Want Perspectives from ALL races

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

"I really don't know why we need a whole month dedicated to blacks. It's not like they're the only ones that suffered. I mean, what about us whites? We're the ones that have to deal with these monkeys everyday, but you don't see us demanding a whole month to ourselves." - Zach Braff on Black history month

Morgan Freeman on Black History Month (and I cannot agree more with him):

Morgan Freeman says the concept of a month dedicated to black history is "ridiculous."

"You're going to relegate my history to a month?" the 68-year-old actor says in an interview on CBS' "60 Minutes" to air Sunday (7 p.m. EST). "I don't want a black history month. Black history is American history."

Black History Month has roots in historian Carter G. Woodson's Negro History Week, which he designated in 1926 as the second week in February to mark the birthdays of Frederick Douglass and Abraham Lincoln.
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Woodson said he hoped the week could one day be eliminated — when black history would become fundamental to American history.

Freeman notes there is no "white history month," and says the only way to get rid of racism is to "stop talking about it."

The actor says he believes the labels "black" and "white" are an obstacle to beating racism.

"I am going to stop calling you a white man and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man," Freeman says.

Freeman received Oscar nominations for his roles in 1987's "Street Smart," 1989's "Driving Miss Daisy" and 1994's "The Shawshank Redemption." He finally won earlier this year for "Million Dollar Baby."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10482634/

[~~Auriel~~]

Very nice addition AngelikDemonik. I think Freeman is right on that.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by ~~Auriel~~

Very nice addition AngelikDemonik. I think Freeman is right on that.

Partly and then no he's not.
If we 'stop talking about it', people will forget and while that's good that people are being looked at as people, what happens if it surges up again? People probably won't realize how bad it is because they've never learned about it and I'm afraid history might repeat itself in a new form of discrimination. The history of slavery shows exactly how terrible human nature and can and most of all why racism is wrong. Not to mention I wouldn't want such a horrific experience to just dwindle into nothing. Because it wasn't nothing. Same with the holocaust.

Also, part of what he said was basically what I said. I said that we need BET for now, but I don't like having one. It's the same concept with Black History Month.

[~~Auriel~~]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Partly and then no he's not.
If we 'stop talking about it', people will forget and while that's good that people are being looked at as people, what happens if it surges up again? People probably won't realize how bad it is because they've never learned about it and I'm afraid history might repeat itself in a new form of discrimination. The history of slavery shows exactly how terrible human nature and can and most of all why racism is wrong. Not to mention I wouldn't want such a horrific experience to just dwindle into nothing. Because it wasn't nothing. Same with the holocaust.

Also, part of what he said was basically what I said. I said that we need BET for now, but I don't like having one. It's the same concept with Black History Month.

I'm sorry Mitsy, I should have been more specific. Freeman's attitude towards "Black History Month," is agreeable as far as I'm concerned. It is ridiculous in today's day and age that something like that is still needed. As a society we should have progressed much farther by now. It is American History, just like Native American History is American History.
I do think it is important to talk about it...it is such a taboo that people are afraid to talk about, but just like with friends or lovers, talking can work things out. I am of mixed race, my father white, and my mother half Native American. By talking about it, I got over the racials slurs and jokes. I even tell a few about Native Americans or whites now and then. I don't think, however, any kind of joke that involves violence is appropriate, as violence is never funny. Though I would like to share some of these jokes, because they actually are quite funny, but I don't think it would be appropriate as many do not feel the same way I do.
The bottom line is, we shouldn't be creating labels. Race, and sex or gender, in most cases is entirely irrelevant.
Barak Obama for one. It doesn't matter if he is black, white, green, red, or blue. It is irrelevant if he is a man, woman, or hemaphrodite (lol, sorry I couldn't resist some comic relief). What matters is that he is a presidential candidate, and we should be evaluating his platform, not his skin color...you know what I mean?
However, on the topic of Black History Month, I personally take Febuary as a celebration for all races. It is about the struggle that black people have gone through, but there is much to be learned for everyone in this part of history. I believe that, like you said, it still is needed so that we don't forget. People need to take a look at the actions, particularly of MLK Jr., Rosa Parks, et all, and celebrate the fact that few stood against many and prevailed. Those people in that era achieved something that seemed impossible...but they believed in it, stood up for it, and fought the oppression and SUCCEEDED. That is a good reason to celebrate, and it speaks volumes for blacks, but also for anyone who fights oppression (those of us with Native American Heritage as well). Though I know there was quite a bit of hatred still involved in society then, I believe those actions echo through time and I am hopeful that eventually most of society will look at each other with "colorless" eyes.

