Gothic Discrimination in School

[Peter]

Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder

Uhm, not possible. One god as two aspects = two gods = polytheistic. I think what you're trying to refer to here is the God and the Goddess joining to become one. Let's refer, once again, back to the definition of Wicca.

Let's not refer back to the dictionary.com definition of wicca.

Let's not refer to dictionary,com at all.

Dictionary.com is not an authoritative source of information. Now Merriam-Webster, that is.

I think the Catholics would be mighty surprised that they're polytheistic because they have a one God who has three aspects. Your language doesn't even make sense here, chalk up another thing you're wrong on.

One god as two aspects != two gods != polytheistic
One god as two aspects = one god = monotheistic

Or, to put it simply, whereas you're saying one god etc.=two gods, I say one god etc. = one god. 1=1, not 1=2.

Really? Please explain. How is one any less horrific than the other? With those four little words, of course it does, you make it sound as tho because they were not of a dominant religion it makes their suffering insignificant.
At least, that's what I gather from your statement.

That's because you're wrong a lot. One death, no matter how horric and tragic is a sad, tragic murder, if this happened to several million people it's more horrific.

Duh.

That is your assumption. Might I add, a prejudice one at that. Yes, at times I do gleefully inform. I don't see where that is contrary. Believe it or not, which I'm sure you probably don't, I rarely ever discuss religion because it almost always gives way to argument and ill will, such as this entire thread has proven.

What is contrary tho, is the idea that I'm offended by someone else knowing something about paganism that I don't. That couldn't be further from the truth. I welcome new knowledge, if its presented in an intelligent manner, and if its in fact true. I've never claimed to be an expert on any religion, or anything, for that matter. Nobody can claim that, regardless of what religion he or she professes, because all religions mean something different to everybody. The problem comes when someone tries saying something is true when it is obviously not and I'm attacked when I try to prove to them otherwise. That is what I find offensive.

Prejudiced how?, then you agree, so you're prejudiced too? Hmm.

You've quite clearly demonstrated that you resent being shown to be wrong in a debate on religion. Isn't this what this tirade is all about?, because you don't want to be seen to be wrong on one single thing? I may know what I'm talking about, but I would never say that I'm infallible and everything I say is absolutely 100% right. Even in this thread. And what I said was true, you've even admitted as such, nor did you try to prove yourself right, you made a nazi reference instead, remember? You've never claimed to be an expert on religion, simply that you're never wrong. Totally different of course.

Stop right there.
It's not.

Honestly, I wasn't even thinking about the Spanish Inquisition, or any other Inquisition, when I made that statement.

Ah well, my mistake, some of us aren't infallible and psychic you know.

But your average ill-informed citizen doesn't recognize the difference between a Pentacle and a pentagram, thanks to our churches, schools, and especially the media - meaning movies and television, as well as news, news papers, magazines, etc - because to them a star within a circle is symbolic of evil.

Those ill-informed citizens are right.

No?, well, go argue with a dictionary.

Which I will also add, and reiterate, that evil is a point of view. Nothing more.
Satanists also use inverted crosses and crucifixes, to represent the anti-christ, though I have never actually seen that, that I can recall, in the predominant, established religion of Satanism, which was in fact established as an official religion by Anton Sander Lavey who wrote the Satanic bible. Inverted crucifixes are however, used in various cults that claim to be satanic.
And just as a complete side thought here, Laveyan Satanists don’t even worship Satan, or any other deity. They don’t practice sacrifices or go around butchering things. They basically worship themselves and commonly believe that life should be lived to its fullest potential because once it’s over there is nothing else. One of their most common philosophies reads something like “Smite me and be smited back ten fold.” It’s a very interesting read, the Satanic bible.

But, I'm straying.

(Continued...)

Yes, that's because you're not an expert on religion, which is why at every oppertunity you don't try and educate the peoples, even though they offend you by being ignorant of the things you're saying.

