Porn and girlfriends.

[MrMaelstrom]

Eheheh: I lived in ol'Melbourne too, and was 17 at the time I lived in the Terra Australis Incognita.

Lovely poem, m'am.

[mortalitas incomitatus]

me? be suggestive? i'm shocked you would think such a thing!

[edible_eye]

Originally Posted by ShadowDweller

Well, laddies, porn is just a phase men go through, get used to it. But don't worry if you fuck them enough they will have no need for porn. =) If your man is 30 and still watching porn, you have a porblem.

you can't be serious.

actually, i guess you are and that's not only sad - it's downright ignorant.

where do you get your information? how did you come to this conclusion? what makes you think this argument holds any validity whatsoever?

[MrMaelstrom]

You're the ignorant here, E_E.

I'm willing to bet you don't even know what a "porblem" is.

[edible_eye]

god dammit! i hate it when you 'out' me.

you're right, ok? i don't know what a "porblem" is.

FUCK!

[mortalitas incomitatus]

what about going to strip clubs whilst in a relationship?
i ask only cos whilst my friend and i were receiving lapdances this morning her girlfriend (though they are on a 'break' atm) decided to stalk us all night then crack to shits bout the lap dance.
hmmmmmmmm..........

[MrMaelstrom]

Did they have terms for their "break"? Or for the relationship altogether?

[edible_eye]

i think that the greater question comes down to - how are parameters defined within a relationship?

all the peripheral stuff is out there, no matter what. people need to define what is and is not acceptable within their own relationship. if they don't, then a fight or attack should not be the first round of engagaement when a previously unrealized digression has been perpetrated.

[TheKorovaMilkbar]

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

Pavlovian reflexes kicking in, Santa?

*falls out of chair laughing*

[mortalitas incomitatus]

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

Did they have terms for their "break"? Or for the relationship altogether?

well my friends gf was ment to be staying home because adelaide is very small and there is only three or four places that the goths/punks/metal-heads can go and relax with good music so the arrangement was lisa was comming out for my b'day and kate was staying home with her house mates. but then kate starts following lisa around and cracked the shits bout the strip club.
i dunno, personally i have no probs with my man or girl going to strip clubs for these reasons.
*i know quite a few strippers and its a job they are not out to steal your partner. it is not a big conspiracy.
*i know most of the time my partner is going for the same reason i do.....a bit of a perve and a a good time with mates.
*i know my partner will be in my bed with me later that night all ready for a bit of lovin'
*i know more often than not i'll be sitting right next to my partner enjoing the show.

[MrMaelstrom]

While her stalking is condonable, I'm sure it feels to her as perfectly justifiable when it turns out in her mind that there was transgression.

I mean, she was supposed to stay home for the sake of you and your friend being able to enjoy alone the few places that cater to our crowd, and then...

The point is not the strippers' attitude, and whether or not they would try to seduce your friend or not.
The point is your friend's attitude.
You know the reasons why your partner goes to a strip club. The heart of the matter is why your friend goes to a strip club. And that's what wasn't clear to your friend's gf, or that's what constitues a transgression in her mind.

As for trust, she broke trust by stalking, and your friend broke her trust as well.
I mean, she just simply didn't tell her gf that she was going to go to a stripp club.
So unless it was something just totally improvised and unplanned for, I can argue that she knew she was transgressing, whether or not it was something she had discussed previously with her gf.

Even if your friend has the same attitude as you and your partner, it makes no difference.
Your attitude and you're partners only happen to be right because you both know and accept. That's what a conseting adult is. If your friend wanted to do something during her relationship, her gf should consent to it (which obviously takes knowing about it in the 1st place).

I love playing Devil's Advocate.

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by MrMaelstrom

You're the ignorant here, E_E.

I'm willing to bet you don't even know what a "porblem" is.

A porblem is something an illiterate moron has!



Now explain to me, dear Mael, just what a 'consetting adult' is, hhhmmmmmm?

[MrMaelstrom]

It's all got to do with the setting, the scenery the action takes place in.

I could explain further, of course, but it gets really technical, and I'm sure you wouldn't understand much of it....







*runs

[WolfMoon]

*throws Docs*


WHOOOOOOSHHHHH

You're lucky short men don't have anything to encumber their speed!!!

[MrMaelstrom]

Nope. I don't do cucumbers either.

[Ben Lahnger]

funny stuff E_E, Mael and Wolfie,

My quick thoughts on the rambling course of this thread:

Saying you have a problem if your partner is over 30 and still likes porn is like saying you have a problem

if your partner is over 30 and still likes ice cream or chocolate.

And we all know ice cream or chocolate can be lovely, and is not a problem unless you have too much.