[JCC]

My beliefs on this are pretty much the same as Freeman's. I'm always calling people up on saying "oh, this black guy" when telling a story where his being black isn't relevant. It's still implying that they're separate, no white guy ever says "oh, this white guy came up to me" unless his being white is relevant to the conversation.

[Necrophagist]

They learn it from their parent. The whole ' victim card ' wank.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Partly and then no he's not.
If we 'stop talking about it', people will forget and while that's good that people are being looked at as people, what happens if it surges up again? People probably won't realize how bad it is because they've never learned about it and I'm afraid history might repeat itself in a new form of discrimination. The history of slavery shows exactly how terrible human nature and can and most of all why racism is wrong. Not to mention I wouldn't want such a horrific experience to just dwindle into nothing. Because it wasn't nothing. Same with the holocaust.

Also, part of what he said was basically what I said. I said that we need BET for now, but I don't like having one. It's the same concept with Black History Month.

No one is going to forget--that's just stupid.

When people say "stop talking about it," I don't think they mean remove all evidence that slavery and racism ever happened, I think they mean to stop putting so much focus on it.

And no, we don't need crap like BET and Black History Month. Both of those things only serve to separate black people further. If black people need their on channel, people ask why. The only answer that makes sense would be that black people are somehow so fundamentally different that they need different entertainment, and a special focus on their history, because it isn't the same as regular American history.

Those beliefs help fuel racism, and they're caused by race-specific crap like BET.

[~~Auriel~~]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

They learn it from their parent. The whole ' victim card ' wank.

I don't believe that's an excuse, or at least not a good one (which actually there is none). Unless you are 6 and don't know any better.
While I agree our upbringing does have much to do with our perspectives on that, we are free thinkers. We aren't required to hang on to the racist thoughts parents may have forced on us as kids.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

No one is going to forget--that's just stupid.

When people say "stop talking about it," I don't think they mean remove all evidence that slavery and racism ever happened, I think they mean to stop putting so much focus on it.

And no, we don't need crap like BET and Black History Month. Both of those things only serve to separate black people further. If black people need their on channel, people ask why. The only answer that makes sense would be that black people are somehow so fundamentally different that they need different entertainment, and a special focus on their history, because it isn't the same as regular American history.

Those beliefs help fuel racism, and they're caused by race-specific crap like BET.

BET's only around because the majority of TV is white-oriented. Same with Black History Month. A lot of it gets ignored most of the year in favour of white history.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

BET's only around because the majority of TV is white-oriented. Same with Black History Month. A lot of it gets ignored most of the year in favour of white history.

Oh yeah, I forgot that everyone goes around every month except February talking and thinking about white history.

Also, instead of using money to create and run BET which only serves to further separate black people, why not use that money to help talented black actors get parts, or create shows about issues black people can appreciate?

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Oh yeah, I forgot that everyone goes around every month except February talking and thinking about white history.

Also, instead of using money to create and run BET which only serves to further separate black people, why not use that money to help talented black actors get parts, or create shows about issues black people can appreciate?

Honestly Ophelia, blacks are usually only mentioned in history when it's about slavery or the civil rights movement. Black inventors get no credit. I bet you couldn't name three off the top of your head, but could easily name three white ones. Even better, try three Hispanic inventors?

