To see is to be.

[Versus]

So I've recently come to the conclusion that there is something fundamentally wrong with me. I'm looking for feedback in how I can change it, but before I get to that, I feel it's necessary to explain the reasoning that brought me to that conclusion.

When we live our lives, we come to develop certain values and begin to establish the fundamentals of our characters based on our individual experiences. Those experiences begin to function as a sort of lens on our perceptions of the world.

For example, the young woman/old woman illusion. Some people see a young woman, and some see an old woman.

And the problem with this is that generally, the first thing we see if the only thing we see. Upon encountering similar experiences, it is often that the lens I spoke of begins to distort reality so as not to conflict with our established values and character. Cognitive Dissonance. Just as a map is only a representation of a territory, the map that we shape in order to explain our lives is not always accurate to the territory.

For example, if you were to suddenly wake up in a different city, your first line of thought might be that you are in a different part of your own city, rather then a completely new one.

After much thought, I have come to the conclusion that my map is incorrect in some areas. Honestly, I don't think I can interact with most people on anything more then a casual level anymore.

I can't imagine myself working at Home Depot or Best Buy and listening to a co-worker talk about how hot it is, or how having to run to the bus stop was an awful start to their day. It is rare that I legitimately feel any kind of compassion for such things, because in my mind they are beyond trivial. My first reaction is generally one of anger. Even in serious complaints, like hearing someone say a relative recently died, or when they recount something traumatic in their lives. It is impossible for anyone to confide in me because I don't often even feel sympathy on a basic level. It's like I dehumanize people who try to trust me.

I have conscientiously changed my behavior, but that is only a quick fix to maintain less-then-intimate relationships. It won't hold up for long. My specific point that I would like advice on is how I can change the way I see the world so I may perceive reality as it actually is.

[HumanePain]

Read Ralph Waldo Emerson's Nature. He speaks about individual perception and the integration and place of ego with observation, in a way that helps one to take, as you say, "trivial" things and give them grandeur and beauty.

[Fruitbat]

HP - sounds like an interesting book

Versus - let me know when you figure it out.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Read Ralph Waldo Emerson's Nature. He speaks about individual perception and the integration and place of ego with observation, in a way that helps one to take, as you say, "trivial" things and give them grandeur and beauty.

At a glance, it reminds me of a thought that once occurred to me concerning a desire to live in the moment.

That's right. I've been thinking again. Thinking about my thinking, actually. I don't think it's a secret, but I'm a dreamer. I completely lose myself in my thoughts. Sometimes they're slow thoughts, vivid and articulate. I guess these are flights of fancy? The kind that I labor to make perfect. And then sometimes they're rapid and incomplete. Like a monkey that swings from tree to tree, but isn't really sure where he's going. One thought is but a seed for the next, unrelated in focus but at the same time similar in context. But despite how active my mind is or isn't, I've found a motif that unsettles me. My thoughts are always in motion about the past, or about the future. They are not still, or ever about what I'm experiencing. Naked feet embracing for warmth. Gravity anchoring me to my seat. The rise of my diaphragm as I breathe in, and the rush of hot air through my nostrils as I breathe out. I withdraw from reality, and I think that's the reason why the last two years feel vague and... unlived? (See Whoosh. You know?) How many times have I gone through the motions of something I do everyday and not really remembered doing it afterward? It was... a haze. It got the wheels turning, to say the least. I had a slight epiphany, I guess. All the things I enjoy, I'm rushed through by distractions. I don't savor anything anymore. I'm so lost in my own head that I don't come out for even the good things that I am surrounded by. It was in my assumption that I already know about the things that I take for granted that it started. But I don't know. Things change everyday. I'm resolving to look at everything like it's a first time. Engagement. Just being still and taking everything for what it is, not what I expect or remember it to be. It's not a goal that I'm confessing. Goals are about the future, and probably the source of my distress. It's only about the moment.

I found it, but I don't think I can read it today. He doesn't speak plainly, and I'm just not in the mood to think about what I'm reading.

