Teenagers suspended or hit for violating dress code

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Eh, if this is a public school, it was more likely a paddling on the hindquarters than being hit on the wrist by a ruler. Also, it was probably likely that a female teacher would paddle a female student, and a male teacher a male student. [Not that that really cuts down on the wrong-ness of it or the potential for it to lead to sexual harassment, of course.]

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Why is it that you guys focus on how awful you feel the consequence is and completely forget that she broke a rule that was made clear to her?

Some rules are stupid, and before you say that it's 'her choice' whether she goes to that school and is subject to those rules or something ridiculous like that, the choice between suffering under a ridiculous rule and uprooting/facing the clearly irrational consequences of breaking that rule is only a choice in the vaguest sense.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Why is it that you guys focus on how awful you feel the consequence is and completely forget that she broke a rule that was made clear to her?

Mostly because the punishment doesn't fit the crime. :/ So the kid wore a rather low-cut [and not to mention ugly] dress to prom. Isn't three days' suspension from school or a paddling a bit too dramatic for this situation?

Yes, she broke a rule, but IMHO, the punishment should have been more like detention for a week, or cleaning up the school grounds for a month or something along those lines rather than suspension from school.

And paddling anyone over the age of about 10 is just wrong, IMO. I remember in my high school, 17-year-old football players sometimes got in trouble and were paddled by their coach. I thought it was wrong then, and I still think it's wrong now.

Edit: Also, I agree with JCC. Teens rarely have that much of a choice as to where they get to go to school.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Yes, she broke a rule, but IMHO, the punishment should have been more like detention for a week, or cleaning up the school grounds for a month or something along those lines rather than suspension from school.

For real? Cleaning the school grounds for a month is a better fate than being given a few days off school? Damn, that's some fucking work ethic you've got there. Also, violence as a punishment is wrong whether you're six or sixty, I don't think that 'she's a big girl now' is why people have a problem with it.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

Some rules are stupid, and before you say that it's 'her choice' whether she goes to that school and is subject to those rules or something ridiculous like that, the choice between suffering under a ridiculous rule and uprooting/facing the clearly irrational consequences of breaking that rule is only a choice in the vaguest sense.

How is dressing like a person with class while at a school function a ridiculous rule? School isn't a fucking fashion show, and it's not a dating service. If a girl wants to show her tits to the pizza-faced boys at her school, she can do it at the mall.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

How is dressing like a person with class while at a school function a ridiculous rule? School isn't a fucking fashion show, and it's not a dating service. If a girl wants to show her tits to the pizza-faced boys at her school, she can do it at the mall.

If she'd rented a Hooters outfit then maybe I could sympathise with your point of view, but it was just a prom dress that was a little low-cut. Had this prom happened in a different state then the whole debacle would've been a non-issue, which is why it bothers me that you're so eager to wax lyrical with the feminism and sexual liberty on the one hand and then indulge the reactionary sexual morality of the Deep South in the same breath just because you caricature every act of defiance as a silly teenage dalliance from people that don't know their place; every time you talk about girls dressing like 'whores' for showing cleavage you sound like you're channeling your inner Phelps, and it isn't a good look on anybody.

Also, referring to prom as just another segment of the school process is beyond fucking ridiculous; what is prom if not an excuse for people to out-snazz each other for one day of their miserable middle-class lives? They spend egregious amounts on tacky dresses, spike the punch and fuck behind a dumpster, that's prom. Nobody is smuggling in history textbooks and talking about what school is and isn't does not apply.

[KissMeDeadly]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Your surprised about corporal punishment in America? Hah! You can go to jail for playing music and dancing in public in certain areas in America. This is not so surprising.

*Cue Kenny Loggins music

Why is every post you make some sort of retarded anti-American bullshit? Nobody goes to jail for playing music in public, but I'm sure you, who has never been here, would know better.

Anyway, back on topic. Fuck 'em, I say. It's high-school, and it's honestly just not important in the long run. They gave her the *option* of corporal punishment, key word is *option* I would have been perhaps a little peeved if it wasn't optional, but honestly, how is this wrong at all?

For example, I can give somebody the option of licking my balls, but no biggie if they don't wanna.

[Entropic]

Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly

Why is every post you make some sort of retarded anti-American bullshit? Nobody goes to jail for playing music in public, but I'm sure you, who has never been here, would know better.

I thought Sternn was born as an American.

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC: Mm, ok, perhaps a month is a little long. Still, a suspension of three days looks worse on a permanent record than cleaning school grounds.

Then again, do universities and businesses even look at high school permanent records any more?

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

If she'd rented a Hooters outfit then maybe I could sympathise with your point of view, but it was just a prom dress that was a little low-cut. Had this prom happened in a different state then the whole debacle would've been a non-issue, which is why it bothers me that you're so eager to wax lyrical with the feminism and sexual liberty on the one hand and then indulge the reactionary sexual morality of the Deep South in the same breath just because you caricature every act of defiance as a silly teenage dalliance from people that don't know their place; every time you talk about girls dressing like 'whores' for showing cleavage you sound like you're channeling your inner Phelps, and it isn't a good look on anybody.

