One nation under God?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Jefferson was clearly an atheist.

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Mon Coeur Noir

REALLY? Where do you go? What state? I thought they got rid of that.

Yep they still have it going here in Wisconsin, and the teachers make everyone at least stand.

[CptSternn]

They still do it in Virginia as well.

[Drake Dun]

They were doing it in my high school in California when I went there, although that was more than a decade ago now. One of my best friends made an issue out of it and got into all kinds of trouble.

Drake

[Mon Coeur Noir]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

The constitution does not render unconstitutional other parts of the constitution. Learn about your topic before forming an opinion on it.

Drake

What the hell are you talking about? The pledge isn't a part of the constitution. That's a fact, not an opinion.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written for the popular kid's magazine Youth's Companion by Christian Socialist author and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy on September 7, 1892. The owners of Youth's Companion were selling flags to schools, and approached Bellamy to write the Pledge for their advertising campaign. It was marketed as a way to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus arriving in the Americas and was first published on the following day.

[Luthian]

Originally Posted by Mon Coeur Noir

No, because the pledge isn't in the constitution. If ya don't wanna say it, you don't gotta. They don't say it in the schools anymore, so the only places left are places like Ball parks and things like that. People have the right to say, or not the pledge in public just as much as they have the right to pray or scream "Danzig is God." No one is making anyone say anything. It's like a poem, or the lyrics to a song. It's not a law, just some thing that some people say if they feel like it. That's the power of freedom.

We had to say the pledge in school. I sat out of it several times, and was sent to the principle because of it. They were going to make me serve Saturday detention, until I informed them that this action was illegal (note: this was a public school). But, this was the same school that fired one of the teachers because he told me (in front of a class full of Islamic and jewish students) that I was going to burn in hell because I didn't accept Jesus as my personal savior. HA!

The faculty all attended the same church - save a handful.

Texas; it's like a whole 'nother backwards.

[Luthian]

Note: The laws for my state were changed after Sept. 11... after I had already left school.

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" - Ben Franklin

[Renatus]

Originally Posted by Luthian

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" - Ben Franklin

Now that is a good quote for thsi day and age.

[Godslayer Jillian]

That phrase is almost becoming tedious to hear for me, but yet it seems most people haven't even heard it by their decisions.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Linen

Oh, and actually Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and John Adams, were all *said to be* Deists, not Christian.

Thank you, Linen! I can't believe this thread went a whole page before anyone challenged the idea that the founding fathers were christian.

At my high school on Long Island we weren't mandated to recite the pledge. Although it was read over the loud speaker every morning, we were always free to choose whether we participated. To me personally, the whole notion of a pledge, with or without the mention of god, always seemed ridiculous, like something the Klingons would do on Star Trek.

[Luthian]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Thank you, Linen! I can't believe this thread went a whole page before anyone challenged the idea that the founding fathers were christian.

At my high school on Long Island we weren't mandated to recite the pledge. Although it was read over the loud speaker every morning, we were always free to choose whether we participated. To me personally, the whole notion of a pledge, with or without the mention of god, always seemed ridiculous, like something the Klingons would do on Star Trek.

The Klingon pledge would be way more interesting, violent, and phlemy.

[clockworkcoffin]

drake you are a fucking genius. seriously i am incredibly impressed. you should be teaching classes.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by Xombie

Do you think the portion of the American pledge "one nation under God" is unconstitutional?

Originally Posted by Mon Coeur Noir

No, because the pledge isn't in the constitution... It's not a law, just some thing that some people say if they feel like it.

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

The constitution does not render unconstitutional other parts of the constitution.

Originally Posted by Mon Coeur Noir

What the hell are you talking about? The pledge isn't a part of the constitution. That's a fact, not an opinion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_...22under_God.22

Drake

[Mon Coeur Noir]

Whatever, man. I'm done with arguing if a marketing ploy is constitutional or not.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Luthian

The Klingon pledge would be way more interesting, violent, and phlemy.

"I pledge my bat'leth to the flag of Sto'vo'kor. And to the warrior for which we fight, one nation under Kahless with blood wine and gagh for all."

Hmm, I could learn to like that.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by clockworkcoffin

drake you are a fucking genius. seriously i am incredibly impressed. you should be teaching classes.

I am. I teach English classes for Japanese people.

Drake

[Lapin]

Do you know why all that "under god" rubbish was added in the fifties? To seperate America from the "godless" Communists. That's it.

In my own opinion, the thing is ridiculous and creeps me out. I refused to say it throughout school, angering some teachers, and making others laugh.

The thing is, I don't think "Congress shall make no law[...]" could be any clearer, and it annoys me to no end when I hear people spouting off about how the country was founded to be a great Christian country. I find that line in the Pledge disrespectful, both to the Founding Fathers and to modern day Americans.

[Drake Dun]

We need legislative acts like that to protect all our precious bodily fluids.

Drake

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by Xombie

Actually, in my school we do still say the pledge at the start of each day. We aren't forced to say it, but the teacher stares you down if you don't. =P

It's the same at my school. I had one teacher tell my boyfriend if he didn't stand to recite the pledge then he was un-American.

But I think that, that line in the pledge should be removed. Because the beauty of America is that we have the right to believe in anything we want. And not all of us believe in God.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

It's the same at my school. I had one teacher tell my boyfriend if he didn't stand to recite the pledge then he was un-American.

Oh, the irony! "Hey, let's add 'under God' to seperate us from those horrible Communists, and then force all our children to repeat it every day in something that is reminiscent to what our propaganda forces inform everyone is a Communist brainwashing method! What fun, wheee!"

[clockworkcoffin]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

I am. I teach English classes for Japanese people.

Drake

dude i am so jealous of your job! that is way cool.

[CptSternn]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that the soldiers in Iraq say a daily prayer during their morning service, which, thanks to a new addition to the Bible they carry, has this prayer written out - which includes a new line at the end - 'God bless George W. Bush', which is how they end their prayers.

[BLEED REBELION!!!]

WHAT!!!!!! Do you have alink to the prayer??? I have got to see this!

In grade school they made us say the pledge if you sat down they would order you to stand and say it. I didnt know I had a choice. In my High school we dont say the pledge and no one really cares. We share a building with a elementry school and they ay he pledge every day, it makes me a bit sick really. I dont think children should be told to say any pledge ever, To me its a big deal to pledge to something. Being in 5th grade you usually dont know much about the "flag" etc.

[Slap Your Love]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the fact that the soldiers in Iraq say a daily prayer during their morning service, which, thanks to a new addition to the Bible they carry, has this prayer written out - which includes a new line at the end - 'God bless George W. Bush', which is how they end their prayers.

Roflmao! Good o' Bush. xD

[korinna5555]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

They still do it in Virginia as well.

Yes.. yes they do.
I was told be a teacher that if I did not stand AND recite the pledge, she would take reprocussional administrative action against me.
I remained sitting, and didn't say a word.
She went to the principal (who I happen to be on very friendly terms with) who told me teacher to back the hell off (well, not literally)..
I now carry around the page in our *huge* student handbook that says we are allowed to sit during the pledge, and not be required to recite it.
I was threatened a lot in elementary school, and my right to refuse was never defended. After middle school though..

I refuse to pledge my allegiance to any country or government, as I do not support either.