Gothic Discrimination in School

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

I do agree that if someone is that distracted then they should be in a special school, but those schools cost money, and lots of it.

Even if someone has the money for it, everyone in this country is guaranteed a free education (sort of, but that's for a different thread), and it's pretty fucked up to deny that right because some asshole wants a pink mohawk.

Oh, come on - I was being a little flip with the special school thing. Is the fact that someone's wearing an off-the-wall outfit really THAT distracting? For more than 20 seconds? Even if you really do have ADD? I suspect it has more to do with outdated notions of appropriateness than protecting the right to free education.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

I suspect it has more to do with outdated notions of appropriateness than protecting the right to free education.

That's obvious. Who would argue against flamboyant clothing in the name of free education?
Even ignoring the absurdity of that claim, how do you draw the line? Nothing distracts teenage males more than a pretty girl. Why aren't you doing anything to stop this distraction?

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Even ignoring the absurdity of that claim, how do you draw the line? Nothing distracts teenage males more than a pretty girl. Why aren't you doing anything to stop this distraction?

Actually, I'm considering starting a petition. All schools should have basement dungeons for the pretty girls, so that the distraction they generate can be channelled into fulfilling after-school activities.

[Tam Li Hua]

Apathy's_Child: But what about gay teen boys? Locking up the girls won't help them not become distracted.

[Apathy's_Child]

These things take time, but long-term aims of the project state that within a few years all the students will be separated out concentration camp-style. Then NO ONE will get distracted and the children of America shall evolve into a new breed of genii. Better?

I think I just saved the free world.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You shouldn't be allowed to wear anything you want.

Someone is PAYING you to do something.
You're certainly allowed to not like it.
Then quit, and find work somewhere else.

That's not the fucking point, I'm just asking why someone needs a fucking dress code for an office job. You always do this shit, someone says something and you jump in trying to be a beacon of maturity and just end up saying something shitty like "It's school, you have no rights" or "Your parents want to uproot you completely with no regard for you or your needs as a teenager with their own life? Stop being such a whingy cunt" or "If you don't like the rules that are a fairly ubiquitous part of working life so you can't take the advice that I'm about to give you anyway, just leave." Dress codes aren't necessary for an office job. Your opinion on everything seems to be that figures of authority should never justify any decisions.

[Tam Li Hua]

JCC: Usually potential employees don't fight their potential bosses about the dress code because it's just not that big of a deal. Also, whoever one works for in an office most likely didn't have a say in the dress code any more than any other employee does. However, if it bothers you that much after you're hired, you can always seek out the person who's in charge of it, and ask them about it in a mature and adult manner.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

JCC: Usually potential employees don't fight their potential bosses about the dress code because it's just not that big of a deal. Also, whoever one works for in an office most likely didn't have a say in the dress code any more than any other employee does.

I'm not implying that it's a large issue, although it does really baffle me that so worthless a rule is so widespread.

[Godslayer Jillian]

And like always, Tam misses the point.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm not implying that it's a large issue, although it does really baffle me that so worthless a rule is so widespread.

I dunno; I figured it spread in similar ways as to how any other fashion trend spreads.

Jillian: That's fine with me; the basis for this whole conversation seemed a bit odd to me anyways.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

That's not the fucking point, I'm just asking why someone needs a fucking dress code for an office job. You always do this shit, someone says something and you jump in trying to be a beacon of maturity and just end up saying something shitty like "It's school, you have no rights" or "Your parents want to uproot you completely with no regard for you or your needs as a teenager with their own life? Stop being such a whingy cunt" or "If you don't like the rules that are a fairly ubiquitous part of working life so you can't take the advice that I'm about to give you anyway, just leave." Dress codes aren't necessary for an office job. Your opinion on everything seems to be that figures of authority should never justify any decisions.

I never said anything about all offices having dress codes.
Some do, some don't.
Either way is perfectly fair to me.


And my opinion is not that figures of authority should never justify their decisions, but in some cases, they shouldn't have to.