Or don't share. Or brag about how much bigger your candy bar is than someone elses. :-D

People who have issues with porn (when not consumed in a disfunctional manner) have a problem for

one of two reasons.

1) Jealousy - I agree with Santerea:

Originally Posted by Santarea

Porn is not cheating.

Sticking your dick in someone else without your loved one's permission is cheating.

Cheating is an interaction and connection- I can arguably see Cyber and phone sex as cheating in that

parameter. It violates the boundaries of a relationship a sthere is another person actively involved. In

porn, those people don't interact with you. That's where I draw the line.

And frankly? Most women I know don't have a problem with the porn, they have security or self esteem

issues. I find that the girls who are relaxed and comfortable with themselves can enjoy porn or at least

not see it as cheating; whereas insecure gals get pissy if you hug yo' momma.

AMEN!

2) Out of touch with their own sexuality. And this means that the porn concern is only going to be one

part of many challenges this person is going to have developing a happy, healthy relatationship.

I agree with the general bad quality of commercial porn these days ... oversized silicone boobies and

formula sex (oral, mish, anal, facial, repeat) and bad acting ... yeah, I don't get excited about much of that

anymore. And even worse, the amatuer porn has all started imitating the pro's. So finding that rare video

where the people seem to be genuinely turned on by each other and the sex doesn't seem to be all about

using the woman like a piece of meat ... well, it IS getting harder and harder.

I think there should be a mature content warning somewhere on the main entryway. I'd also like to

recognize that some people are very mature at 15, and others are incredible child-like at 30. I do not think

there should have to be a post by post warning, although guidelines about what should and shouldn't be

posted already exist.

All of my partners enjoy watching porn with me. They know I watch porn and read erotica to get off when

I'm not around them. And they frequently borrow porn from me to use at home when they are alone. But

I've made it a point to only seek out enlightened women like that at this point in my life.

Did I say QUICK? Well, this thread has truly meandered, but I wanted to cover it all in one thread.

Finally, Ezra, you said "I think the feminist have a valid point to make
when they say porn objectifes women reduces them to three holes and
a pair of tits." ... THREE? Really? ... hmmm ... let me count ... honey, come here!

Ha ha ha!

[Sanctus Dei]

Now I know this isn't directly porn related, but it is an argument my love and I mull over often.

Strip clubs... I've mentioned the idea of working in one, he quickly snaps a "Hell No." In my direction.
My argument is, he agrees there is nothing wrong with a strip club... going to a strip club... working in a strip club etc...
BUT I'm not allowed to work in one. I allow him to "ogle" the goodies a strip club provides... so why can't I let others "ogle" mine? (and for a hell of a lot of cash I might add?!) I find his reasoning slightly possessive and hypocritical... so am I entirely wrong?

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Sanctus Dei

Now I know this isn't directly porn related, but it is an argument my love and I mull over often.

Strip clubs... I've mentioned the idea of working in one, he quickly snaps a "Hell No." In my direction.
My argument is, he agrees there is nothing wrong with a strip club... going to a strip club... working in a strip club etc...
BUT I'm not allowed to work in one. I allow him to "ogle" the goodies a strip club provides... so why can't I let others "ogle" mine? (and for a hell of a lot of cash I might add?!) I find his reasoning slightly possessive and hypocritical... so am I entirely wrong?

Sanctus, goth love you! If you have a body that makes the boys want to pay, then I say "Shake what your mamma gave ya!"

That's what you'd be free to do if you were my lady. But then I would be incredibly turned on by watching you dance and heat up all those men, knowing you were going to go home and burn all that energy on me! So, no, I don't believe you are wrong.

You could say he is being hypocritical, but I'll just say at best he's conflicted. He may be wrong, but that doesn't mean it's not important to him. I wish I could shine the ray of rational enlightenment on him and clear this up for you. But I suspect that as long as he feels some manner of insecurity concerning you and displaying your body, the more important need of maintaining what is otherwise a fairy positive relationship will require you to go along with his views on this one issue.

If you notice similar hypocracy or possesiveness in other aspects of your life together, then you may have a bigger problem to deal with. But I hope that is not the case and you can accept the comprimise of not pushing him on this one issue.

But, DAMN, I would love to see you swing those hips around a pole! Heh heh heh!

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Sanctus Dei

Now I know this isn't directly porn related, but it is an argument my love and I mull over often.

Strip clubs... I've mentioned the idea of working in one, he quickly snaps a "Hell No." In my direction.

My argument is, he agrees there is nothing wrong with a strip club... going to a strip club... working in a strip club etc...

BUT I'm not allowed to work in one. I allow him to "ogle" the goodies a strip club provides... so why can't I let others "ogle" mine? (and for a hell of a lot of cash I might add?!)

