Kony 2012

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Symbol

I'm not arguing that there's a tangible difference between just giving money to a country and providing actual aid. However, there have been over 3,500 NGOs in Uganda since this whole ordeal. For us to truly say that there wasn't actual aid provided, we must believe that:

a.) The majority of these NGOs were ineffective in producing real change for reasons other than having a difficult situation to deal with.
b.) The majority of these NGOs did not have specific plans on how they were going to assist Uganda.
c.) The majority of these NGOs were ill funded.

You don’t seem to understand the situation in Uganda very well, or perhaps it is just NGOs in general that you don’t get, so I’ll throw out some basic info for you. Not all NGOs are good, in fact in Uganda during the late 90s one NGO is thought is thought to be directly responsible for the deaths of over 700 of its supporters. There is little to no oversight for NGOs in Uganda and many have been accused of corruption and misuse of funds, not to mention the fact that many have strong political motives and secure most of their funding from the government, which we have already established is corrupt so we can guess that these relationships between the NGOs and the government may not be in the best interest of the Ugandan people. Also specifically on your third point: there is a plethora of evidence to show that a handful of NGOs are attracting the vast majority of funding, while most NGOs are in fact rather small and ill funded

Originally Posted by Symbol

I don't buy these premises. As far as I can tell, there were well funded organizations who had boots on the ground attempting to make real change in Uganada, and it didn't meet the necessary change.

Good for you for not doing even the most cursory research before coming to your conclusion.

Originally Posted by Symbol

Either will work

If we are talking about the government then I would be happy with simply any meaningful pledge that speaks to long term involvement. As I said earlier sending even a small number of civil engineers to plan and supervise projects would be amazing.

Originally Posted by Symbol

what I'm trying to find out is that if the criticism of "privileged people" is that they didn't contribute enough, then what should they have contributed?

First off it would have been nice for people to have contributed when the situation was developing, but people didn’t know and worse yet didn’t care to know. Failing that maybe people could actually look into the situation before they do some feel good activism that changes nothing. The people who are actively getting involved are not the ones being criticized, the people who have no idea what is really going on and who think that plastering posters is enough to matter are the ones that we are talking about.

Originally Posted by Symbol

1. Privileged people didn't contribute enough support to Uganda as they should have.

No, privileged people don’t contribute in a meaningful enough way to make a difference mainly because they don’t understand the true nature of the situation and they don’t care to because they think they have done their part by plastering poster all over a city or whatever.

My friend Jenna, the person I talked about in my first post in this thread started off as a pretty typical privileged “activist”. She would make posters, wear the bracelet of whatever cause she was currently supporting, slap bumper stickers on her car, and show up at the occasional rally. It wasn’t until she went to Uganda to fulfill a requirement for her degree that she even began to understand the situation. She had never seen what it is like to be one the ground and providing direct help before and she never would have imagined how difficult it was to get even the most basic goods, and she was in a fairly central city not some remote village. She finally realized the difference between giving a large one time amount and making a pledge to regularly donate smaller amounts.

Originally Posted by Symbol

2. We know they didn't contribute enough support because a qualitative difference in Uganada didn't happen until just recently.

Again the issue isn’t that privileged individuals don’t donate enough it is that they do no donate in a meaningful way, their involvement tends to be pretty damn temporary, they make their contribution and then move on thinking that they have done their part. They assume that hey they gave something surely that makes a difference, they don’t bother finding out what is actually needed. Besides a qualitative difference in Uganda has been apparent for the better part of a decade now, thanks to grassroots efforts within the country, progress has been slow but it has been there.

Originally Posted by Symbol

3. Therefore it is valid to criticise privileged people for their lack of support.

Once again I don’t think you are getting what our issue is. These people didn’t care when the situation was at its worst and they don’t care to really look into the situation. They aren’t criticized for their lack of support so much as the fact that they think what they are doing is comparable to true activism. Any support and contributions to a worthy cause are greatly appreciated but that doesn’t mean that the bumper sticker on your car or the posters you put up are going to change the world

Originally Posted by Symbol

I think that we can agree that it's not reasonable to expect other countries to provide support indefinitely.

I agree but that doesn’t mean that pledging long term involvement so that projects which will take years can be accomplished without fear that contributions will dry up when the project is only half completed.

[Symbol]

Hey Solumina,

You're starting to insult instead of debate, and I've got no interest in getting in to a flame war (too much stress for too little reward). I suspect that even if I brought up valid points, it wouldn't be acknowledged, so I don't see the benefit in continuing.

Good debate, but I'm going to withdraw from this site. Although this isn't my kind of place, I'm glad to have spoken with you.

Cheers, and hope you start feeling better. =)

[Saya]

You know you're not the Gnet type when its Solumina who scares you away.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Symbol

Hey Solumina,

You're starting to insult instead of debate, and I've got no interest in getting in to a flame war (too much stress for too little reward). I suspect that even if I brought up valid points, it wouldn't be acknowledged, so I don't see the benefit in continuing.

You're right, I did start getting a bit snarky there, I apologize but at the same time what frustrated me about your post is what epitomizes my frustration with the majority of people who get "involved" with a cause, they don't take the time to delve into the situation and they think that they are more knowledgeable about a topic than they are, which frequently makes them hostile to people who have a better grasp on the subject.

