Goth: Your Opinion

[SKULHEDFACE]

I've decided to make a topic similar to the "What does Emo mean to you?" thread. If a similar thread already exists I apologize in advance and hope that someone will kindly redirect me to it.

While I am still a fresh member I must say that these forums are not what I would expect from a site composed of goths. I have to admit that on more than one occasion I have found myself staring at my monitor screen in shock, dismay, and confusion. So the inevitable question is presenting itself. What does GOTH mean to you?

I'm not trying to start a flame-war and hope that we can all go about this in a civil fashion. I am simply curious to know the varying opinions of gothic.net's user base.

[Man In Room 5]

Part of the problem is that a lot of people here claim they're not goth at all. Which leads to the question of, why are they here. However, they're in good company. Peter Murphy, Robert Smith and Andrew Eldritch all denied being goth at one time or another too. It seems part of being goth is distancing yourself from the goth stereotype because the mall goths play into the stereotype so badly and the real goths are the ones who can find new, original ways to play on goth images.

[gothicusmaximus]

Goths don't make threads called "Goth: Your Opinion."

[SKULHEDFACE]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Goths don't make threads called "Goth: Your Opinion."

I didn't think they made feeble attempts, utterly devoid of depth or wit, to insult strangers over the internet either. These days I'm finding that I am correct about fewer and fewer things.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by SKULHEDFACE

I didn't think they made feeble attempts, utterly devoid of depth or wit, to insult strangers over the internet either. These days I'm finding that I am correct about fewer and fewer things.

It's good news, though. Just quit making threads called 'Goth: Your Opinion' and you'll be even more goth than I am.
I have to know what you expected to find on a forum composed of goths. It should be hilarious.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

It's good news, though. Just quit making threads called 'Goth: Your Opinion' and you'll be even more goth than I am.
I have to know what you expected to find on a forum composed of goths. It should be hilarious.

Many bats will be shat.

[gothicusmaximus]

I bet you've been waiting to use that one for a while.

[SKULHEDFACE]

For starters I didn't expect to see so many of our beloved g.net's users flocking to the aid of females simply because they're females. For some strange reason I thought the majority of you kindly folks would be far less shallow. However I see it happening enough that I am now aware that this site, as with all others, is not immune to internet white knights.

Secondly I honestly didn't expect to see so many cheerful individuals. I'm not complaining about people being happy, but I'm sure you can understand my dismay upon reading posts such as *hugs* and other over the top cutesy antics.

Nor did I expect to see such an abundance of non-native English speakers. Again, not a problem, just something that I did not personally expect to see so much of here.

I did expect to see more interesting and intriguing topics on a day-to-day basis. What I am finding is a ridiculous amount of silly forums games that are pages and pages deep, and who I doubt anyone actually reads all of.

I think that should suffice for starters.

Is it so hard for you to put into writing what goth means to you? It was a simple question that was only brought on by my curiosity of this site's large and diverse user base.

[Minyaliel]

Gothicus, shut up. He´s asked a question, if you´ve no plans to answer it in a civil manner, then please show yourself as the mature individual you possibly might be and show some manners.

Skulhedface, you should not take the internet as a barometre on how things look in the goth scene. Most goths I know are fun, well- mannered and helpful souls who´re just great to hang out with.

Anyway, your question, as I take it is what my personal understanding of goth is. It is an artistic movement that grew into a subculture some time during the course of its lifetime. It is based in the musical arts, but spawned several other artistic expressions, like fashion, along the way. In a sense it would now more properly be named an aesthetic movement than a subculture, or so I think, because of its wide variety of visual expressions (deathrock, cybergoth and romantic goth really do not look the same even though they are based on the same principles). Even so, music is still its foundation, music and a sense of the macabre and its place in everyday life.

[Alarica]

I read many times now, that Robert smith, like a lot of goths, didnt like being called 1 or calling himself 1, because he didnt agree with labels. Not sure how much truth there is in that mind you.