Versus - let me know when you figure it out.

Sure.

[Fruitbat]

Espoused theory and theory in practice.

I went looking through for some of my university references but I have lost all my work.

Maybe look at some of Edward De Bono's work - maybe something like the six thinking hats (quite a useful experiment).

Thomas Berry is another author but he's on the cosmology/eco-spiritualist path - might be a bit too out there for you at the moment.

Sounds like you have some trauma, which is stopping you from connecting with others - maybe perhaps?

Start journalling. Get your feelings down always helps.

[TheFeatheredÆtheling]

I won't pretend that my opinion is relevant in this place, but I'll give it to you anyway. Feelings are not as important as deeds. It's not necessary that you feel compassion; it's important that you show it. This is exactly the same case with respect and love. Personally speaking, I know that I have limited control over my emotions; they are not static and cannot be solely relied upon. However, I do know what I believe to be the right way to live, and I try to live in such a way regardless of my emotional state. One is not judged by his feelings but by his actions. True strength is doing the right thing in spite of any hindrance, even one's own feelings.

[vindicatedxjin]

Well put!

[KontanKarite]

You ever want to talk, just PM me.

Sometimes I'm capable of giving sage advice. But I am a damn good listener and you can feel free to vent to me if you ever need to get shit off your chest.

[ape descendant]

You could always borrow some one's shoes and walk a mile in them...

[Versus]

Espoused theory and theory in practice.

From my understanding of this, it's "What you think you would do" and "What you actually do." I want to say that, right now, they align pretty well. There isn't really any disharmony in my intentions and actions. My problem is that my intentions aren't congruent with my interpretation of a good person.

Sounds like you have some trauma, which is stopping you from connecting with others - maybe perhaps?

Maybe. I don't really feel "traumatized." I think it's something that just developed from thinking a certain way, or experiencing certain situations. Like a habit, I think.

I won't pretend that my opinion is relevant in this place, but I'll give it to you anyway. Feelings are not as important as deeds. It's not necessary that you feel compassion; it's important that you show it. This is exactly the same case with respect and love. Personally speaking, I know that I have limited control over my emotions; they are not static and cannot be solely relied upon. However, I do know what I believe to be the right way to live, and I try to live in such a way regardless of my emotional state. One is not judged by his feelings but by his actions. True strength is doing the right thing in spite of any hindrance, even one's own feelings.

Normally, I might be inclined to agree with you, but I don't in this instance. I agree that actions speak louder then words, but:

1) My concern is not that others see my response, but what my response is in the first place.

2) My true feelings become very apparent in closing relationships because they dictate my behavior. Words, as well as actions.

I'm a very... expressive person. I have difficulty lying to people or faking enthusiasm. I can tweak my behavior to lubricate interaction, but only to a certain degree. I don't mean to say I can't function without expressing myself, but more that I have difficulty insincerely apologizing, for example.

But like I said, what I'm asking is how we can forcefully change how we look at the world.

You ever want to talk, just PM me.

Sometimes I'm capable of giving sage advice. But I am a damn good listener and you can feel free to vent to me if you ever need to get shit off your chest.

It's nothing like that. I'm not in any kind of distress. Thank you, though.

[vindicatedxjin]

I don't think there's anything you can "do" at the moment to just change who you are, or how you think of things. I'm not going to say I know exactly how you feel or whats going on in your head but I'm at a point in life where I'm frustrated with myself as well. In the past year I've been going through a transition of being a hardcore christian, to an atheist.

I've lost my faith and this has been a really, really tough thing...considering the fact that at one point god was in control of everything. Now that it's just me, I've begun to dislike many things that I never even considered before. I've also found myself hating the fact that I can't let go of my mindset, just because it's been so imbedded into me.
This might be not be helpful in any way but I guess what I'm trying to say, is that change is gradual.

You can't just force yourself to be different.

[ape descendant]

I think that you've already started the process by realizing the situation in the first place. We all have the ability to examine ourselves and affect change. It isn't an easy process though.