Or something.

And I'd argue that Neopaganism and Paganism go hand-in-hand. Neopaganism being a revival, of a sort, of the old Pagan customs. It is more than just 'inspired by.' Paganism has never gone away entirely. Saying that it's inspired by, suggests that its a completely seperate form of belief or religion that just borrows aspects from the old world Pagan traditions, when truthfully, its much more than that. Through the middle ages and medieval periods it was hushed up for fear of persecution and practiced in secrecy, due in large part to all the Inquisitions, not just the Spanish. So technically speaking, tho some practices and beliefs have altered over time, there is no real, solid difference between Paganism of the old world and Neopaganism of today, other than, perhaps, that it is interpreted much more diversely now than before.

I want to say Peter, that I don’t try to blatantly discredit your views or opinions. All I’m doing is holding you to the same rules of factuality that you and everyone else here holds me to. If you have something to say then please say it, and I will listen and be totally objective, just like everybody else here should be. But just make sure that you have the proof to back it up, and that its not just a matter of hear-say, which a lot of what you’ve been saying in regards to religion, at least in this thread, is exactly that.

Factually, neopaganism is inspired by paganism, not a continuation of them. According to a real dictionary, a real encyclopedia, and real neopagans on for example, usenet, wiki sites, and even the word itself even means 'new pagan'. None of what I've been is heresay, and I provide better sources than you do. I don't try to blatantly discredit your views, they're simply wrong. Me knowing something more than you makes you have a hissy fit of sorts though.

Originally Posted by Peter

...if you can take "pagan" as a religion and then not define when religious holidays are and stuff couldn't you just .. well, do what the Wiccans used to do and make shit up as they go along and call it "being eclectic"

Originally Posted by ExistentialDisorder

is an ignorant, uneducated statement.

(Honestly, no offense to you personally Peter, but really... did you even research that? like, ever? Even a little teeny bit?... Didn't think so...)

Of course. Unlike yourself. The if then statement is logic at its most simple. Wiccans are known to use the word eclectic in reference to their religion a lot. Research for that? Usenet postings, try the same search in a wicca group. You'll like the link, they use dictionary.com

At least it's right that time.

Eclectic does mean picking the bits you like and using those. Hence my statement. Researched, not just by me, but by several community maintainers, several purely public forums in the USENet system etc. etc. and neither ignorant, since oh dear, it's true, and not uneducated either.

You're also inconsistent. Normally at this point, you'd have posted from dictionary.com, but it doesn't support your point, so you didn't, so loathe to admit any wrong, especially after promising to shut the fuck up.

I'm surprised you go like this at your age, frankly.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by TStone

What Peter said was very fucking clear, what you replied with WAS also very clear.

In case you're just joining us, this sums up the entire thread after page one, I made a statement that ED compared me to a nazi for. Rather than simply realise this and apologise, even after being given ample time to, ED has been trying to say that I was saying something completely different even though he seems to be the only one who read it wrong.

[nonfatsuperjesus]

Well, gothic could just be a black shirt with an cross. If it starts where does it stop?

[Sakred_Winter]

First of all, Im sorry everyone for not being able to post as often as I like. The school blocked me from this sight because there was profanity, and oh how ironic..our computer person is a good christian woman that does not believe in profanity, joy.

Anyway, I have no idea why this became a whol religious battle. I made this topic to talk about problems of discrimination in my and others schools. Public Schools that are supposed to coax a child, teach them to be themselves and succeed in life. Alot of people have the opinion of schools just being there to make sure that you're just like them. Schools are there to oppress you and chastize you into becoming the "model citizen". In other words, just like everyone else.
I don't believe that schools should be like that. Ever since I was in preschool, my teachers and everyone told me to just be myself, what others think doesnt matter. And all of a sudden thats not okay.
I believe schools should be like gardens, that children being the flowers, and the workers the gardeners. The teachers and principles and school officials to feed and teach them and let them grow into what they are meant to. You cant take away a flowers sunshine and water to make it grow into something else. Itll die, and a child will die inside. Becoming a puppet husk, nothing. I know I died in 4th grade..

