Goth: The product

KontanKarite · 12-14-2008, 10:10 PM

You know, I don't care for it anymore. Save for the music, I'm finding goth to be a terribly shallow and dull interaction. I don't like the product anymore.

I suppose I've grown tired of Demonia Boots, goth make up, goth pants, goth shirts, goth this and goth that.

I've grown tired of it all, really. The last full blown die hard goth I hung out with had his entire room decked out in the latest from Alchemy Gothic and most of his wardrobe was Shrine of Hollywood.

I go to a goth event or club and see droves and droves of people wearing the latest of Lip Service or Tripp.

I've tried explaining to others, especially the newer goths exactly what goth was and honestly, I'm kidding myself. Goth isn't about the music. As much as we'd like to think it is, it's REALLY about the latest fashions and the right mindset.

There are times I look back and see what I chose to do and honestly, I laugh at myself for buying goth for so long. Oh well, I just wont do it anymore.

The more I've exposed myself to the scene, the more I find I can't relate. I suppose I've found it to be essentially dull.

Oh well...

Godslayer Jillian · 12-14-2008, 10:29 PM

That makes perfect sense.

NightmareInShiningArmour · 12-14-2008, 11:10 PM

Are you saying you've grown tired of everything, excepting the music, that is goth?
As in, DIY clothes, dhawks as well as Tripp and Lip Service?
Are you resigning your gothdom?

KontanKarite · 12-14-2008, 11:18 PM

Actually, I never insinuated that I'm retiring DIY. Since when was DIY goth? It never was. Just accept it for what it is. Goth is the latest in Demonia Boots and Twilight. There's nothing wrong with accepting that today's goth is a mockery of the dark punk and post punk of the 80s.

In fact, if you actually DO participate in DIY, then I'm saying you're actually NOT goth, you are you.

If you are to say that you're a die hard DIYing post punk loving, brutal leftist, can you really relate to the goth that buys all the latest high dollar products for goths and pays lip service to the Christian Right dribble?

Goth is actually expensive black clothes, Twilight, Anne Rice, and Alchemy Gothic home decor. Let's not forget about the state of mind.

Eclipsing the Son · 12-14-2008, 11:47 PM

You're growing up. Time to find your calling.

A trade you can truly dedicate yourself to. Have you considered suicide?

Sanguine Mind · 12-15-2008, 12:12 AM

Since when are Tripp and Lip Service Goth?

Godslayer Jillian · 12-15-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

If you are to say that you're a die hard DIYing post punk loving, brutal leftist, can you really relate to the goth that buys all the latest high dollar products for goths and pays lip service to the Christian Right dribble?

Exactly! And then again, the DIY goths focus on is too superficial.
It's just clothing.
DIY is also for art, music, literature, brewing, even parties, and such. Anything that requires real creativity and input on your part to work. That's the beauty of DIY; not having accessorized clothing that no one else has.

KontanKarite · 12-15-2008, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanguine Mind

Since when are Tripp and Lip Service Goth?

Anything that you've EVER spent your parent's money on that was sold as a gothic product proves my point.

Goth is no longer an offshoot of punk. Even a goth with good intentions, starts their own on-line store, selling hairfalls, and gothic formal wear, proves the point that goth IS a product. It's not a movement, it's not something to aspire to or to feel proud of.

Does it not surprise you that I can literally package up a goth identity and sell it to you at a premium?

Since when was Tripp and Lip Service goth? Ever since the goth sub culture got saturated by formulaic, uninspired, and contrived individuals with no real sense of creativity and no real sense of belonging.

Cicero · 12-15-2008, 04:44 AM

This has been annoying me for a while. Goth is a shitty product being sold to shitty fashion scene.

Grab yourself a PVC corset, some Demonias, fishnets and a Bettie Paige fringe and viola... Ready to go out to your local 'dark alternative' night and dance to Gwen Stefani. Hair falls optional.
Oh and hey, if clubbing photos aren't enough to satisfy your low self esteem just throw the term 'alt model' on your myspazz and upload a few hundred photos of yourself in a dirty back alley covered in fake blood. Don't forget PC4PC.

