"Liberal" people.

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

Bah, when it comes to taxes, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "liberal" anymore. The Dems say "We're going to raise taxes to pay for" something or another, and the Reps say "No new taxes!" and then go and raise taxes anyway. As far as I know, all other parties are the same.

True, that.

[Megansmom]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Yep. Liberals. They are all about uniformity. That's why I don't like liberals. Instead of people having a sense of self expression, liberals will assume that children can't help themselves and make base judgments on appearance alone, all the while, stifling the individual child and insulting the character of every single individual on the subject. Liberals, institutionalizing childhood and self discovery since forever. Great job.

Oh, let's not forget that a nationwide smoking ban is also a liberal ideal, that brought down to a local level tells business owners that they don't know how to maintain a smoking and nonsmoking section. No, they wont say, "Hey, install air filters in your place of business", they'll just outright tell smokers they're not allowed to have a smoking section in places of business.

Wow, you know what... liberals are fucking assholes.

Couldn't have said it better , except for the outfit I'm making for my daughter to wear the first day of school next year. A public high school that has decided that uniforms are a good thing and everyone on the school board can bite my tushie.
Don't forget in California they are trying to pass a bill to tell you how warm and cool to keep your home and how much and what you can eat in a restaurant based on your size. And in New York no trans fats are allowed . Liberals taking care of us because we ain't smart enough to take care of ourselves.
How ever , if you say you can accept someones life style because it is their personal choice it's called acceptance and tolerance. Big difference from liberal.

[JCC]

Hmm. Seems like there's a lot of conflicting opinions on what liberalism is.

I'm a social liberal. I support moderate gun control, because obviously a gun is meant to harm. In the UK, gun control is fantastic, hardly anyone owns a gun and while knife crime is still a problem, at least there's not that many people getting shot in the face.

Ultimately I'd like a socialist society, but it's not going to happen any time soon, so I tend to be on the side of moderate to low taxation, making healthcare and education free to an extent by way of being funded by tax, that way there's no significant class divide between who gets healthcare and education.

My opinion of school uniform is varied. There's too many pros and cons for me to make a decision at this point considering that I really don't care particularly about it. I'm in my school uniform at the moment, it's not particularly restrictive but sometimes I'd like non-uniform. Though, people struggling financially would end up wearing a lot of the same clothes which tends to lead to bullying. I don't know, it requires some more deliberation on my part.

I believe in a small government, so that's rather Republican really.

My liberalism is left-liberalism, so, gay rights, abortion, free trade (laissez-faire free market, which is opposed by some social liberals, but I don't care), looser immigration laws, universal health care, stem cell research, same-sex marriage, complete separation of church and state, legalisation of victimless crime, all the good stuff.

[Disaffected Shoelaces]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Yep. Liberals. They are all about uniformity. That's why I don't like liberals. Instead of people having a sense of self expression, liberals will assume that children can't help themselves and make base judgments on appearance alone, all the while, stifling the individual child and insulting the character of every single individual on the subject. Liberals, institutionalizing childhood and self discovery since forever. Great job.

It's not about uniformity, it's about creating a level playing field. It's a fact that some children and teenagers can be shallow about things like dress, and uniforms are a way of simplifying the situation. I'm not saying we're all incapable of looking beneath the surface, and yeah, it sucks that those of us who don't judge on appearence have to wear the same bloody grey jumper as the people who do. But that seems better to me than having people bullied for not being able to afford what's in.

It also has the added plus of making people define themselves by something other than the way they look. Is what you're wearing really THAT crucial a part of self-expression? If it is I don't personally see that as a good thing.

This is just my opinion, of course, and I don't think there are any perfect solutions to issues like this. Just damage limitation.

[cradle]

Hm.
Maybe you shouldn't care what preface they use?
It is what it is...If they don't want people to think they are something they are not, they can go ahead and use any preface they want.

I'm not gay, but being gay is not a negative thing in any way whatsoever.

There we go...

[Disaffected Shoelaces]

Originally Posted by cradle

I'm not gay, but being gay is not a negative thing in any way whatsoever.

There we go...

HOMOPHOBE!!

[cradle]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

No, it's PERFECTLY fair. Liberalism is about FORCING equality. It's essentially mob rule when left unchecked. Essentially, a group of people tell YOU what's good for you. That they know what's best for you instead of you deciding for yourself. They want to protect you from you.

Conservatism, of course, is tyranny and one-man-rules-all when left unchecked. Which is why I don't like the idea of a perfectly free market. It's an enabler for feudalism and lords.

You know, when left unchecked, everything sucks, just about.
It's all about what sucks less than the other.
I'm saying this in a political sense, not literally everything.

[DepthsofSpace]

Originally Posted by JCC

My liberalism is left-liberalism, so, gay rights, abortion, free trade (laissez-faire free market, which is opposed by some social liberals, but I don't care), looser immigration laws, universal health care, stem cell research, same-sex marriage, complete separation of church and state, legalisation of victimless crime, all the good stuff.

Some of that is contradicting what you said earlier, but you sound like a libertarian there...

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Disaffected Shoelaces

It's not about uniformity, it's about creating a level playing field. It's a fact that some children and teenagers can be shallow about things like dress, and uniforms are a way of simplifying the situation. I'm not saying we're all incapable of looking beneath the surface, and yeah, it sucks that those of us who don't judge on appearence have to wear the same bloody grey jumper as the people who do. But that seems better to me than having people bullied for not being able to afford what's in.

It also has the added plus of making people define themselves by something other than the way they look. Is what you're wearing really THAT crucial a part of self-expression? If it is I don't personally see that as a good thing.

This is just my opinion, of course, and I don't think there are any perfect solutions to issues like this. Just damage limitation.