I think the first thing you may want to discover, is the person you want to be. What sort of qualities do you want to have as a part of yourself? Once you have that figured out, pick one and immerse yourself in it, educate yourself about it and seek out people who have that quality, repeat until you are happy with the results. Then you can move on to the next thing.

Re-evaluating one's own beliefs and actions isn't easy. It is far easier to cling to what one has always believed instead of giving up the security of the familiar to explore new ways of thinking and being.

At first it will almost certainly be overwhelming and quite frightening leaving an established comfort zone, but I think that its worth it to prevent a stinking stagnation of the mind.

Jin- I know what its like to go from being very religious to being an atheist, it can be quite overwhelming at first... if you need to talk or vent, feel free to PM me. Sometimes it helps to have some one who's been through the process to lend an empathetic ear.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Another thing that might be helpful is to ask yourself why you react to complaints and such in this way.
Then you can work on how you want to react. Every time you catch yourself reacting in the way you don't want, think about why, and why you want to react the other way, and why they're behaving the way they are (a cold walk to the bus may ruin someone's day if they don't have enough natural insulation, for example).

It's kind of a cognitive-behavioural therapy thing, which I don't really know *that* much about beyond 2nd year psychology.

[Fruitbat]

What AD and Labelle said above.

I had to do a major life change in 1999, when I left a really abusive relationship.

I almost went back because that it was the easy solution. I knew how to deal with the abuse. I had no idea how to deal with the world and people, came out with PTSD and really was all over the place with moods etc

I had to rebuild myself, literally from the ground up. I started to eavesdrop, to find out how other people handled situations to gauge what was an appropriate response to certain situations.

I found out I can't fake anything. I'm hopeless with doing the whole "Oh my god, isn't that dress just amazing, i can't believe you got it for $20" thing that girls are supposed to do, so I just say something ambiguous like "Wow, that's great" (which can cover either the bargain finding abilities, the colour/cut/style of the dress or just the sheer joy the other person received from the bargain).

I don't get along with a lot of girls, because I don't talk a lot (hard to believe I know) because I simply sound insincere when I do all the girl gushing stuff - heck I can't even do that when it comes to babybat.

If something 'bad' happens to someone - and that is subjective - it depends on what bad is to them, I'd say something like "That must have been pretty tough" or "That sucks that you got a parking ticket - man those sticker lickers are sticklers"

Being mindful helps. Constantly monitoring what you say, how you react to situations, learning to control your emotions - this is me all the time. Sometimes I let it all out (I like to drive).

Versus - we can change how we look at the world, how we react to situations. You have to do it gradually and when you slip up just learn from the experience, and not berate yourself for stuffing up.

You can change everything about yourself - if I can do it anyone can. The hardest was changing my immediate reactions. I would have to pause and monitor myself first run through a list of questions, responses (yeah it took awhile).

You can do it Versus. I know you can.

PM if you wanna chat. Sorry my post is all over the place, have to keep stopping to cut up strawberries for babybat's breakfast. Think he's just got a china plate in his hands... gotta go.

[Versus]

Hrm. I think everyone touched upon what I was looking for. Cheers to all. Seriously. I really appreciate it.

[Apathy's_Child]

A sociopathic type with just enough of a conscience to wish you weren't? Write your own series. Pitch to execs as the new Dexter. Rake in the cash.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

A sociopathic type with just enough of a conscience to wish you weren't? Write your own series. Pitch to execs as the new Dexter. Rake in the cash.

What? filler

[≈Mortal•Mælstrom≈]

haha this is great

[emeraldlonewoulf]

Versus- I don't think there is anything "fundamentally wrong" about either you or the outlook you speak of having. In fact, I think the outlook you seem to have naturally is more genuine, and more worthwhile than the one you desire. Kudos for being willing to consider another perspective, it shows you USE your brain. That being said, most shit people talk about IS stupid, trivial, pointless shit.