Yeah, that pretty much described at least 20 people I've met on the goth scene around here. Such wonderful and interesting people.

Scareebowfairy · 12-15-2008, 04:49 AM

Yeah I agree. I suppose perhaps thats why so many people who get into the Goth scene dump it so quick, because in the end it is just another fashion statement. I simply like the music and the look that comes with it. It's nothing more to me then a style I've chosen to adapt for my self at present. My tastes may change in future, but for now I'm content.
The so called Goths I've met go on about how they like to be 'different' or 'Individual' yet they spend money they don't have on $300 Demonia boots because they are convinced to be a real hardcore Goth they must have them.
Tell me whats so 'different' about that and the teeny bops who spend big dollars on the labels?
The Goth subculture may of started out as a movement but like most things, has been polished and poured into a bottle.

jack_the_knife · 12-15-2008, 05:03 AM

I think you're just peeved about the commercialization of the subculture. You need to look at it from a different point of view. It's the same with every other subculture that's been around for more than 5 years. It becomes plastic ,sterile and commercialized. I think what you need to ask is " Is and was goth ever that different from other subcultures?". If you don't like the product, then change it. There's absolutely nothing stopping you.

HumanePain · 12-15-2008, 06:32 AM

I still see and meet genuine goths and punks at bus stops, at thrift stores and see them hanging out in alleys behind the laundromat. Grass roots goths playing violin for spare change in front of a pizza delivery store. The "real" ones are still around. And yeah, they wear DIY. Make no mistake, I see plenty of fake ones too and wannabees.

MollyMac · 12-15-2008, 06:55 AM

Holy shit, you transcended! What can be more Goth than being disillusioned with what your subculture has become at the hands of others??

Vivi · 12-15-2008, 06:58 AM

Goths shouldnt be trying to look like thier peers. They should be trying to look like thier idols at the same time as being artistic and expressive. Guys should look at the likes of Peter Murphy, Robert Smith, or Rozz Williams and imitate thier style as well as throwing in a bit of something that means something to them personally. And girls should do the same with the likes of Siouxsie Sioux. And DIY was never goth, but it was a big PART of being goth. The gothic music scene was about artistic expression, not insisting on appealing to the tastes of society. Goths should follow along with this philosophy.
At least, thats my opinion. Not that that ever mattered much to anyone.

jack_the_knife · 12-15-2008, 07:24 AM

Isn't imitating your "idols" a bit limiting? Why imitate if you can be and create something new and different within a subculture? If you're annoyed with people selling themselves as unique when they're clearly not, then give them something to aspire to. You need to consider that there was never any progress or direction in things if people didn't do anything about it. Seeing as you don't like what your perception of goth is as of now, change it, do something about it, make it what you want it to be.

Tam Li Hua · 12-15-2008, 08:19 AM

I have to admit, the Goth 'scene' has never appealed to me much, beyond the vague desire to dance to the music I love with others who also enjoy it. [That music being a mix of Bauhaus, Siouxsie, and various metal bands.]

But, as someone above me said, maybe this is just a sign of you becoming a mature adult..? Perhaps you've transcended to "Elder Goth"..?

KontanKarite · 12-15-2008, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I have to admit, the Goth 'scene' has never appealed to me much, beyond the vague desire to dance to the music I love with others who also enjoy it. [That music being a mix of Bauhaus, Siouxsie, and various metal bands.]

But, as someone above me said, maybe this is just a sign of you becoming a mature adult..? Perhaps you've transcended to "Elder Goth"..?

You see, this is ALSO something that I've been noticing. I'm not flaming you, by the way, it's just an observation.

Most goths I've ran into as of late and pretty much all the time, were really metal heads or ravers who happen to enjoy one or two actual goth bands. Who would listen to those bands in passing, but would really much rather listen to Darude or Type O Negative, choosing nine times out of ten, a non-goth band over the goth band. It's as if they've gone out of their way to embrace a very bare minimum in an effort to ensure that the noun of goth is applicable to them.

From my experiences, I've been able to better identify with real punks and honest hippies instead of goths as we know them today.

Oh well.

