If you eat meat, would you be willing to kill an animal to continue to be able to?

[Saya]

I asked you why you just didn't switch to dairy and you said you weren't vegan for ethical reason but nutritional, so the murder issue wasn't an issue for you, and yeah I have never ever heard of a disease where you can't eat digest plants.. I understand your viewpoint but I don't understand why the life of an animal has absolutely no value to you.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Just popping in for a response to Cicero:
In all honesty, I could care less about people's culture.

[Delkaetre]

Saya, it's not always a 'disease'. I know a couple of people who have more difficulty with plant matter than with meat. It's a personal biological or genetic quirk, similar to hair colour, freckles, tendency to burn in the sun, likelihood to get cancer in later life. I am one of these people.

And I know from experience that I'm no good on a vegetarian diet. I tried it when I was going out with a dedicated vegetarian and wanted to be able to order the same things as him without getting the evils that so very, very, very many vegans and vegetarians give omnivores who order meat at the same table as them. I've balanced my foods and eaten legumes and high-protein things, took advice from his parents who were both vegetarians the last ten or fifteen years, and all I did was feel tired, drained, ill, and notice that my bowels went all to hell. With meat in my diet, I am genuinely healthier.

I don't generally want to bring up my stint without meat in these sort of debates, as I get pilloried for abandoning ethics I never had in going back to meat, as well as being accused of doing it wrong and not eating properly when I was taking advice from people who'd been veggie for the past decade.

A meatless diet just is not practical for me. I do not love the fuzzy moo-cows enough to leave myself ill.

[Solumina]

I don't have a disease as Del said it is just a genetic quirk, I just don't process plant based protein well because there are a few co-enzymes that my body is unable to process properly, I don't process animal proteins 100% properly either but I am able to get all of the essentials from eating a wide variety, and I can't just drink milk because I am lactose intolerant. As it is I do still try and get a significant portion of my protein from plants, but I do need to supplement that with various other protein sources, eggs and hard cheeses just aren't enough (I'm lactose intolerant so any dairy other than hard cheeses is pretty much out of the question).


It also bothers me greatly when vegans say that I do not value animal life, I wouldn't have done so much to devote myself to preventing animal cruelty if that was the case, nor would I be such an advocate of small scale farming (of anything, plant or animal). I have done my research and believe it or not I can easily say that I am responsible for far less death and animal suffering than many of the vegans I know.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Solumina

It also bothers me greatly when vegans say that I do not value animal life, I wouldn't have done so much to devote myself to preventing animal cruelty if that was the case, nor would I be such an advocate of small scale farming (of anything, plant or animal). I have done my research and believe it or not I can easily say that I am responsible for far less death and animal suffering than many of the vegans I know.

As the vegan outreach society says on it's website "Any effort made to spare an animal suffering should be commended."

[Solumina]

That doesn't seem to stop many vegans from telling me what a bad, evil person I am. I know that not all vegans are abrasive and that there are many who are accepting (if not understanding) of people who eat meat, I do have some close vegan friends after all, but much like Christians it is the loud, obnoxious, condescending pricks that seem to be most noticeable and they tend to leave a negative impression of vegans as a whole.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Just popping in for a response to Cicero:
In all honesty, I could care less about people's culture.

I hope you realise by saying 'could' care less you're implying that you do, in fact, care...

But if you meant 'couldn't', all I can really suggest is to travel outside your home country and experience other cultures and lifestyles for yourself. Or take an Anthropology class or something.

[Corpsey]

Hahahaha. Always a nit-pick over such a small thing as " 'nt. "

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I hope you realise by saying 'could' care less you're implying that you do, in fact, care...

But if you meant 'couldn't', all I can really suggest is to travel outside your home country and experience other cultures and lifestyles for yourself. Or take an Anthropology class or something.

Couldn't, you're right, apologies on that.

I've taken anthro classes (I do quite well in them actually).

Let me put context on my statement.

I believe certain things are universal (this is, without saying, my opinion).
I believe that your culture is great and beautiful and all that, but it comes SECOND to life. If your culture dictates that all boys need to get a large nose piercing with a bone... fine. If it requires you worship the sun god, fine.
If it requires to taking the life of another creature when it was not needed, then I do not and will not support it. In regards to the taking of life, I could not care less about culture.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Solumina

That doesn't seem to stop many vegans from telling me what a bad, evil person I am. I know that not all vegans are abrasive and that there are many who are accepting (if not understanding) of people who eat meat, I do have some close vegan friends after all, but much like Christians it is the loud, obnoxious, condescending pricks that seem to be most noticeable and they tend to leave a negative impression of vegans as a whole.