Also, referring to prom as just another segment of the school process is beyond fucking ridiculous; what is prom if not an excuse for people to out-snazz each other for one day of their miserable middle-class lives? They spend egregious amounts on tacky dresses, spike the punch and fuck behind a dumpster, that's prom. Nobody is smuggling in history textbooks and talking about what school is and isn't does not apply.

Feminism and sexual liberty aren't the same as being an idiot teenager, and you should know by now my feelings aren't reactionary.

As for your feelings on prom, do you think maybe America's school system going to hell and the way people's attitudes toward school have changed are linked? Christ.

Don't fucking tell me that teenagers have the ability to keep prom and academia separate, either, because it's just so obviously untrue that there's no point in even engaging with you anymore if you can't see it.

[Tam Li Hua]

^

Originally Posted by KissMeDeadly

Why is every post you make some sort of retarded anti-American bullshit? Nobody goes to jail for playing music in public, but I'm sure you, who has never been here, would know better.

Actually, the Capt. -did- live in the States at some point; I asked him the exact same question once, for the exact same reason.

But it's still strange how nearly everything he has to say is a negative criticism of the U. S. I mean, sure, we have our problems, but what country doesn't?

[Underwater Ophelia]

And another note on the feminism/liberty versus trashy teenage girls.

Wearing a low cut dress because all your friends and the celebrities do it and likely having confusing and unfulfilling sex because again, all your friends are doing it isn't sexual liberty.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Feminism and sexual liberty aren't the same as being an idiot teenager, and you should know by now my feelings aren't reactionary.

Sexual liberty and being an idiot teenager aren't mutually exclusive, either, and I think that pandering to the sort of thinking that breeds a punishment for 'dressing like whores' because you're showing cleavage absolutely flies in the face of any notions of female sovereignity and reinforces patriarchal attitudes towards female sexuality; people would have argued along the exact same lines for a woman showing her legs if you followed it back long enough. Was physical violence an appropriate punishment when the bloomer was popularised? If you think that it is the duty of a school to encourage women to be prim and proper and decent by punishing those that do not conform to such a standard then you are continuing a male-dominated strand of sexual repression, and there is absolutely no reprieve from that just because the people being punished are teenagers and you therefore decide it's an inconsequential act of rebellion. You've followed similar lines of argument before, that everybody should bend over backwards to offer their appeasements to figures of authority in the face of the most petty bullshit imaginable, and to be grateful that they treat you in such a manner. It's not as mature a stance as you think to cow-tow to the establishment all the time.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

As for your feelings on prom, do you think maybe America's school system going to hell and the way people's attitudes toward school have changed are linked? Christ.

People's attitudes have changed towards school? Are you saying that in a long-forgotten epoch, prom was not an opportunity for a girl to be on the arm of the boy that she liked, and that modern society has made prom lascivious? Even more ludicrously, are you saying that teenagers used to respect school in a way that they now don't? Neither are stances that can be supported by any historical basis, largely because they're simply not true, and you're certainly not going to slow a downward social spiral by banning tits.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Don't fucking tell me that teenagers have the ability to keep prom and academia separate, either, because it's just so obviously untrue that there's no point in even engaging with you anymore if you can't see it.

I am going to tell you that, and I'm right, too.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

And another note on the feminism/liberty versus trashy teenage girls.

Wearing a low cut dress because all your friends and the celebrities do it and likely having confusing and unfulfilling sex because again, all your friends are doing it isn't sexual liberty.

That's great, it's good to see that this school in Alabama is fighting the good fight against the representation of gender and sexuality in all of Western civilization by hitting people for showing cleavage. If only everyone else had the good sense to be so enamoured with the fine work of this establishment.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

But it's still strange how nearly everything he has to say is a negative criticism of the U. S. I mean, sure, we have our problems, but what country doesn't?

Ireland! Céad mile failte, me pot of gold etc.

[Tam Li Hua]

^ Lol mssg2short

[Underwater Ophelia]

I'm not going to continue in this if you're just going to make assumptions about what I think and then use those assumptions in an argument.

[JCC]

Making assumptions about what you think? You said that these girls should stop 'dressing like whores'. Should they be punished for 'dressing like whores' or not, and does wearing a dress as low-cut as the one shown in the photograph to a prom qualify?

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

And another note on the feminism/liberty versus trashy teenage girls.

Wearing a low cut dress because all your friends and the celebrities do it and likely having confusing and unfulfilling sex because again, all your friends are doing it isn't sexual liberty.

Actually, I agree with every word of this. Difference is, I believe the kind of people you're talking about deserve be ridiculed, not physically beaten or punished in any state-backed sense. Besides, apparently the girl's sister got away with virtually the same dress, and "we know it when we see it!!" just don't cut it when you're talking about the official sanctioning of ANYTHING.

Face it, this isn't cultural defense, it's a power trip for morbidly repressed authoritarians.

[the-nihilist]

I think she should have been put in a pillory in the courtyard. All the other kids should have been encouraged to throw rotten fruit at her.