I find his reasoning slightly possessive and hypocritical...

so am I entirely wrong?

No, neither of you are 'wrong'.

Yes, it is a Double Standard on his part.

At the same time, try and put yourself in his more Testosterone filled shoes.

In my experience most Men look at Women two ways.

1. Women they'd like to Fuck
2. Women they'd like to Date or Marry

Which category do you think strippers fall into?

With that being said, you are the Woman he has chosen to have as a Partner/Mate.

I would also venture to say that He has a fairly clear idea about how "other" men perceive women, and believes that most men make these same kinds of categorical divisions upon seeing a new woman.

When he looks at Strippers, he sees a Pair of Tits and a Hot Ass.
When other Men look at Strippers they think the same kinds of things.
Strippers aren't there for any other reason besides sexual tittilation of their Patrons.

It's pretty safe to assume that when he thinks of you dancing in a club, he is thinking of all of the other Men who are thinking " Damn I would love to fuck Her!! "

Thus placing you in Category #1

But you're HIS Category #2 Woman

Follow me?

Looking at Strippers with you, and Seeing/Allowing YOU to be one of 'those girls' is two totally different concepts, from two totally different emotional aspects, for him.

There is also the plain ol' male protective/possesiveness.

He doesn't want HIS Woman being leered at, pawed at and drooled over like some piece of meat by a bunch of Horny guys. He imagines the ways he has seen other Men behave over naked or nearly naked women. Then he imagines YOU being 'that woman'.

All this adds up to the resounding; 'HELL NO!' you receive when you broach the subject with him.

Sure it's natural that you would feel he is being a Possesive and Hypocritical Neanderthal.

Maybe the above perspective can help you understand where he is coming from a bit better.

Now of course this is a FEMALE offering hypothetical insight on the MALE mind, I would love to hear what one of the Guys here has to say about my take on the Male Psyche.

Please let me know if I am offbase at all on my Hypothesis.

I wanted to add a personal thought about the whole situation.

I have considered it myself more than once.

I turned down a very lucrative offer back in the day, from a Man who was a friend of mine that owned one of the largest 'Titty Bars' in Houston. I have had heaps of Dancer friends over the years, and I KNOW the money is good. Real Fucking Good.

That being said, one of the things that always stopped me was this;

I never wanted to become completely desensitized to my Intimacy and Sexuality. I didn't want to have to learn to divide myself in the way that you must in order to be a successful dancer. I didn't want to lose the Majick and Mystery associated with being Naked and Close to someone I loved and cared about.

I haven't ever known a SINGLE dancer that could get on stage sober. They all had to be drunk or fucked up out of their minds on Coke or Meth.

There is a reason for that.

After awhile they all said it began to eat away at their Sexual Identity. They said it began to erode who they thought they were as a Woman, and what made them a Sensual and Erotic Being.

It is for those reasons I chose not to do it. Believe me there were times I REALLY needed the Money, I just couldn't sacrifice that part of me for a fat wad of Cash.

Maybe there are women out there for whom it is a positive and healthy experience for, I just never met any.

Either way, you know what is right for you.

And uhh I know I'd spend BIG Money to see your Luscious Form in a pair of Black Vinyl Bondage Boots and nothing else..

*Hee*

If that helps..

[JuliaGaltic]

Originally Posted by Sanctus Dei

Now I know this isn't directly porn related, but it is an argument my love and I mull over often.

Strip clubs... I've mentioned the idea of working in one, he quickly snaps a "Hell No." In my direction.
My argument is, he agrees there is nothing wrong with a strip club... going to a strip club... working in a strip club etc...
BUT I'm not allowed to work in one. I allow him to "ogle" the goodies a strip club provides... so why can't I let others "ogle" mine? (and for a hell of a lot of cash I might add?!) I find his reasoning slightly possessive and hypocritical... so am I entirely wrong?

I think that if it's something that is truly important to you, you should put your foot down. If it's not that important to you maybe you can strike a compromise. For example, if you're interested in that career choice simply because of the money, then maybe you can work at a strip club as a waitress. You won't make as much money as the dancers, but you will still get to wear skimpy outfits and make loads in tips. This way you still get to rake in the dough and at the same time not be naked in front of other men and make your bf angry.
I can understand where your bf is coming from. I wouldn't want my bf dancing for a bunch of horny women, but that's just me. I'm slightly jealous and possesive but thank goth he likes that about me..

[WolfMoon]

Originally Posted by Sanctus Dei

Now I know this isn't directly porn related, but it is an argument my love and I mull over often.