[LeStAT]

well guys you should feel lucky to go to an american school , here in australia we have a set unifrom which dieviated from in any way results in an ass kicking , even jewlery of any time exculuding earings or a small nature are not allowed !! how much does that suck!!!

[Loy]

lestat-where in Australia are you at? I have a couple of Aussie friends, and when talking about the horrors of high school, a uniform was never on their lists of complaints. Is this a district-by-district thing?

ExDis-might I suggest you move out of where you're at and get yourself a hooker for the night?

Peter-I have this habit of speaking to people as if they were my kids when they refuse to hear me out, and I know they're not going to anytime soon. Take this statement as you may. As far as your "full of shit" comment, I could say "well maybe you're right....wait a minute, I can speak with my lawyers about this, since they have a thing for kids laws", but I think Stone gave you the spanking you're surly ass deserved.

Stone-can I just add on another "you rock"? After missing out on all this fun (for more fun of my own...including slamming back cans of Colt .45 with a certain "BC"....Alkilya probably knows who I'm talking about.....and my 4 million jobs), it's nice to see you at your best.....OK, I'll get the knee-pads.

[LeStAT]

hey loy , im from parramatta sydney nsw and every school in the state have a uniform , some are more stricked then other but every school enforces it , down here were in this big debate about islamic religious head wear at schools , there trying to ban it just like in france ? , were very mulitcultural in australia :-p!

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Loy

Peter-I have this habit of speaking to people as if they were my kids when they refuse to hear me out, and I know they're not going to anytime soon. Take this statement as you may. As far as your "full of shit" comment, I could say "well maybe you're right....wait a minute, I can speak with my lawyers about this, since they have a thing for kids laws", but I think Stone gave you the spanking you're surly ass deserved.

I never made a "full of shit" comment, and I was prepared to listen to you, the reason I didn't was the whole

Now, we here in the US have this little thing called a "constitution", which not only provides the structure of our government, but also maps out specific rights that we have and don't have. Along with this "constitution", we also have this thing called "the supreme court".

stuff, I mean, what do you expect me to say?

"Oh wow, really?!, I totally didn't know you guys had a constitution!"

And define human?

Well, er, define define then, that'll be a great way to get nowhere fast.

As much as I like you, I don't feel any need to respond sensibly if you're going to be patronising.

[Peter]

I would like to thank TStone for spanking my surly ass though.

He did it so well I don't even remember it.

Now if he'd spanked my remembering ass (it takes about five minutes to swap donkeys), then I could recall it in all its glory.

[TheKorovaMilkbar]

God I'm dumb, I hit the wrong f***ing button.

Anyways, I think there is currently discrimination in some public schools against *insert social label= 'goths' here*

In my high school, we weren't allowed to wear band shirts, trench coats, camoflauge, or have any piercings other than 1 in the ear.

Get this, one time the principle stopped me in the hall when I was wearing just a regular black with spikes, button-up shirt. He asked me "Is that supposed to be a picture of anything?"

"No"

"Are you sure?"

"Yes (when I was really thinking, 'NO. There's Satan right there and yes, I do believe he is winking at you.'"

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar

"Yes (when I was really thinking, 'NO. There's Satan right there and yes, I do believe he is winking at you.'"

That's pretty damn funny..

[HerGhostInTheFog]

i honestly think thats really stupid. my friend recently just went off on a head guy at my school for the dress code.

[Rosie]

I'm a nice girl.

[Jane13]

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

That's pretty damn funny..

