Rant Thread

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

I didn't say it was justifiable, simply that it's a natural instinct.

Then why bring it up if you're not saying it to prove anything? You're not justifying staring at tits, and you're making unfounded statements about human nature.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

Then why bring it up if you're not saying it to prove anything? You're not justifying staring at tits, and you're making unfounded statements about human nature.

Not really. I'm simply stating my opinion that I don't find it sexist when a man admires a woman's breasts. And, why do you feel that it's a necessity for me to be attempting to "prove" something? Since when can't one express their opinion without having an ulterior motive?

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Not really. I'm simply stating my opinion that I don't find it sexist when a man admires a woman's breasts. And, why do you feel that it's a necessity for me to be attempting to "prove" something? Since when can't one express their opinion without having an ulterior motive?

Usually one holds opinions for a reason, but you've provided no valid reason for which you hold yours.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Usually one holds opinions for a reason, but you've provided no valid reason for which you hold yours.

When it comes to opinions, the reasons need only be valid to the person to whom the opinion belongs. I voiced the reasons why I hold my opinion: we are humans, it's a natural instinct and, so long as it's not done expressly in an objectifying fashion, I don't think that a man enjoying the sight of a woman's breasts is sexist. If you disagree or don't understand, I'm afraid I can't express it any more succinctly, nor do I wish to sway anyone's opinion to match with mine.

[JCC]

I think that a woman has the right not to be ogled by some fat drooling pervert as she's going about her daily business.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

I think that a woman has the right not to be ogled by some fat drooling pervert as she's going about her daily business.

Did I say that she didn't?

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

When it comes to opinions, the reasons need only be valid to the person to whom the opinion belongs. I voiced the reasons why I hold my opinion: we are humans, it's a natural instinct and, so long as it's not done expressly in an objectifying fashion, I don't think that a man enjoying the sight of a woman's breasts is sexist. If you disagree or don't understand, I'm afraid I can't express it any more succinctly, nor do I wish to sway anyone's opinion to match with mine.

One has to recognize that human beings, while certainly animals, are extremely unique and extremely superior animals. Civilization is a testament to this. While we possess the base, primal nature common to other terrene creatures, we also demonstrate a higher sensibility, exist as emotional and intellectual beings to the same degree that we are physical ones, and for that reason we generally interact with and regard one another as such faceted beings. To stare at a stranger's tits is to say "because you're a woman and have boobs, it's okay for me to ignore your identity and reduce you to a spectacle', and, so, it's sexist.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

To stare at a stranger's tits is to say "because you're a woman and have boobs, it's okay for me to ignore your identity and reduce you to a spectacle', and, so, it's sexist.

While I agree with the majority of what you said, I feel it necessary to reiterate something I said, before, but in another way, so as to aid in clarification. One can enjoy the sight of something without staring or ogling at it. One can enjoy the sight of a woman's breasts without necessarily objectifying her by doing so. There's a difference between an appreciative glance every now and then...and staring openly and persistently. I'm saying that those who don't stare pervasively aren't necessarily being sexist.

[JCC]

Then your statement had no relevance to the thread, Duane WAS staring and openly admitted it.

Plus, I don't think there is a difference between staring and looking, taking a quick break and then looking again ad nauseum or cum.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by JCC

Then your statement had no relevance to the thread, Duane WAS staring and openly admitted it.

This thread encompasses many different subjects, some of which evolved from different discussions. That's the case with this particular subject.

Originally Posted by JCC

Plus, I don't think there is a difference between staring and looking, taking a quick break and then looking again ad nauseum or cum.

I seem to recall you saying something different a while ago. Let's see...

Lastly, there's a vast difference between something being in bad taste and something being immoral. Just because a man enjoys a woman's breasts doesn't mean he's immediately a sexist for looking at them from time to time.

Women's breasts are multi-purposed, from nature's point of view: to feed children and to attract potential mates. To look at them from an evolutionary stand-point, if men didn't choose women with larger breasts on a fairly regular basis, there would be far less women with large breasts, today. Additionally, there'd be no business for plastic surgeons in that arena, as women wouldn't feel the need to have larger breasts in order to attract mates.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

I seem to recall you saying something different a while ago. Let's see...

I didn't say that I glance over repeatedly. That's just staring with intervals. I may glance over at a woman and see that she has nice tits and acknowledge that, I didn't say anywhere that I would ogle but take breaths in between. Anyone can take my quotes out of context or distort them, it's easy.

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Lastly, there's a vast difference between something being in bad taste and something being immoral. Just because a man enjoys a woman's breasts doesn't mean he's immediately a sexist for looking at them from time to time.

We're not talking about a guy glancing over at a woman and thinking "She has nice boobs." and continuing to go about his business.

Duane was ogling.

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Women's breasts are multi-purposed, from nature's point of view: to feed children and to attract potential mates. To look at them from an evolutionary stand-point, if men didn't choose women with larger breasts on a fairly regular basis, there would be far less women with large breasts, today. Additionally, there'd be no business for plastic surgeons in that arena, as women wouldn't feel the need to have larger breasts in order to attract mates.