If I own a business and require that everyone there wears assless chaps, and you accept the job, it's not ridiculous to ask you to wear assless chaps, because when you accepted the job, you were agreeing to its terms.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

I'm not implying that it's a large issue, although it does really baffle me that so worthless a rule is so widespread.

Honestly, it's not worthless.
People get uptight about stupid shit all the time.

If this happens in an office, things don't go smoothly, and productivity goes down.
That's why HR exists.

If I go to an office job wearing a shirt that says I LOVE TO FUCK CHILDREN, people are going to be upset, and people who are upset don't work as well.

As you know, some people are idiots/sheltered/uptight, and would get offended by someone wearing goth or otherwise flamboyant clothing.
Why should the owner of a business tolerate low productivity so you can feel like you're expressing yourself at work?

[KontanKarite]

Offensive dress? Perhaps.

Then again, who's responsibility is it to govern one's reactions?

If I'm so offended by the way one looks, it's better for me to keep quiet.

But if for example it's a work environment, where gender roles, social stigmas, and arbitrary ideas of being adult are reinforced, who's to blame?

It's not the employer, actually. It's people themselves. It's the customer, the consumer.

I'm willing to bet that MORE employers DON'T care about how you express yourself and actually admire it. BUT, the problem is, the CUSTOMER DEMANDS you to conform to a certain aesthetic that doesn't offend their weak and feeble sensibilities.

It's the customers' responsibility to stop being so fucking prejudiced.

As for the company itself, where ever it's at, they're only there to create a good product and make as much money as possible. To do that, they're going to meet demands, weather that's by product or by social norms.

So in short, if anyone is the asshole, it's the customer.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

If I go to an office job wearing a shirt that says I LOVE TO FUCK CHILDREN, people are going to be upset, and people who are upset don't work as well.

Why the fuck would anyone say "Yay, I can wear what I want; time to wear a shirt about fucking children!" and don't you think that's a little different to just not having to wear a uniform? You might as well say that we should all walk around in uniform wherever we are, otherwise there's the possibility that someone will wear a shirt saying "I hate nigg*ers."

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by JCC

Why the fuck would anyone say "Yay, I can wear what I want; time to wear a shirt about fucking children!" and don't you think that's a little different to just not having to wear a uniform? You might as well say that we should all walk around in uniform wherever we are, otherwise there's the possibility that someone will wear a shirt saying "I hate nigg*ers."

You missed the point or are just being difficult.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

You missed the point or are just being difficult.

Part of it is just being difficult but generally I'm just wondering why you have this kneejerk assumption that if adults at work are told that they no longer have to wear a uniform, it would be a bad thing because they might start wearing offensive things. Would you, or anyone that you know, wear an intentionally upsetting shirt anywhere, let alone at work?

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by JCC

Part of it is just being difficult but generally I'm just wondering why you have this kneejerk assumption that if adults at work are told that they no longer have to wear a uniform, it would be a bad thing because they might start wearing offensive things. Would you, or anyone that you know, wear an intentionally upsetting shirt anywhere, let alone at work?

Some people just don't get that their clothing may cause problems. I worked with a woman who saw no problem with the fact that her thong was showing because her pants were too low and her shirts didn't come down far enough. This was a grown woman, with a degree, who worked in county planning and development. There was no office dress code so when her boss asked her to cover up she got all pissy about how she was being discriminated against for being an attractive women. I have also seen people go to work wearing pj pants and not understanding why their coworkers don't treat them with much respect, some people just have a really weird idea of what is and isn't appropriate.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Some people just don't get that their clothing may cause problems. I worked with a woman who saw no problem with the fact that her thong was showing because her pants were too low and her shirts didn't come down far enough. This was a grown woman, with a degree, who worked in county planning and development. There was no office dress code so when her boss asked her to cover up she got all pissy about how she was being discriminated against for being an attractive women.

Is that really justifiable cause for offense? If she wants to show her ass a little, why should anyone who's not her care?

Originally Posted by Solumina

I have also seen people go to work wearing pj pants and not understanding why their coworkers don't treat them with much respect, some people just have a really weird idea of what is and isn't appropriate.

But surely this would become self-regulating - i.e. most people wouldn't do this BECAUSE of the lack of respect it might incur.

