Him

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

For the same reason you feel entitled to object to it.

Ok, right, you're just gonna dodge my question, that's fine.

[Godslayer Jillian]

She didn't dodge your question at all.
That's the best answer to your question.
When I read your question, I was going to say exactly that.
You tell us under what authority can you object Lucretia's opinions, and trust me that you'll see what she means.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

She didn't dodge your question at all.
That's the best answer to your question.
When I read your question, I was going to say exactly that.
You tell us under what authority can you object Lucretia's opinions, and trust me that you'll see what she means.

Um. I'm not objecting to her opinions. Where did I do that? I may have disagreed, but no where did I made statements dismissing them.

And yeah, answering a question with a question is usually dodging answering it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I'm using the word Lucretia said. Getting into a dispute of semantics is much worse than answering a question with another question.
At least the answering a question with a question was a rhetorical tool Socrates used for his dialectic.

[Rae Ven Rae]

[quote= I don't take most of the music I listen to seriously, my problem is with people who do. It's embarrassing to hear someone profess how deep and meaningful something like the above lyrics is. Same goes for HIM. I have no problem with HIM, any more than I have a problem with the Cure. I just have a problem with fans who take things too seriously and get defensive about their favorite bands at the drop of a hat.[/QUOTE]

In essence, SHE is saying that SHE, LUCRETIA has a PROBLEM with folks like ME, who can identify with lyrics that she herself does not deem deep, as if her measuring stick alone dictate what depth is, or what someone should be passionate about and for what reason. If I want to cry over the beauty of someone's lyrics, why can't I without you having a problem with it? or if something can personally speak to them whether said lyrics ARE deep or compared to the fucking MONSTER MASH... you basically said that if I think HIM is deep I think trash is deep and have no taste

offensive and insulting!

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I'm using the word Lucretia said. Getting into a dispute of semantics is much worse than answering a question with another question.
At least the answering a question with a question was a rhetorical tool Socrates used for his dialectic.

Very true, but in this case, it's still not quite effective. First of all, to say "for the same reason I do" is both assuming I do, and assuming our reasons are the same. The reason I do anything is irrelevant here.

[Rae Ven Rae]

High fives Ophelia...

Okay, I am done -- and no longer pissed--Lucretia think what you want to think--judge other humans based on the criteria in which you will ...

Its' all love...

[Vyvian Blackthorne]

Gary Numan owns all.

---

Oops, wrong thread. Sorry.
Goth Forever

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

In essence, SHE is saying that SHE, LUCRETIA has a PROBLEM with folks like ME, who can identify with lyrics that she herself does not deem deep, as if her measuring stick alone dictate what depth is, or what someone should be passionate about and for what reason. If I want to cry over the beauty of someone's lyrics, why can't I without you having a problem with it? or if something can personally speak to them whether said lyrics ARE deep or compared to the fucking MONSTER MASH... you basically said that if I think HIM is deep I think trash is deep and have no taste

offensive and insulting!

I said I have a problem with people who take things too seriously. Unless you feel that this applies to you, then I never said I have a problem with you.

[MIRON]

I've written plenty of lyrics in my day, so I identify with lyrics and how they work with the mood and music. HIM just seems a bit contrived and forced. I put HIM in the same group that I put Manson.

I've only seen HIM when they've been on one of Bam's shows and they seemed to not take themselves too seriously. So I give them credit for that.

[††BlackRose††]

I like a few of HIM's songs, but not all of them. So i would have to agree with MIRON and say that they are the same for me as Marilyn Manson. Sure some of their songs are good but overall they can get a little too much for me.

If you love HIM then thats your opinion and everyone is entitled to say what they believe.

Off topic: Ville Valo is hot! LOL.

[badteccy]

Originally Posted by Haunted House

They're one of those bands that people only listen to because Bam Margera tells them to.

Or I mean...people generally like them.


Which is beyond me but still.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

I said I have a problem with people who take things too seriously. Unless you feel that this applies to you, then I never said I have a problem with you.

Are you saying that art can't be life changing or shouldn't be?

I get flak for finding the genius in Cruxshdaows music to be beautiful, inspiring, and down right tear jerking. Do I take CXS's music seriously? I suppose I do.

But I can't expect everyone to relate to their genius.

[Mistress Lilith]

The point is that all of us see 'deep' differently. Some of us may think that HIM is the end all-be all of music, but that may be too light for someone else. I personally love HIM but that's because I feel that they are something good to put on when I want to relax. Certain things resonate with some people more than others.

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Are you saying that art can't be life changing or shouldn't be?

No, of course not. I know that different people find meaning in different things. But getting angry and defensive when other people appreciate things on a different level than oneself - be it on a deeper or more shallow level - that's where the 'taking things too seriously' issue comes in.

[MIRON]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Are you saying that art can't be life changing or shouldn't be?

I get flak for finding the genius in Cruxshdaows music to be beautiful, inspiring, and down right tear jerking. Do I take CXS's music seriously? I suppose I do.

But I can't expect everyone to relate to their genius.