Also, BET is actually white owned, thought I'd point that out to everyone.
And there ARE lots of black TV shows (in response to Al), other than the ones on BET. The problem is that they portray the same stereotypes constantly. I have yet to see a properly mixed show. Usually shows with many whites will have 1 black male and his family or there will be a one mixed almost white looking female. And shows about black families might have one white neighbor. They need diversity.

Anyway, I quoted your post to say that I can agree with some of what you said.But let's take that a step further. Let's fund shows that everyone can appreciate, like how I described above. I'd do away with BET for pure quality in seconds, but not until pure equality arises.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Honestly Ophelia, blacks are usually only mentioned in history when it's about slavery or the civil rights movement. Black inventors get no credit. I bet you couldn't name three off the top of your head, but could easily name three white ones. Even better, try three Hispanic inventors?

Actually, I can name black inventors, so fuck you for that one.
Also, if you're studying American history, no you won't find many black or Hispanic figures, because up until fairly recently, they weren't common at all.

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Also, BET is actually white owned, thought I'd point that out to everyone.
And there ARE lots of black TV shows (in response to Al), other than the ones on BET. The problem is that they portray the same stereotypes constantly. I have yet to see a properly mixed show. Usually shows with many whites will have 1 black male and his family or there will be a one mixed almost white looking female. And shows about black families might have one white neighbor. They need diversity.

It doesn't matter if BET is white or black owned--it's still crap.
Also, what do you mean by "properly mixed?" If you mean an even number of black and white people, then there isn't anything wrong with it, but it's not really realistic. Like Jillian said, the US is only 13% black. It makes perfect sense for a show to be primarily about a white family with a black neighbor or vice versa.

Also, what shows have black stereotypes? I feel that if a show had black people who were being that badly stereotyped, it'd get ripped off of the air. If I'm wrong, tell me, but I've never seen anything like what you seem to be getting at.

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

Anyway, I quoted your post to say that I can agree with some of what you said.But let's take that a step further. Let's fund shows that everyone can appreciate, like how I described above. I'd do away with BET for pure quality in seconds, but not until pure equality arises.

There's no such thing as a show that everyone can appreciate, even within race, so that idea doesn't make much sense.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Actually, I can name black inventors, so fuck you for that one.
Also, if you're studying American history, no you won't find many black or Hispanic figures, because up until fairly recently, they weren't common at all.

A better question, how many can most people name? I'll bet you not many, at all. I'm pretty sure however, many at least can say Ben Franklin. Also, black inventors go back past the year 1731. There's plenty to learn about that we don't in school.

[quote=Underwater Ophelia]It doesn't matter if BET is white or black owned--it's still crap.
Also, what do you mean by "properly mixed?" If you mean an even number of black and white people, then there isn't anything wrong with it, but it's not really realistic. Like Jillian said, the US is only 13% black. It makes perfect sense for a show to be primarily about a white family with a black neighbor or vice versa.[/quotes]

I don't watch BET, but I've seen it once. It is crap.
Also, I don't mean an even number of each. As you said, that's completely unrealistic. But if a predominately white show has a black person, it's more about viewers than anything, not equality. Ever notice in movies how there's almost always one black guy if it's a modern based film? It's just a typical showbiz cliche used for the sake of being used.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Also, what shows have black stereotypes? I feel that if a show had black people who were being that badly stereotyped, it'd get ripped off of the air. If I'm wrong, tell me, but I've never seen anything like what you seem to be getting at.

They exist. Also, I don't necessarily mean that all the black stereotypes are completely negative, it's just gives people this typical image of black people. Such as the old woman with the bad attitude and the smart mouth, Madea's Family Reunion anyone? Not to mention Tyler Perry's House of Payne. Everyone talks 'black', and then you might have the one male or female who 'acts white', and it's usually commented on. There's not many black shows that are actually dramas. If the plot is focused around a black family, then it's almost always a comedy and never serious, and even when it's somewhat serious, as in Diary of a Mad Black Woman, it instantly reverts to comedy and stereotypes.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

There's no such thing as a show that everyone can appreciate, even within race, so that idea doesn't make much sense.