Level playing field my ass. My friends and I didn't have the latest and greatest gear in school. You think we gave a damn?

"I don't want my poor child to get picked on." Bullshit. Teach your kids to have a little teeth about them.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by DepthsofSpace

you sound like a libertarian there...

From what I know of libertarianism, the glove fits.

[Disaffected Shoelaces]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

"I don't want my poor child to get picked on." Bullshit. Teach your kids to have a little teeth about them.

So... teach your not-so-poor kid to develop an identity that doesn't depend on what they're wearing.

You're acting like complaining about bullying based on poverty is the hallmark of a whiny pussy, yet pissing and moaning because you can't wear leather and chains to school is a laudable call for free expression.

[Linen]

Originally Posted by Mir

Get over here!

ROTFLMAO!!!

Am I the only one who heard that in the voice of Scorpion from Mortal Combat?

Or... ? *hides*


*Ahem* Anyway, I am about as liberal as it gets, but I don't agree with school uniforms. Was never aware of that being a "liberal" thing.

I wanted Dennis Kucinich to be President. He is awesome. He is the only politician I feel I can trust. (Yeah, I know that sounds contrary, but you catch my drift).

[Solumina]

I thought of Scorpion too.

Having worked in local government (where I interacted with our officials professionally, as a citizen advocate, as well as on a very personal level outside of politics) I can say that there are some very trustworthy politicians out there but there are far more unsavory characters so most people think that the good ones are just faking it

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Disaffected Shoelaces

So... teach your not-so-poor kid to develop an identity that doesn't depend on what they're wearing.

If people would actually do that, there wouldn't be a need for uniforms. Right? It's the liberals that are making the issues about clothing and how it promotes classism.

You're acting like complaining about bullying based on poverty is the hallmark of a whiny pussy, yet pissing and moaning because you can't wear leather and chains to school is a laudable call for free expression.

The only kids complaining about uniforms are the ones who don't make clothing an issue. Which is a lot of them. Now as for me making issues about liberals. Well yeah. A lot of liberal ideas are dumb.

[Solumina]

A lot of ideas in general are dumb, not just liberal ideas

[KontanKarite]

Yeah, like conservatives trying to keep the 10 commandments or something like that in the government.

[Wormboy]

They should replace them with Carlin's three commandments:

1) Always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie
2) Try really hard not to kill anyone
3) Keep thy religion to thyself

[Disaffected Shoelaces]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

If people would actually do that, there wouldn't be a need for uniforms. Right?

Of course, if we lived in a perfect world.

But developing a "fuck you, Imma' be proud of mah pikey clothes" attitude will not deter bullies. That's like saying "ignore them and they'll go away". Not true, ask anyone who's been severely picked on.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

It's the liberals that are making the issues about clothing and how it promotes classism.

Nice try, but identifying an issue isn't necessarily the same as creating it.

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

The only kids complaining about uniforms are the ones who don't make clothing an issue. Which is a lot of them. Now as for me making issues about liberals. Well yeah. A lot of liberal ideas are dumb.

The "only" people who bitch about uniforms are those to whom clothes aren't a big deal? How many people did you poll when gathering the data for that sweeping statement? (Your immediate friend group doesn't count, by the way.) I'm not especially bothered by uniforms and I don't give a great deal of thought to what I wear.

Yes, there are dumb left-wing ideas. There are dumb right-wing ideas. There are dumb ideas arising from pretty much any school of thought you care to name.

[KontanKarite]

Yes, I did collect that data through scientific observation, a nation-wide poll, and a deck of Tarot cards. So shut the fuck up, commie. I mean, damn. They're just clothes. I don't see why you gotta make such a big deal about clothes so much.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

I don't see why you gotta make such a big deal about clothes so much.

Why do you?

Also I'm pretty sure that school uniform actually flies in the face of liberalism.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by JCC

Why do you?

Also I'm pretty sure that school uniform actually flies in the face of liberalism.

I don't know what you're talking about. If I made a big deal about clothes, I'd be in favor of uniforms.

[Disaffected Shoelaces]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Yes, I did collect that data through scientific observation, a nation-wide poll, and a deck of Tarot cards. So shut the fuck up, commie. I mean, damn. They're just clothes. I don't see why you gotta make such a big deal about clothes so much.

You countered my point. I replied to you. It's not a big deal - not to me, anyway.

Clearly your logic is bullet-proof, and I was a fool to think that I could take on such a fine mind. The incisive approach to the issue in your above statement has convinced me that uniforms are in fact the greatest threat to free expression since some killjoy decided that children should be quiet while their teachers are clarifying difficult subjects. Thank you for opening my eyes, I was labouring under the illusion that schools are for learning.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Disaffected Shoelaces

You countered my point. I replied to you. It's not a big deal - not to me, anyway.

Clearly your logic is bullet-proof, and I was a fool to think that I could take on such a fine mind. The incisive approach to the issue in your above statement has convinced me that uniforms are in fact the greatest threat to free expression since some killjoy decided that children should be quiet while their teachers are clarifying difficult subjects. Thank you for opening my eyes, I was labouring under the illusion that schools are for learning.

You spelled laboring wrong. Also, I'm glad you finally see the light. At least you said one thing half way intelligent, "Schools are for learning". You're not too entirely hopeless yet.

[Disaffected Shoelaces]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

You spelled laboring wrong.

No, I spelled it the British way, because I'm from England.

Spin again.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Disaffected Shoelaces

No, I spelled it the British way, because I'm from England.

Spin again.

Well the English should learn how to spell in their own damned language. It's a shame an American southern dandy had to correct someone from England. You're from the motherland, damn it. You should be correcting me.