NightmareInShiningArmour · 12-15-2008, 02:45 PM

Ahhhh shoot.
I'm guilty of that.
Well not liking two or three goth bands and a lot of metal bands. I still share a love with most bands I liked before learning of deathrock and industrial.
I'd say I like a fair balance. I have Gnet which manages to inform me of wonderful bands

Then I have my friends, who are pretty much all metalheads (rough term of use) who still show me new metal and hardcore bands.

Screw it, goth or not I love DIY now.

Jonathan · 12-15-2008, 05:56 PM

Personally, if I tried to make anything I would end up as a walking atrocity.

I guess you could call it artless materialism, but rather than do something half-assedly, I can more conveniently purchase things that appeal to my tastes. For the most part, I look at clothes as things that let other people get along with their lives without knowing what they're missing out on by not seeing me naked. I don't really put a whole lot of thought into them other than that. Every minute I spend thinking about clothes is another song I'm not practicing, or another kata I could be improving on, or perhaps another Microsoft test I could be studying for to get that damnable MCSE. I appreciate the fact that other people have their interests elsewhere.

KontanKarite · 12-15-2008, 06:10 PM

You have missed my point entirely. While I share your thoughts to a degree, this isn't just about clothing. It's about buying yourself into an arbitrary lifestyle.

If you were to identify as a goth, yet had no inclination to avoid buying into something that is basically a pre-packaged identity, then what kind of goth does that make?

Somehow, I've lead you to believe this is about clothes, when it's more about identity. Why buy into something that's manufactured to make you look distressed? Paying top dollar to appear poor and artsy. It's kind of weird.

KontanKarite · 12-15-2008, 06:15 PM

Our thoughts are the same, Jon. Both of us are aware that goth is REALLY just a pair of Tripp pants and moody poetry, we just seem to grasp the gravity of that a bit more than the other.

Steppenwolf · 12-15-2008, 06:26 PM

*bit of a rant*
Everyone with a minimum of real individuality who tries to fit in a scene , will end up like this I guess ... Wondering why , and what the thing itself really means . If one is fitting and for what reasons .
I've learned really early in my life that "trying to fit in" doesn't pay at the end of the day . When you have to (comes work in mind only) for a reason , well , you do it ... Now tell me if you trying to "fit in" the scene is more about "learning" or "feeling acepted" . Usually is a mix of both I guess ...
You can change hot topic for any other shop . You can tell what is goth and what is not , and people even follow this blindly ... "Here is cool , here is not cool ... Don't you dare to discuss with the boss , we came here before you , in the 80s!!!"
Good , I don't need this . I don't try to fit in , unless its really easy amd makes me feel good ... If it's easy it's because that's most likely the real YOU . You can't get "tired of it" , not even find sooo disgusting that the thing is getting popular ... What difference does it make to your apreciation? Or is it not "so cool" because is getting popular? What do we want , to be X or to be "obscure and special"?
I much prefer to be myself , It's easier and doesn't need to change anything .
Mindset of the goth subculture? ... Bullshit ... I don't buy this . I'll never will , even If I don't have enough "elderness" , sorry ... It's just plain stupid ...
More about ideas perhaps , ideas not mindsets ... But again there is a difference between "scene" and "goth" . You can be in or you can be out , and at the end of the day is the fucking same because you'll always find in the mirror the same old guy .

KontanKarite · 12-15-2008, 06:37 PM

I think we're all touching on the same ideas here. :-/

KontanKarite · 12-15-2008, 06:43 PM

I think for me personally, the more I become myself, the more I stay essentially the same. I'm not going to stop enjoying things such as goth rock and such. I'm not going to stop making my own shit and having my own ideas, even if a scant few people share them or even 10000000 people share them.

I am simply disillusioned with the saturation of those that have NOTHING at all in common with me. I'm not saying that I'm even vastly different, that the lines are irreconcilable. But I will point out that with goths who DO enjoy the arbitrary norms, that goth is the last thing I want to talk about with them.

I have seen myself go from artist, to goth, and back to my rightful place as an artist. But that's just my own personal observations.

Steppenwolf · 12-15-2008, 06:44 PM

Just saying what I think , nothing else , as boring and unoriginal as it is .