Also on a less serious but still relevant note I have been experimenting with Guinness cupcakes and Baileys frosting pretty much all afternoon and well that involved drinking a fair amount of both. Not that I was drunk but I my tongue (err well I guess fingers) gets a little loose fairly quickly (my love for dancing also tends to come out quite readily but that has nothing to do with this thread).

Originally Posted by Symbol

I suspect that even if I brought up valid points, it wouldn't be acknowledged, so I don't see the benefit in continuing.

I, personally, would be very interested in any points that you wish to discus. As I have previously said I have limited knowledge of the current situation in Uganda so I am sure that there are things going on that I'm not aware of

Originally Posted by Symbol

Good debate, but I'm going to withdraw from this site. Although this isn't my kind of place, I'm glad to have spoken with you.

Okay, well, bye bye!

Originally Posted by Symbol

Cheers, and hope you start feeling better. =)

Guinness cupcakes make everything better

Originally Posted by Saya

You know you're not the Gnet type when its Solumina who scares you away.

I know, right? I don't think I've ever run someone off before. I have to say it is exciting but I kind of feel bad.

[CuckooTuli]

That... was like sitting through series 1 of Buffy, only for the finale to have her and the Master agree, "You say potato, I say all that is innocent shall die screaming", with smily shrugs. Then settling their differences with an amicable handshake and returning to their respective Hellbound and non-Hellbound corners bearing no ill will.

I don't like it. It feels like a trap, somehow.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Symbol

Hey Solumina,

You're starting to insult instead of debate, and I've got no interest in getting in to a flame war (too much stress for too little reward).

G.net is a flame war. When people lose arguments, they start insulting you.


Give money to Amnesty International.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...uganda/3600150

This link may help you find more information about the situation in Uganda.

Or google her name Florence Apuri. She's a Ugandan activist.

[Alan]

Yeah, Solumina was clearly losing the argument and therefore she started insulting like saying that the other person had done no research.
That bitch!

[AshleyO]

Holy shit guys; have you seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4MnpzG5Sqc

What the actual fuck?

[Versus]

Don't make me spend 30 minutes to figure out what shit you're talking about.

[Fruitbat]

Oh wow, look at that... Alan's in the middle of a AshleyO and Versus sandwhich... I'd supply the relish, if I ever thought I'd get the chance to see that.

And yes SOL is a very naughty girl who needs spanking or added to the above sandwich...

But where will we find bread that big???


Interesting how if you change the way the story is told, then people will pay attention to the message. Haven't the traditional news media been on about the injustices in Africa now for about, I don't know 20-30 years?

[robocopp]

fantastico !

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

Oh wow, look at that... Alan's in the middle of a AshleyO and Versus sandwhich... I'd supply the relish, if I ever thought I'd get the chance to see that.

They're out of my league. Alan especially. He's just dreamy.

[Saya]

Interesting.

http://boingboing.net/2012/03/12/kon...-children.html

I really hope this isn't a launching pad for a reoccurance of what happened in Haiti.

http://www.alternet.org/visions/1544...evangelizing__

Uh oh, dude seems like a bit of a Evangelical. Well, how extreme is Liberty U?

It was founded as Lynchburg Baptist College in 1971 by Jerry Falwell, who was also the Senior Pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church.

OH SHIT.

[Alan]

Oh shit, no wonder they went to my Christian high school back in 2007.

[Sinjob]

Originally Posted by Saya

You know you're not the Gnet type when its Solumina who scares you away.

Double on this.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Versus

They're out of my league. Alan especially. He's just dreamy.

LMAO.

I actually was thinking about all three of you in hotdog costumes, (the weiner bit) and you could all just try and see who was the last one standing) in some weird glatitorial competition.

Oh forget it, it made sense in my brain at the time. Shit I hate it when I'm in the middle of a creative mode, and everything is possible including fighting hotdogs.


More atrocities that we like to sweep under the rug:

See the guy charged with war crimes in the Congo was found guilty:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/m...?newsfeed=true (oh and Ange Jolie was there to hear the outcome.)

George clooney was using his star power to talk about the problems in Sudan:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...rES_story.html

Interesting how these stories are now being told: {hollywood star} talks about {issue that no one seems to give a shit about} because we are all watching some dumbass reality tv show or TMZ.

Then there is the 30 years later the Khmer Rouge leaders are now just being brought to justice. "but I was just doing as I was told." And someone said that he was a good family man - WTF!?

[Saya]

A co-founder of Invisible Children, the group behind the “KONY 2012” video on alleged atrocities by an African warlord, has been arrested for being drunk in public and masturbating, according to the San Diego Police Department.
Jason Russell, was taken into custody after he was found masturbating in public, vandalizing cars and possibly under the influence of something, said Lt. Andra Brown, NBCSanDiego.com reported.

Russell is one of the the founders responsible for the "KONY 2012" video that went viral last week. He is described on the organization's website as a co-founder and "our grand storyteller and dreamer." Russell is also described as a Christian and father to two children who wants to have nine more children with his wife he calls his "best friend for over 23 years."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ony-2012-video

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Saya

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...ony-2012-video

That could happen to anyone.

[Saya]

I know what when I'm stressed, I like to run naked through town and masturbate on cars. Its what Jesus would do.

[Versus]

You're so easy to troll. <3

[robocopp]

Honeymoon returned and my husband feels like a teenager again with cialis 40mg pills and really helps
and hair loss buy dutasteride really helps.