When I say everyone, I mean all races. Usually shows get divided into the shows that black people usually watch and the shows that white people usually watch. Or shows that this race watches or that races watches.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

A better question, how many can most people name? I'll bet you not many, at all. I'm pretty sure however, many at least can say Ben Franklin. Also, black inventors go back past the year 1731. There's plenty to learn about that we don't in school.

As far as inventors go, you don't learn about them much period. You only learn about the shit that's really important. Carver is almost always covered, because he had a really important contribution.

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

I don't watch BET, but I've seen it once. It is crap.
Also, I don't mean an even number of each. As you said, that's completely unrealistic. But if a predominately white show has a black person, it's more about viewers than anything, not equality. Ever notice in movies how there's almost always one black guy if it's a modern based film? It's just a typical showbiz cliche used for the sake of being used.

...so you don't want black people at all?
I don't understand what you want. It seems like you think it's bad if a show has only white people, but it's also bad if they cast black actors as well.

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

They exist. Also, I don't necessarily mean that all the black stereotypes are completely negative, it's just gives people this typical image of black people. Such as the old woman with the bad attitude and the smart mouth, Madea's Family Reunion anyone? Not to mention Tyler Perry's House of Payne. Everyone talks 'black', and then you might have the one male or female who 'acts white', and it's usually commented on. There's not many black shows that are actually dramas. If the plot is focused around a black family, then it's almost always a comedy and never serious, and even when it's somewhat serious, as in Diary of a Mad Black Woman, it instantly reverts to comedy and stereotypes.

I've never seen those shows, so I can't really comment, but if there are shows featuring black people giving black people a bad name by acting out stereotypes, that isn't white people keeping them down. If black people want to be seen a different way than they're being presented, they need to refuse to be featured in shows like that.

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

When I say everyone, I mean all races. Usually shows get divided into the shows that black people usually watch and the shows that white people usually watch. Or shows that this race watches or that races watches.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I mean, if there is a show that appeals to mostly white people, who cares? I mean, if it appeals to white people because it's anti-black, then that's pretty bad, but it isn't really bad if different shows just happen to appeal to different groups of people.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

As far as inventors go, you don't learn about them much period. You only learn about the shit that's really important. Carver is almost always covered, because he had a really important contribution.

Well. Oddly enough. We've covered seven already this year. And I guess I'll just have to wait it out and see if Carver is covered.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

...so you don't want black people at all?
I don't understand what you want. It seems like you think it's bad if a show has only white people, but it's also bad if they cast black actors as well.

Not black actors. Black actor. The guy is only thrown in there to try and attract African American's, not for the sake of equality. And he's almost always a secondary character, if it's the all white vs. one black case, or he's the first to die in a movie. I'm just tired of the cliche.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I've never seen those shows, so I can't really comment, but if there are shows featuring black people giving black people a bad name by acting out stereotypes, that isn't white people keeping them down. If black people want to be seen a different way than they're being presented, they need to refuse to be featured in shows like that.

Well, naturally, I'm not blaming white people. I hate it too. It bothers me that actors would take those parts. I also hated it when Lil Wayne performed at the BET Awards, which my mom made me watch with her, and he was shooting off at the mouth, it was bleep bleep bleep every second. She commented, saying he needed more class because when one black person 'acts a fool', it makes the whole race look bad. Even to other black people. I'm black and have assumed things about other black peers because those same stereotypes have snuck into my mind. A good example of these stereotypes occurs in a situation between me and a new boy at school. I invited him to sit with us and he was iffy for some reason. We talked and I just amazed him. He was surprised to know I liked music other than rap, and more importantly by my appearance and way of talking. He was surprised because the stereotypes affected his view, even if he wasn't consciously thinking about them. That just happens with any stereotype. However I want it to get to a point where there is no surprise, no astonishment at my appreciate of art and music and writing and other things. There shouldn't be. But there is, because of the stereotypes made by these TV shows of which we are speaking of.