[Man In Room 5]

It goes back to my belief that most message boards are pretty much the same regardless of theme. Real goths certainly come here--but they don't come here only for gothic reasons. They come here to discuss the same crap most people are discussing on other boards.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by SKULHEDFACE

For starters I didn't expect to see so many of our beloved g.net's users flocking to the aid of females simply because they're females. For some strange reason I thought the majority of you kindly folks would be far less shallow. However I see it happening enough that I am now aware that this site, as with all others, is not immune to internet white knights.

I know Humane does this, although I think he does it because he doesn't think its right to make fun of young people in general, but where else have we defended someone for just being a girl?

Secondly I honestly didn't expect to see so many cheerful individuals. I'm not complaining about people being happy, but I'm sure you can understand my dismay upon reading posts such as *hugs* and other over the top cutesy antics.

Usually when we do *hugs* or something like that its because we do like each other.

Nor did I expect to see such an abundance of non-native English speakers. Again, not a problem, just something that I did not personally expect to see so much of here.

I did expect to see more interesting and intriguing topics on a day-to-day basis. What I am finding is a ridiculous amount of silly forums games that are pages and pages deep, and who I doubt anyone actually reads all of.

Hey people in international countries have the interwebz too, imagine that!

You'd have to be stupid to even attempt to read pages and pages of word association game, you just need to read the first post to understand how to play the game and then jump in. Games are a way to boost your post count, which can be important if you want to PM someone but it takes 300 posts to do that. Otherwise its just a boredom thing.

I think that should suffice for starters.

Is it so hard for you to put into writing what goth means to you? It was a simple question that was only brought on by my curiosity of this site's large and diverse user base.

Eh, its just a music scene I guess. People who wear black and listen to Siouxsie can still have diverse tastes and personalities ^_^

[Eclipsing the Son]

Being goth means wearing black and knowing, without doubt, that you are goth.

Sense of humor is optional.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Minyaliel

Gothicus, shut up. He´s asked a question, if you´ve no plans to answer it in a civil manner, then please show yourself as the mature individual you possibly might be and show some manners.

Right. From now on I will act like the person you project I might possibly be and not the person I am.

For starters I didn't expect to see so many of our beloved g.net's users flocking to the aid of females simply because they're females. For some strange reason I thought the majority of you kindly folks would be far less shallow. However I see it happening enough that I am now aware that this site, as with all others, is not immune to internet white knights.

Secondly I honestly didn't expect to see so many cheerful individuals. I'm not complaining about people being happy, but I'm sure you can understand my dismay upon reading posts such as *hugs* and other over the top cutesy antics.

Nor did I expect to see such an abundance of non-native English speakers. Again, not a problem, just something that I did not personally expect to see so much of here.

I did expect to see more interesting and intriguing topics on a day-to-day basis. What I am finding is a ridiculous amount of silly forums games that are pages and pages deep, and who I doubt anyone actually reads all of.

I think that should suffice for starters.

Goth is a glorified fanclub focused upon a specific genre of post-punk music that reached its peak during the 1980's. Membership in this group does not require that one be interesting or smart.
People often misapprehend goth as a fellowship of dark-minded souls who are especially attuned to the true, grim nature of human existence. Membership in this group actually requires that one not be interesting or smart.
As Man in Room 5 said, many gnet contributors fall into neither category, but are just as likely to be interesting or smart as anyone.
Cumulatively, as most people are uninteresting and stupid, most goths are uninteresting and stupid, and most gnetters are uninteresting and stupid.

[SKULHEDFACE]

Thank you for your input GothicusMaximus. It was sweet of you to contribute to my thread after all.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by SKULHEDFACE

Thank you for your input Gothicus Maximus. It was sweet of you to contribute to my thread after all.

Minyaliel thought I might possibly have wanted to do so.

[SKULHEDFACE]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Minyaliel thought I might possibly have wanted to do so.

Then it is to her whom I owe my thanks.

[KontanKarite]

Goth is a musical genre. 'Nuff said.

All the other stuff other than the music itself is not a qualifier of what makes one a goth.