If they're too dumb to get it, I doubt they've got that much upstairs anyway.

I understand your point about the attitudes that make dressing however you like a problem - I guess I just don't see those attitudes as being worthy of validation, when they say more about the pissy jobsworth co-worker with a throbbing temple-vein than they do about the woman with her thong showing.

2 of my new favorite British slang expressions in one post, I'm happy.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Is that really justifiable cause for offense?

If the pants are particularly low, or the woman is particularly large [I don't mean just a little overweight, but rather someone who's 300+ lbs, give or take], then yes.

It's similar to going to the beach and seeing an old, wrinkled man in a thong. It's just not something folks, in general, want to have to see in public.

Do both parties still have the right to wear such things? Sure. But the general public also has the right to be appalled by it.

If they're too dumb to get it, I doubt they've got that much upstairs anyway.

Everyone has quirks. That doesn't make them any less intelligent or deep.

[a morbid curiosity]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

If the pants are particularly low, or the woman is particularly large [I don't mean just a little overweight, but rather someone who's 300+ lbs, give or take], then yes.

It's similar to going to the beach and seeing an old, wrinkled man in a thong. It's just not something folks, in general, want to have to see in public.

I chortled a little at that. :P
To be honest, Tam, I'm not sure that that can be justified as inappropriate as such.
It's not like it's emotionally traumatising. It's gross, sure, but it's not going to hurt you.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Is that really justifiable cause for offense? If she wants to show her ass a little, why should anyone who's not her care?

Do you really not see how this is a justifiable cause for offense? Would you find that acceptable in the workplace? A government office no less?

Also for the record I'm sure that she was once really hot, maybe back in her 20's, but she has fried her skin to the texture of leather, covered in lots of lovely age spots. It bothered people to have to look at her on a day to day basis so people were actually avoiding going down to planning and development so work was not being done efficiently.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

If the pants are particularly low, or the woman is particularly large [I don't mean just a little overweight, but rather someone who's 300+ lbs, give or take], then yes.

It's similar to going to the beach and seeing an old, wrinkled man in a thong. It's just not something folks, in general, want to have to see in public.

Do both parties still have the right to wear such things? Sure. But the general public also has the right to be appalled by it.

I really do get that, but being appalled by it is not the same as banning it. I'm appalled by MCR, but I don't want a government that has the right to ban them. Yeah, yeah, I know it's their company - I just think most people would take being able to wear cut-offs when the temperature's over 100 over never having to see something they'll most likely see the second they step out into the street after work lets out.

Originally Posted by Solumina

Do you really not see how this is a justifiable cause for offense? Would you find that acceptable in the workplace? A government office no less?

Also for the record I'm sure that she was once really hot, maybe back in her 20's, but she has fried her skin to the texture of leather, covered in lots of lovely age spots.

Wow. I guess I just didn't see how hot she is/isn't as in any way being the point here.

Originally Posted by Solumina

It bothered people to have to look at her on a day to day basis so people were actually avoiding going down to planning and development so work was not being done efficiently.

That is way more unprofessional and childish than wearing a thong to work.

[Solumina]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Wow. I guess I just didn't see how hot she is/isn't as in any way being the point here.

Wow. I just didn't see how it was my point and not an afterthought due to Tams post.

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

That is way more unprofessional and childish than wearing a thong to work.

Yeah my coworkers frequently acted like spoiled children, but at least they were always professional when dealing with the public.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Wow. I just didn't see how it was my point and not an afterthought due to Tams post.

Oh, sorry - didn't get that.

Originally Posted by Solumina

Yeah my coworkers frequently acted like spoiled children, but at least they were always professional when dealing with the public.

See, I can understand demanding smart dress when there's a meeting with outsiders or you're dealing with a client. I'm not against playing by the rules on principle - I'm mostly talking about when there's no one around but the regular workers, as is very often the case in many jobs.

[Solumina]

She was working in county planning and development which means that she was in the office where people had to go if they wanted to get plans approved for any buildings so on any given day there were a few dozen members of the public. In most local government offices there are few people who aren't seen by the public on a regular basis.