Strip clubs... I've mentioned the idea of working in one, he quickly snaps a "Hell No." In my direction.
My argument is, he agrees there is nothing wrong with a strip club... going to a strip club... working in a strip club etc...
BUT I'm not allowed to work in one. I allow him to "ogle" the goodies a strip club provides... so why can't I let others "ogle" mine? (and for a hell of a lot of cash I might add?!) I find his reasoning slightly possessive and hypocritical... so am I entirely wrong?

Men are just hypocritical when it comes to someone else ogling 'their' women. It's a complete double standard that I've talked to my husband about before. He won't let me work in a strip club or even at Hooters (think of the fucking tips!!) , because other guys would be looking at me. Meh, guys are gonna look whether you work there or not. They probably see almost as much of you as they would at the beach anyway, right?

I don't see what the big fucking deal is! I look damn good for having two kids, hell I look better than alot of women who haven't had kids. Sometimes I just wanna show off the body that I work so hard on. I want to flaunt it while I've got it, cuz one day I'm gonna be old.

Anyway, I don't think you're wrong in the least. Some men just get possessive over their property.

[Ben Lahnger]

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

In my experience most Men look at Women two ways.

1. Women they'd like to Fuck
2. Women they'd like to Date or Marry

When he looks at Strippers, he sees a Pair of Tits and a Hot Ass.
When other Men look at Strippers they think the same kinds of things.
Strippers aren't there for any other reason besides sexual tittilation of their Patrons.

It's pretty safe to assume that when he thinks of you dancing in a club, he is thinking of all of the other Men who are thinking " Damn I would love to fuck Her!! "

Thus placing you in Category #1

But you're HIS Category #2 Woman

There is also the plain ol' male protective/possesiveness.

He doesn't want HIS Woman being leered at, pawed at and drooled over like some piece of meat by a bunch of Horny guys. He imagines the ways he has seen other Men behave over naked or nearly naked women. Then he imagines YOU being 'that woman'.

Now of course this is a FEMALE offering hypothetical insight on the MALE mind, I would love to hear what one of the Guys here has to say about my take on the Male Psyche.

E_P_S, I think this is true for a lot of guys. Not particularly flattering for my sex, because it does say that we only develope respect for you if we get to know you. I'd like to think it's not true of myself and that there are some other enlightened men out there, but I believe that most of them are definitely like this.

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

I never wanted to become completely desensitized to my Intimacy and Sexuality. I didn't want to have to learn to divide myself in the way that you must in order to be a successful dancer. I didn't want to lose the Majick and Mystery associated with being Naked and Close to someone I loved and cared about.

I haven't ever known a SINGLE dancer that could get on stage sober. They all had to be drunk or fucked up out of their minds on Coke or Meth.

There is a reason for that.

After awhile they all said it began to eat away at their Sexual Identity. They said it began to erode who they thought they were as a Woman, and what made them a Sensual and Erotic Being.

Yes, I've observed the same thing about strippers and sex workers. There's a profound tragedy that occurs when they inevitably become jaded due to the shallow attentions of men who couldn't care less if their favorite color is blue or if they are interested in ceramics or if today they just want to be cuddled. I admire and appreciate the choice you made in the face of some very tempting income. When I'm with my friend Nikki who has her own phone sex business, it sometimes seems that the path to intimacy includes the soothing of longstanding wounds.

But I have a basic philosophy about life that covers this and other things:

Don't make something you really love into work.

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

And uhh I know I'd spend BIG Money to see your Luscious Form in a pair of Black Vinyl Bondage Boots and nothing else..

*Hee*

If that helps..

Ditto on that thought ... YUM!

[urian]

I will have to say(just from my own experiences) that I knew very few strippers that were drunk or high when they danced. I did know a few that were junkies from when I'd bounce at the club but those were usually lifelong coke addicts or meth heads.
One of my exgirlfriends stripped, my roommates girlfriend stripped as well as there friends(many of them had been doing it for years) and none of them did anything aside from pot once in a blue moon.
Most of them were exhibitionists that loved to see the guys get "riled up".
As for me, I saw it as nothing more than her job and, honestly, her stripping didnt bother me one bit because I knew it was her job.

but that's just me.

[winged_dreams]

Ha! I'm jumping into the conversation. I don't think porn is cheating. Guys do have a rather crazy sex drive (I do too ) but they aren't doing any harm by looking at porn. It's just some moving pictures. Besides, girls look at porn too. I don't though. I prefer erotica.

[Sanctus Dei]

I'm glad that post sparked a bit of conversation...
Meh luv and I have had this discussion many times... I know I'm not wrong, and I know he's insecure about the matter, he claims it's due to the drug issue but I know better. I'm not sure I would even want to strip entirely but I may just compromise with him and get a go go dancing gig.