The last goth I was hanging out with was wearing blue jeans, a stripped dress shirt, had short brown hair, and a goatee. He was even all smiles and nice. And he's way more goth than most BECAUSE he has a real appreciation for goth rock and deathrock.

[Eclipsing the Son]

Goth went beyond being a musical genre ages ago.

By the way, KontanKarite, You just described me. Have we met?

[Man In Room 5]

Wow, Gothicus cites me in his argument. My credibility on Gnet is rising I guess.

Now, at the risk of blowing it and contradicting what he said, and what I myself implied, I give you this link to an old post of mine where I suggest goth is more than music. Altho I have to say that I never suggest goth is "a fellowship of dark-minded souls who are especially attuned to the true, grim nature of human existence". Gothicus is right when he says that attitude is bullshit. I do argue however that the attitude most goths have towards goth music often applies to gothic literature and movies too.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...9&postcount=11

SKULHEDFACE might enjoy that thread. It's similar to this one.

[Steppenwolf]

Originally Posted by Man In Room 5

souls who are especially attuned to the true, grim nature of human existence". Gothicus is right when he says that attitude is bullshit. I do argue however that the attitude most goths have towards goth music often applies to gothic literature and movies too.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...9&postcount=11

Beautiful rant , I agree with most of it .

[$haDe]

Originally Posted by Man In Room 5

Without going into an entire rant, I've always considered Gothic to be the dark underside of the romantic movement. It's interesting that the original gothic literature arose right along with the Romantic movement and later goth music arose right along with the so called New Romantic bands. I'm not sure about film, but I'll bet that the era of the really good gothic horror movies arose right about the same time that romances were also popular. Really I consider gothic a subdivision of romance. Both require drama and high emotional intensity and seem to focus more on relationships between people than outright action. (I know that now that I've said this people will point out a million exceptions to this rule...but I still think it holds true as a generalization.)

Everyone will argue that their own favorite era of goth was the best and that it's declined since then but I'd guess that popularization would be the one thing that lessened the value of it. I suppose you could argue that the goth scene lost value once it reached a point where you could buy the whole package in one shot without understanding the concepts behind it. Hot Topic has built their entire reputation on that fact but they're not the only ones. I remember being shocked when Best Buy started selling Bauhaus and I was still shocked to see Rasputina there years later. I was also shocked for the very short time that Best Buy actually carried the Cleopatra label. Certain authors also seem to have cashed in on goth and cheapened it by pandering to the gothic image until they were feeding us a pastiche of our own scene. I won't name any names. I'll just say it wasn't a very bright idea. But that same cheapening happened in the original era of gothic literature too as more authors cranked out "shilling shockers". The internet itself was probably a major factor too. Suddenly, any goth with a Geocities page could reach the world and there was a sea of wanna-bes dying to eat up whatever appeared cool, obscure and "underground" at the time.

Impressive.


Now, what can I say more about the topic?

I'm an idiot to reply it ?

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Eclipsing the Son

Goth went beyond being a musical genre ages ago.

By the way, KontanKarite, You just described me. Have we met?

No... no it didn't. If you're talking about "goth" fashion and shit, then sure, in brutal honesty, goth has become a pre-packaged product for arbitrary spooky kids to feel like they're special in some way.

Goth boots
Goth drawing
Goth shirts
Goth movies
Goth fetish wear
Goth Make up
Goth food
Goth anime

Mother. Fuck. That. Shit. Gag me.

[Man In Room 5]

Thanks Steppenwolf and $haDe.

I always feel like an opinionated pretentious asshole when I write long posts....but then I remember I am an opinionated pretentious asshole and if I ever forget it I'm sure someone here will remind me.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Goth is whatever the hell you make of it. Who says that the Hot Topic crowd is any less goth than the old-time Batcavers? Nobody with any authority to make that distinction, that's who. Peoples' manifestations of abstract concepts (and, yes, as it cannot be quantified "goth" is one of those) evolve and change over time, so who's to say what it really is?

For a group ostensibly dedicated to self-expression goths worry a lot about labels.