I agree... and KorovaMilkbar is an AWESOME SN!! I used to have an avater of alex blinking that Alkilyu made for me ^.^

[Loy]

Peter-my comment (from "as far as my "full of shit".....to the end)....it was actually for Existential Disorder. That was my bad for not editing before posting it (happens when one hears the words "Ladies and gentlemen, we are now closed" as you're typing out stuff). That is my bad, and I take any and all responsibility for any confusion caused by it. Sorry to you.

As far as me asking you to "define human"...well, if you had read the rest of the original post, you'd understand exactly where that was coming from, and why I asked you to do so in the first place. Condescending? Try "Ethics 101", since that was the first question I was asked when I took ethics in college, and was also the first question others I know who also took the course were asked. Maybe, someday, you will too.

[Peter]

I doubt that, ethics isn't a course here, but thank you for apologising if you aren't making yourself insincere by patronising me just after apologising of course.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Peter oh Peter, how we've missed you...




What?





I'm halfway through a decent bottle of German Wine, thats pretty much all I got..

[goth_xx]

well in my head ia m too but in the realy life am a bad ass bitch

[Jane13]

Zah?! Wha?! Maybe..... Gah?!

[TheKorovaMilkbar]

Originally Posted by Jane13

I agree... and KorovaMilkbar is an AWESOME SN!! I used to have an avater of alex blinking that Alkilyu made for me ^.^

That's cool. Do you still have it somewhere? I would love that avatar.

I have Clockwork Orange pics of course, but out of curiousity, I want to see AlKilyu's creation.

Oh, and I have a shirt made on Cafepress.com for A Clockwork Orange. I need to order one.

[Icarus]

You know, if you are banned from being what you are, then, why the hell wouldn't you just get up, off of your lazy ass, and fight for your rights? I mean, if they want to restrict your ability to wear what you want, fight 'em.

[MrMaelstrom]

I'm not deleting your post, because it's insulting no one. But seen as death threats are about to get you banned anyway, I'll let you have your fun for now.

[Jane13]

[quote=TheKorovaMilkbar]That's cool. Do you still have it somewhere? I would love that avatar.

I have Clockwork Orange pics of course, but out of curiousity, I want to see AlKilyu's creation.
QUOTE]

... I can't seem to acccess my old messages for some reason :/ It was pretty cool... I hope I can get to it eventually. The shirt sounds neat.

[rockandrose]

I've never heard of this 'distracting' rule in schools before. This 'distracting' rule sounds disturbing and thought I've heard worse. Then again, I'm from Australia, and every country runs their education system differently.

I schooled at a private/independent Catholic High School, where strict ridiculous rules was part of your daily schooling life. The most uptight rules I've ever heard of during my teen years. Girls and Guys were permitted to wear only one earing per ear, no revealing tattoos, no MAKE-UP, no nail polish (even clear nail polish was evil; Ironic that teachers wore make-up and nail polish),no facial piercings, no shaved heads on guys or girls, guys must be always be cleanly shaved (the teacher will make the guy shave if he hadnt), blazers wore to and from school, no jewellery except for one religious necklace etc etc etc..

I think the rules I had to follow in high school was a bit extreme. I think uniform at a school wasn't compulsory, usually at a public school, then the dress code allow you to wear what pleases you, except of course if you decide to arrive to school in a bra and a g-string, then thats just funny.

The rules for the dress codes at schools shouldn't be legally binding, as they should only be rules enforced by teachers. At the end of the day, you're the one going to that school, if you don't agree with their rules, change schools.

I whinge...you whinge...you can only whinge so much....as whinging doesn't take you far...whinging isn't going to make the world a better or a more just place.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by rockandrose

The rules for the dress codes at schools shouldn't be legally binding, as they should only be rules enforced by teachers. At the end of the day, you're the one going to that school, if you don't agree with their rules, change schools.

I whinge...you whinge...you can only whinge so much....as whinging doesn't take you far...whinging isn't going to make the world a better or a more just place.

It's just that easy folks, change school, and never protest anything, especially if its a genuine greivance, that'll never work, India wasn't freed of British rule because of whinging, people.