir Canvas Corpsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,424
well there was a news report last night in which the police have retracted their court action and all the pieces are to be put back up on display. One woman said it was a victory for ********** everywhere. In a somewhat related incident, where several ********** in the posession of child pornography got caught, one politician-y sort of dude got away with calling **********: "gutless curs who should just top themselves off and burn in the fires of hell".

I disagree with the woman, because it is art and not chlld pornography and there is a clear distinction in the areas of which the two are placed. The Art was submitted for display in a gallery whereas child pornography is generally kept by the pedophile to him or herself.

However I do think there are some parts of the child porn law that need to be ironed out and a few loopholes I found that need to be filled.
Sir Canvas Corpsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 03:46 PM   #8
Godslayer Jillian
 
Godslayer Jillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormboy
It's similar to those statues of the naked human form in Italy.
Well, most of those statues did have their penises cut off, replaced by the proverbial leaf. There's supposed to be a storage in the Vatican just filled with statue penises. Morality is stupid.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.

I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
Godslayer Jillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 04:33 PM   #9
lostintranslation
 
lostintranslation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 639
I think taking pictures of nude children is probably something that even artists should deter from simply beacsue of the nonsense that comes with it. BUT-the pictures are very artistic and provactive rather than sexual. Here is my question: why is it that semi-nude photos of Miley Cyrus are ok for a international magazine, but nude and semi-nude photos of teen models for an art show are considered pornography? I'm so sick of censorship. Even g-net has censorship. BLEH.
lostintranslation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 05:02 PM   #10
HumanePain
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
Blog Entries: 4
I agree with the comment:

“Artists can’t be artists in an environment of hysteria”

Blind Faith in 1969 released an album cover with an underage girl "the age of Shakespeare's Juliet".

http://sleevage.com/blind-faith-blind-faith/

It became Americana to see that album in almost everyone's bedroom in the early 70's.

I'll never forget the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq5oJaqDf7U
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_wA-WdI4
Charlie Chaplin The Greatest Speech in History


HumanePain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 05:24 PM   #11
Godslayer Jillian
 
Godslayer Jillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostintranslation
I think taking pictures of nude children is probably something that even artists should deter from simply beacsue of the nonsense that comes with it.
And let them win?
They want artists, writers, musicians, comedians, et all, to stop because they don't like what they say; so the answer is to stop what they want to say because they don't like it?
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.

I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
Godslayer Jillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 06:03 PM   #12
BLEED REBELION!!!
 
BLEED REBELION!!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Nagoya, Aichi, Japan
Posts: 1,679
Wormboy what site did you fibnd the Pictures on?
__________________
"Yo tengo la empanada empinada"
- Me


" I love 4play! Its the best thing I've ever done"
- My Boyfriend
BLEED REBELION!!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 06:04 PM   #13
Technowitch
 
Technowitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In cyberspace.
Posts: 78
"THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!" -- The rallying cry of moral absolutionists everywhere.

The problem here is that people whose ideas of nudity are tied firmly and inseparrably to sexuality were allowed to inflict those views upon the public and one artist in particular. There is a definite line between artistic and sexual nudity (for instance, there is a huge difference in tone between Michealangelo's Cistine chapel frescoes and the photography one would find in Playboy); people who can't tell the difference between the two need to have their heads examined, as obviously they're picking up on things that mentally sound individuals wouldn't.

I haven't seen the art in question (nor will I be likely to in the near future, given the political climate in the U.S. right now), but as long as the photographs were tasteful and nonsexual then I fail to see how this could be considered a case of child pornography. Censorship and artistic persecution make me sick.
Technowitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 06:10 PM   #14
BLEED REBELION!!!
 
BLEED REBELION!!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Nagoya, Aichi, Japan
Posts: 1,679
http://www.sauer-thompson.com/junkfo...enson-6-u.html


theres the picture....


I dont really have a problem with that...
__________________
"Yo tengo la empanada empinada"
- Me


" I love 4play! Its the best thing I've ever done"
- My Boyfriend
BLEED REBELION!!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 06:26 PM   #15
Technowitch
 
Technowitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: In cyberspace.
Posts: 78
...That's it? Seriously? That image is what has people all up in arms? I can't believe that anyone would mistake that photograph for CP. There's no sexual component to the piece whatsoever, it's just a little girl standing there.