PETA isn't helping our PR either. I believe it is up to everyone to do what they can. I belief the lives of animals are important, but your own life should be more important to you than the life of a chicken or cow or republican or any other animal life.

[Anarasha]

I really don't think I could. The cow would look at me with it's huge eyes and moo, and then I simply wouldn't be able to do it.

[PortraitOfSanity]

Save a cow, eat a vegan.

[Godslayer Jillian]

There's a girl in the Student Development Center that has a sticker with that.
She's all around a bitch. Heavily conservative and hates to help student organizations which is supposed to be her job.
Plus she's fugly.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Anarasha

I really don't think I could. The cow would look at me with it's huge eyes and moo, and then I simply wouldn't be able to do it.

That's why you come in from behind.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Couldn't, you're right, apologies on that.

I've taken anthro classes (I do quite well in them actually).

Let me put context on my statement.

I believe certain things are universal (this is, without saying, my opinion).
I believe that your culture is great and beautiful and all that, but it comes SECOND to life. If your culture dictates that all boys need to get a large nose piercing with a bone... fine. If it requires you worship the sun god, fine.
If it requires to taking the life of another creature when it was not needed, then I do not and will not support it. In regards to the taking of life, I could not care less about culture.

That context sort of reverses the meaning of your statement (along with the 'nt' at the end of could, haha). And I agree to that extent, since obviously there are elements of culture that are perfectly harmless and fine, and others that people could easily live without - female circumcision for example.

But unfortunately acquiring food, especially meat, is a huge part of some cultures, without which the culture would cease to exist (it's already happening to the Penan in Borneo, and it's nothing short of tragic). That's where global veganism, already a very silly idea obviously, would really fuck things up.

Then again I'm also dead against missionaries going into New Guinea trying to bring an end to cannibalism. It starts as an innocent 'how about you guys stop eating each other' and ends with rickety little churches and a devastating lack of penis gourds and bat bone piercings. Sickening.

[PortraitOfSanity]

I'd totally buy a Cicero-made penis gourd...

[Cicero]

Hmmm... My Etsy store could do with a few male-oriented pieces.

Fuck it, I'm totally going to make one.

[Stabby]

Meat you kill yourself tastes better.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by PortraitOfSanity

Save a cow, eat a vegan.

Save the dignity and self-respect of internet users, destroy oft-repeated but never funny catchphrases.

[Seth Whisper]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Couldn't, you're right, apologies on that.

I've taken anthro classes (I do quite well in them actually).

Let me put context on my statement.

I believe certain things are universal (this is, without saying, my opinion).
I believe that your culture is great and beautiful and all that, but it comes SECOND to life. If your culture dictates that all boys need to get a large nose piercing with a bone... fine. If it requires you worship the sun god, fine.
If it requires to taking the life of another creature when it was not needed, then I do not and will not support it. In regards to the taking of life, I could not care less about culture.

Life is fleeting...death is eternal. The celebration of life requires one to respect death for what it is...a birthright. To deny your birthright is to deny life, therefore your inability to respect the taking of life indicates your disrespect of it.

In all seriousness I don't mean to disrespect your viewpoint, but your opinion is just that, an opinion. You are not right, nor are you wrong. EVERY culture takes life. You think that eating plants isn't destroying life? Don't think that by not killing something with eyes that you are any more righteous than anyone else....you do your part to destroy the planet just like everyone else. THAT is life.

[Godslayer Jillian]

That was a terrible argument.

[Seth Whisper]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

That was a terrible argument.

That was a terrible response.

[Godslayer Jillian]

How so? It's the best and shortest response anyone would have given. You're just hurt.

[tyciol]

Not right away, but after a long enough time without meat I might possibly work myself up to it.

That said, it`s not something I feel as a priority, so I`d change my personality a bit and it might take a couple years to work up to that point.

My guess is I would work myself up from ugly tiny animals (I have already killed and gutted fish) to the more human-like animals such as deer.

The thing is, I don`t particularly like venison (I think I tried it once) and I like beef much more, and cows are uglier and easier to kill, so I don`t think I`d ever need to kill a deer unless there weren`t any more cows.

Stranded in the wilderness you need protein and there aren`t any whey milkshakes so you will have to kill animals eventually.

[honeythorn]

What difference does it make what the animals look like?