What's more frustrating is when black people feel in the need to fulfill these stereotypes. Even they get surprised when they meet me or my father. They expect me, same as some whites to like rap music and speak in a slang vernacular. Same with a few of my friends, and several experiences I've read of girls who've experienced the same thing.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I mean, if there is a show that appeals to mostly white people, who cares? I mean, if it appeals to white people because it's anti-black, then that's pretty bad, but it isn't really bad if different shows just happen to appeal to different groups of people.

I wasn't saying it because it bothers me that one appeals to one race more than the other. It was more that if there was a popular show that could appeal to many races, maybe it'd make things a little more unified. It's not a big issue, this bit at least. It's basically like most girls preferring pink compared to most boys. Pink is popular among one group more than the other, but even so, let's say purple was a 'median' color, it could possibly bring the two groups together more.

[~~Auriel~~]

Originally Posted by MitsyMayhem

*Snip*
Well, naturally, I'm not blaming white people. I hate it too. It bothers me that actors would take those parts. I also hated it when Lil Wayne performed at the BET Awards, which my mom made me watch with her, and he was shooting off at the mouth, it was bleep bleep bleep every second. She commented, saying he needed more class because when one black person 'acts a fool', it makes the whole race look bad. Even to other black people.
*Snip*

I agree with that. That doesn't just go for blacks, but other minorities and whites as well.
Recently in the news there were skinheads detained for plotting to kill Barak Obama. My husband and I read the article together and we both felt like, "Oh great it's starting already..."
People like that make me so angry. It makes me ashamed to be 3/4 white!

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by JCC

My beliefs on this are pretty much the same as Freeman's. I'm always calling people up on saying "oh, this black guy" when telling a story where his being black isn't relevant. It's still implying that they're separate, no white guy ever says "oh, this white guy came up to me" unless his being white is relevant to the conversation.

Agreed.

Guys, race means absolutely nothing. You can be any race or creed or all that nonsense, and it doesn't mean next to dick. So you're black, whoopty do, you've got more melanin than I do and a higher chance of getting sickle cell anemia, neither of which I give a shit about.

We need to shift our focus off things like race and on to more important issues. We've got the economy going into the tube almost worldwide (yes, it means the world doesn't have enough money to pay the world back, you figure it out), and we're nitpicking over trivialities like cultures? We've got bigger fish to fry.

[JCC]

Recession is awesome. Wait for the effects to really be felt and then see how partial people are to a new, far-left, system.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by ~~Auriel~~

I agree with that. That doesn't just go for blacks, but other minorities and whites as well.
Recently in the news there were skinheads detained for plotting to kill Barak Obama. My husband and I read the article together and we both felt like, "Oh great it's starting already..."
People like that make me so angry. It makes me ashamed to be 3/4 white!

Why? Being white doesn't make them act that way. Being assholes makes them act that way.

[Necrophagist]

Its a conspiracy theory!!!!!

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Why? Being white doesn't make them act that way. Being assholes makes them act that way.

I think she's trying to say that it makes her ashamed to be part white because those specific people where of her heritage. It makes me ashamed when I see black people do stupid things too. Especially at school.

[JCC]

Why? You're not your race, it's fucking stupid for you to cry "Racism!" when someone says all blacks are gangbangers or whatever, but then get ashamed of your colour because a black guy is a gangbanger.

[Necrophagist]

She's screaming ' misconception! ', not ' racism '.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

She's screaming ' misconception! ', not ' racism '.

Exactly my point.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Necrophagist

She's screaming ' misconception! ', not ' racism '.

It's not a misconception, though. There ARE black gangbangers, just like there ARE white racist murderers.

To be ashamed to be black because there are black gangbangers is to say they represent you.
They shouldn't represent her any more than white gangbangers.