My faith in humanity has just plummeted further.
Technowitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 06:28 PM   #16
HumanePain
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks for posting the link Bleed. This image conveys to me the girl's thoughts of childhood's end, and crossing the point of no return. She is entering womanhood and perhaps has even begun her menstrual cycle; her blush gives away her mind and emotions in turmoil as she experiences her development amidst nature's hormonal push and feels confused or unsure of herself and maybe even alone, unable to talk to anyone about what she is going through. A very heavy and thoughtful work in my opinion.
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_wA-WdI4
Charlie Chaplin The Greatest Speech in History


HumanePain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 07:06 PM   #17
Godslayer Jillian
 
Godslayer Jillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
Yet all this opens a dilemma for me.
An 'artist' in South America captured a street dog, put a collar on hid neck, and tied him at an art gallery and let him starve to death and called it art.
I think it's monstrous. And assuming most of you agree with me on this, then I have to ask:
Why is it that we can condemn the act I mentioned as monstrous but we can't allow people to condemn the one of this thread as immoral?
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.

I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
Godslayer Jillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 07:08 PM   #18
HumanePain
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
Blog Entries: 4
Because no one was harmed in the former. The latter killed an animal capable of bonding with humans with affection. It was cruel. No cruelty was shown to the girl.
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_wA-WdI4
Charlie Chaplin The Greatest Speech in History


HumanePain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 07:10 PM   #19
Godslayer Jillian
 
Godslayer Jillian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: El Paso, Texas/ Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua
Posts: 9,203
Hah, I like that answer. I'll use it; whether it's a justification or a rationalization, it works for me.
__________________
"No theory, no ready-made system, no book that has ever been written will save the world.

I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
Godslayer Jillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 07:39 PM   #20
HumanePain
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
Blog Entries: 4
At its root is the condemnation of beastly acts, descending into brutish behavior takes away from mankind and humanity, art raises mankind higher.

We have been through lower evolution (well, most of us anyway) and have been there, done that. We want something more enriching. Starving an animal to death is akin to caveman behavior. (thinks about livestock slaughter houses and shudders...)

The photo of the girl connects the viewer with the subject and the artist, it connects us all.

Starving the dog is repulsive, it ostracizes the artist, and separates us.
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_wA-WdI4
Charlie Chaplin The Greatest Speech in History


HumanePain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 07:41 PM   #21
emeraldlonewoulf
 
emeraldlonewoulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 750 mi north of AZ equivalent to Derry, Maine
Posts: 673
wow. they're discussing now!.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormboy
Here here. It's similar to those statues of the naked human form in Italy. Ask the locals about people having problems with them being "sexual", they will tell you, "If you look at those pieces of art and get sexually aroused, the problem isn't the art, it's you."

exactly. I wonder, what could be found on the computer hard drives of those who condemn this artwork the loudest?



and HP, I doubt even cavemen would uselessly starve an animal; they might eat it, or adopt it, but why keep an animal that is no use to you, and a danger to the vulnerable ones for which you are responsible? No, that kind of behavior can only come from the lax labor, ennui, and cruelty of at least minor civilization, IMHO.
__________________
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with catsup." - unknown



question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormtrooper of Death
(shouts) WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG??!!?
answer:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows
Because some people are dicks. And not everyone else is gay.
emeraldlonewoulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2008, 07:45 PM   #22
HumanePain
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: the concrete and steel beehive of Southern California
Posts: 7,449
Blog Entries: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldlonewoulf
I wonder, what could be found on the computer hard drives of those who condemn this artwork the loudest?
Haha! Judge not, least ye be judged eh?

I admire beauty wherever it may be found. I admire the pictures in the Picture thread, and not just the females. Beauty brings one close to heaven, to the angels. And fallen angels are among some of the most beautiful.
__________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKm_wA-WdI4
Charlie Chaplin The Greatest Speech in History


HumanePain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2008, 09:35 PM   #23
korinna5555
 
korinna5555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NoVA
Posts: 5,290
For me, this gets into topfree rights and gender equality. I find it pathetic that a young female's nipples are automatically "sexual", "pedo", and "pornography", while I can guarantee that if that picture was of a young boy, nobody would give a shit (public swimming pools, anyone?!) Might I point out that human breasts, be they male or female, have the same composition? Boobs are for feeding babies anyway, for christ's sake..
I am now incredibly irritated. Yargh. It makes me want to go to DC and protest. Topfree rights are actually protected in DC..
__________________
Autonomy Not Uniformity
korinna5555 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2008, 09:51 PM   #24
TheBloodEternity
 
TheBloodEternity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,780
I heard about the dog thing on deviant.ART (why does it censor that???) that's awful.
The thing is, even if this isn't pornographic and as of now the girl has not been harmed, when she gets older she might feel a little weird about it, you know?
TheBloodEternity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2008, 09:57 PM   #25
TopHaggardDoll
 
TopHaggardDoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 865
I just saw the picture, it's gorgeous and was done extremely tastefully.
I don't see sexuality in it atall....just vulnerability and beauty, very dreamlike.

If you see pornography in that image, there is something extremely wrong with you. Plus if you censor images because of certain people, you're letting them win. All about fear, isn't it? It's fear that condems things that should not be condemed

Sad really.
__________________
~:She Is Your Suffering:~
TopHaggardDoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:43 AM.