Sometimes it's just the way people state things. I'd probably be really offended if someone told me I was unable to relate to the genius of some band I thought was crap. Just like they'd be offended if I told them some band they believe to be inspiring was crap.

[zeronegativeplus]

HIM rocks! he he

[Rae Ven Rae]

I don't care if people disagree--I just don't like it if someone claims I SHOULDN'T feel or be a certain way about any given thing, not just HIM. It is a mega pet peeve of mine, probably cause my Dad was so emotionally unavailable or some shit--made me feel like I didn't have the right to my own thoughts or feelings. whatever. Besides, if I am passionate about something, then of COURSE I am BOUND to take it too seriously, tis the nature of passion, otherwise, I'd be somewhat, lets say ambivalent, or take it or leave it, but if I am passionate and someone says something negative in regards to me BEING passionate about it, then of course I will get defensive and feel insulted.

That said, if the wording of your post made me assume you were making a slight against people who were passionte about lyrics and such and I took it the wrong way, I duly apologize, cuz I do think youse kewl and all...

And I agree--Ville is the bees knees...

[LadyLucretia]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

if I am passionate and someone says something negative in regards to me BEING passionate about it, then of course I will get defensive and feel insulted.

I think you may need to work on discerning when you are being personally insulted, and when someone is just criticizing something you're passionate about. Which is bound to happen throughout life, so if your natural reaction is to be defensive and feel insulted, you're facing a lot of defensiveness and insulted-ness in the future.

For example, if you posted "My favorite band - The Beatles" and I said "The Beatles are overrated," I am commenting on the Beatles and expressing my opinion of them. But if, because you are passionate about them, you decide it's a personal attack on your tastes, then you are bound to waste your time ranting when the 'insult' you're responding to didn't exist in the first place.

[zeronegativeplus]

Ladies, please don't fight...

[Rae Ven Rae]

Originally Posted by LadyLucretia

I think you may need to work on discerning when you are being personally insulted, and when someone is just criticizing something you're passionate about. Which is bound to happen throughout life, so if your natural reaction is to be defensive and feel insulted, you're facing a lot of defensiveness and insulted-ness in the future.

For example, if you posted "My favorite band - The Beatles" and I said "The Beatles are overrated," I am commenting on the Beatles and expressing my opinion of them. But if, because you are passionate about them, you decide it's a personal attack on your tastes, then you are bound to waste your time ranting when the 'insult' you're responding to didn't exist in the first place.

I still don't think you are getting my point--I am not upset you don't like HIM or expressed a negative opinion about HIM--I am upset you said my being PASSIONATE about them, or their LYRICS was wrong, or in other words, taking lyrics too SERIOUSLY was wrong. You can hate HIM all you want--don't tell me how to FEEL about something...

If I want to take something too seriously then that is my right...

[Rae Ven Rae]

If you will notice, lots of people said negative things about HIM and I didn't care example, Ophelia said Ville wasn't attractive, and we joked around about that -- --please don't gloss over my very real, and valid point. This has never been about YOUR VALID right to dislike what I dislike, or express an opinion different than mine. I ONLY got upset when you made a comment that people shouldn't take lyrics, or themselves, or choice's whatever, seriously.

People can take whatever they want to seriously, or even "too seriously".

You may think it stupid frivolous or whatever, but I have the right to feel stupidly passionate about anything I choose.

If I want to feel too serious about eating graham crackers then who are you to say it is stupid...my life perceptions and choices are not yours to judge.

Maybe my dad used to make it a special treat for me and it was a positive childhood memory association, so while it may be just "graham crackers" to you, " it could be the remnant of a ritual of a deceased father...

You don't have to understand WHY I like graham crackers, but only to respect it by not trashing my perceptions.

HEAR ME so I won't have to keep saying this over and over again please...

THIS WAS NEVER EVER in a million YEARS ABOUT DISAGREEING WITH MY CHOICE OR TASTES...this was about my saying I have the right to feel passionately about lyrics, or a band, or ANY GIVEN THINGS without being looked down upon for it.

So what if I take music, HIM, lyrics, shoes, gold fish or whatever too seriously -- do all aspects of life have to be even and bland?

In other words, I will and probably will always, take something I am passionate about "too seriously"...we all have something we love to the point of distraction, and if we do not, we live very shallow flat lives indeed...

[Rae Ven Rae]

IN other words * and this is my last post* saying "HIM sucks" or, "I don't take them too seriously" is one thing Saying *I shouldn't* take them seriously or *I shouldn't* think they are deep, is where I take offense.

The HIM sucks idea is your own personal perception and I can do very little about it nor would I, you have the right to your opinions, but when you say "Why do YOU take that so seriously" the comment is DIRECT and PERSONAL, and it no longer you stating an opinion, but trying to make me feel bad about MY likes or dislikes and how I choose to express how I feel about them...

[delicti]

HIM sucks as bad as melodramatic forum posts. At least with HIM, that's part of the appeal.

[Rae Ven Rae]

all I am saying is respect peoples choices to like or dislike something...to agree to disagree respectfully...