If you want to improve your social skills to increase your opportunities for meeting genuinely interesting people, that's wonderful. But don't equate the worth of conversations about the weather, little johnny's learning to shit in the toilet, or repetitive rehashing of the same comedy central episodes to the worth of real interaction. They are not the same.

Inane conversation is used to grease the wheels of society by DISTANCING people from one another, not to bring them closer. It affirms an apathetic interest in spoon fed culture, in rehashing the same things over and over.

Real human interaction is like sparks, creation, innovation. One idea builds on another, shared thought through conversation, like a ping pong ball going back and forth over a table, picking up new and interesting bits of perspective or knowledge each way.

Look for the real conversations, and revel in those.

Master inane conversation for the social TOOL it is, and understand that most people, even though they don't admit it, don't give a damn about the words coming out of their mouths to fill the silence. They don't usually actually give a damn about the weather, the latest musical group or whether or not you genuinely care either. For them, the more things you both 'agree" on, means it will be all the easier to convince you of something when your opinions differ. It is a tool for them to get what they want, much like money.

Look at inane, day to day conversation as exactly what it is, social capital. And like the monetary variety, invest wisely, but diversify. Every once in a great while, you end up with something wonderful, a real, good friend, teacher, or worthwhile student. That is worth putting a LOT more into. More often, you end up just generally being liked, which can pay off little by little over time. And sometimes, you lose, especially when you place trust, time commitments, or what you really are without really understanding what it is you have invested in.

All I'm saying is that I think your natural tendency is very valuable. It is also very human, and very honest. Don't be so quick to try to part with it. Maybe just try to master the new skill, in addition to the keeping natural talent.

[Versus]

Emeraldlonewoulf, you misunderstand my intent.

I am not trying to lubricate or grease the wheels of social interaction. I am not anti-social, and I do not have trouble communicating with people.

My concern is that, because of the way that I lived for a time, the way I look at other human beings is not only extremely negative, but undeniably unhealthy for any kind of relationship.

What gets me through is a personal matter, and it's bullshit for me to resent others for not sharing the same mindset.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Versus

From my understanding of this, it's "What you think you would do" and "What you actually do." I want to say that, right now, they align pretty well. There isn't really any disharmony in my intentions and actions. My problem is that my intentions aren't congruent with my interpretation of a good person.



Maybe. I don't really feel "traumatized." I think it's something that just developed from thinking a certain way, or experiencing certain situations. Like a habit, I think.



Normally, I might be inclined to agree with you, but I don't in this instance. I agree that actions speak louder then words, but:

1) My concern is not that others see my response, but what my response is in the first place.

2) My true feelings become very apparent in closing relationships because they dictate my behavior. Words, as well as actions.

I'm a very... expressive person. I have difficulty lying to people or faking enthusiasm. I can tweak my behavior to lubricate interaction, but only to a certain degree. I don't mean to say I can't function without expressing myself, but more that I have difficulty insincerely apologizing, for example.

But like I said, what I'm asking is how we can forcefully change how we look at the world.



It's nothing like that. I'm not in any kind of distress. Thank you, though.

I think I know what you're talking about then. But if you want to change the way you look at the world, you have to consider that maybe you don't have all the answers, which is more honest and leads to a little more soul searching.

Maybe I'm a little off, but I define a good person as an honest person. This doesn't make them an agreeable or even likable person.

[Murder.Of.Crows]

There was a time where i felt the same way. Mostly i found myself, just observing people. Calculating in a way, their actions. I don't think i suddenly stopped, but i tend to try, i guess, to be more human... I'm not really sure if I'm making since... I guess what i found, and i am not sure how or where, is how the human race kinda fits itself together, impossibly as well, and in that sort of mosaic effect i found beauty, i kinda stopped looking at us as coexisting animals and saw purpose, or at least a reason. However compassion, that is something i still lack the ability to feel.

[Catch]

Young or old women is fine with me. I think of young women having hope for life and old women developing character. Either one is complimentary.