This extends to feeling tits as well then, doesn't it? That's the feeling I get from this.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by JCC

This extends to feeling tits as well then, doesn't it? That's the feeling I get from this.

Which is in bad taste, not immoral, which goes back to Wynneth's statement to which I agree.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Not really. I'm simply stating my opinion that I don't find it sexist when a man admires a woman's breasts. And, why do you feel that it's a necessity for me to be attempting to "prove" something? Since when can't one express their opinion without having an ulterior motive?

There is a big difference between admiring the beauty of the human physique and being a jerkoff.

We aren't talking about men admiring the beauty of the human physique, we're talking about sexual harassment.

NO ONE is saying it's wrong to glance at a woman's breasts and think to him or herself, "wow, that's just lovely right there."

We're saying it's wrong to stare openly for a prolonged period of time, and not focus on the woman the breasts are attached to.


So stop fucking saying that you don't have a problem with men admiring women BECAUSE NO ONE SAID THAT WAS BAD.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Well, stop fucking saying that Duane was staring at her for a period of time long enough to deserve the denomination of SEXUAL HARASSMENT!

Seriously, Jesus Fucking Christ, Duane said he was staring at her and that he might have stared at her breasts for a moment.
Are you even talking about him anymore or are you just trying to prove a moot point against an argument that was never started?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Well, stop fucking saying that Duane was staring at her for a period of time long enough to deserve the denomination of SEXUAL HARASSMENT!

Seriously, Jesus Fucking Christ, Duane said he was staring at her and that he might have stared at her breasts for a moment.
Are you even talking about him anymore or are you just trying to prove a moot point against an argument that was never started?

I'm enjoying myself.

And no, it's not really about Duane, it's about the attitude that "men just can't help themselves."

[Godslayer Jillian]

To which you believe we are all guilty of sexual harassment for merely looking?
Or it's not just for looking?
But wasn't Wynneth speaking about harmlessly looking rather than mentally jacking off?
So where do you get your accusations?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

To which you believe we are all guilty of sexual harassment for merely looking?
Or it's not just for looking?
But wasn't Wynneth speaking about harmlessly looking rather than mentally jacking off?
So where do you get your accusations?

She may have been talking about that, but I don't understand why, because no one said they had a problem with merely looking.

[Tam Li Hua]

Jeez Louise! This is still going on?! I thought this would have died by now! >_<

Look, it's annoying for Westerners when folks stare at them, for any reason. I can see Ophie's point about how a guy drooling over a girl's boobs could be construed as sexist. However, if a girl has a low neckline, a heterosexual male is going to notice! Sure, he shouldn't stand there drooling on her shirt, but damn it, if she doesn't want to be that noticed, then she shouldn't wear shirts or dresses that are low-cut/tight.

/rant.

[gothicusmaximus]

Dudes, I want so badly to participate in this argument, but I'm afraid to do so, because, the longer it rages on, the more I suspect that none of us have any idea what the fuck we're fighting about.

[Godslayer Jillian]

We can recap.
Duane saw a girl. He admits he might have looked at her breasts. The girl slapped him.

Is it sexist?
Is it sexual harassment?
Is it immoral?
Is it acceptable?
Is it tolerable?
Was it overreacting?

We report, you decide!

[Cicero]

I really don't give two shits about all the bickering in the last few pages of this thread, but figured this may be relevant.

[Tam Li Hua]

Here are the answers, as I see them at 1:45 in the AM:

Is it sexist?

That's a matter of opinion. I don't believe it was purposefully sexist, if it was at all. If something can be construed as unintentionally sexist, then perhaps.

Is it sexual harassment?

No. It's just really really annoying. Now, if the guy allows his eyes to noticeably linger, and knows that the girl notices that they linger, then that would be sexual harassment.

Is it immoral?

Depends on one's morals.

Is it acceptable?

Not in modern, western society, apparently.

Is it tolerable?

Yes. Then again, anything can be tolerable if repeated often enough.

Was it overreacting?

Most definitely. A sharp word or look [or both] would have done the job just fine; this girl acted a little ridiculous.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Which is in bad taste, not immoral, which goes back to Wynneth's statement to which I agree.

If your argument is on the premise that statutory **** is just a little cheeky, then I think I'm going to sit this one out.

[LiUsAiDh]

I have a cold.

I have to paint fish all this term, and possibly next term too.

Awww.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

We can recap.
Duane saw a girl. He admits he might have looked at her breasts. The girl slapped him.

Is it sexist?
Is it sexual harassment?
Is it immoral?
Is it acceptable?
Is it tolerable?
Was it overreacting?

We report, you decide!

Stop saying that.
He flat out said he was staring at her tits, and he used the word "pervy."

The problem, then, isn't so much as the action, but the fact that he knew at the time that it was probably the wrong thing to do, but he did it anyway.


Once more, most of us AREN'T talking about Duane in particular, we're talking about how some women seem to think it's ok for men to stare at them, made lewd comments, give them a slap on the ass when they walk by, etc.