Poor = Punk?

Joker_in_the_Pack · 03-09-2009, 12:37 AM

I've noticed this attitude a lot in the punk scene for many years. Anyone who has any bit of money is instantly labeled a poser or a sell out. It seems that if the system isn't 100% completely screwing you to death, you can't be against it. It's ridiculous. Frederic Engels was a wealthy factory owner, but nobody would deny that he hated the system he lived in. Peter Kropotkin was, in my opinion, one of the most visionary anarchists and he was not only a prince, but the son of a very wealthy royal family member in Russia. Is anyone going to tell me Kropotkin and Engels are posers? I think, if anything, having money would be helpful, you would have more resources fund activist things. Crass made money, they didn't work for bloody peanuts. What they did was take all the money and use it to organize squats and protests.

So why is there such a large, "you have to be dirt fuck poor to be punk" mentality?

jack_the_knife · 03-09-2009, 01:24 AM

Probably because people have the false opinion that being punk is about being poor and angry about it. Instead of being angry about the system that put poor people in that exact predicament. Either that or I'm completely missing something here.

Joker_in_the_Pack · 03-09-2009, 01:30 AM

It's become the glorified image. Being angry, young, and poor.

Stormtrooper of Death · 03-09-2009, 08:00 AM

I'm a punk and I'm not poor. I've been a punker for about 5 years now and throughout those five years I've held a job (mechanic!). People just stereotype punks as being poor. Same as they say that punks all have mohawks and get drunk all the time.

crucifix · 03-09-2009, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormtrooper of Death

I'm a punk and I'm not poor. I've been a punker for about 5 years now and throughout those five years I've held a job (mechanic!). People just stereotype punks as being poor. Same as they say that punks all have mohawks and get drunk all the time.

what, no mohawks? what is this foolishness you are talking about?!

Albert Mond · 03-09-2009, 03:47 PM

I think this idea comes more from the introduction of Punk into the mainstream. A lot of modern 'punks' are just suburban whites with enough money to shop at Hot Topic and buy a nice guitar and all of Avril Lavigne's shit. The idea that punks must be poor, I think, is mostly an act against that.

Godslayer Jillian · 03-09-2009, 05:11 PM

*sigh*

ok, step by step because there's too much wrong in this thread.

First of all, yeah, Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels are POSERS!
Consider their input to what we now consider Marxist theory. Their opinion was that in developing countries we should promote capitalism as pure as possible because capitalism is the step between feudalism and communism.
Lenin pwned Marx and Engels in this respect.

Now, as for Kropotkin. All that is entirely wrong. Yes, he was a prince, but he gave up his title at age 14 to feel closer with the people that worked for him. When he inherited his estate he desired to free 'his' serfs and give them that land for them to work it freely. But the Russian government persecuted Kropotkin and his brother, captured his brother who later committed suicide, forced Kropotkin to move to England, and seized his estate.
Afterwards, Kropotkin lived a very austere life, making a living as a cartographer because he refused to make any profit from his anarchist propaganda and teachings. Many times his friends would come to his house and even though his cupboards were virtually empty, Kropotkin would force himself to scrape something to eat for his guests.

So if you admire Kropotkin, yeah, you pretty much have to admire that he went from prince to pauper because he never wanted to provoke the death of innocents.

Now, as for punk. Since when do punks have to be poor?
In fact I only wish this were true!

Yes, most punk lyrics still (thankfully) glorify the working classes and the underprivileged.
But guess what. Most of these fans of such radical propaganda put to music, live in middle/upper suburbs and probably never have helped their communities by their own initiative.
Crass made money. And by your own admission "What they did was take all the money and use it to organize squats and protests."
Rimbaud lived a pretty moderate life.
Compare that to the tons of punk fuckers that spend forty bucks on a fucking bullet belt. Or have unnecessarily spent over ten bucks in nothing but studs so that their jackets can look like a fucking disco ball gone apeshit
If punk glamorizes the poor, they're doing it wrong, because no one in the punk community is trying to get away from the producer/middleman/consumer system.
They merely want to look the part. Like good, predictable, non-menacing, bourgeois fucks that they are, most punks will say fuck the system but this won't extend farther than smashing some toilet seats and bottles and talking about (individualist) anarchism on the weekends at night.
They spend more money on looking poor than most poor people spend on looking 'presentable' in the eyes of society. That's fucking hypocritical.
And those that actually keep talking about progressive shit, are they even consistent? Are they not wearing Nike? Were their pants not fabricated in sweat shops? Is their synthetic leather jacket not promoting a style that glamorizes the use of a material they pretend to avoid anyway? And why the stupid free publicity of obscure bands as medals of honor? If you want patches, why the fuck instead of wearing something to commemorate May '68, or the Zapatistas, you would think it's better to advertise for the overrated, untalented, uncreative piece of shit that is The Casualties?

In a movement that has been usurped by bourgeois kids, not to try and leave behind their lives of undeserved privilege, but so that they can feel there's something to rebel in their sheltered lives, why would you think it's a bad thing that it still tries to sway these kids into realizing their money is undeserved, and their overconsumption downright harmful.

Even I have virtually stopped buying new things altogether and I still enjoy air conditioner, internet access, and a very luxurious car.
And that's the one trying to do something about it!

I don't know about you, but over here, punks are like these:

A friend of mine goes to all punk gigs. She would 'never miss Stza for anything in the world' (I assume you know Stza is radical). And yet she has never been to a protest, she has never helped a charity organization, she thinks 'politics are boring', and she even likes Republicans.

The singer of the most famous punk band around these places, Med-X, is a fucking conservative cunt. He wanted palin to win, he is pro-life, he hates 'socialism' and Obama, and he believes feminists are just angry at nothing. I fucking hate the little shit.

And 'THE punk' of these places; the one who is the king of their little precious wannabe scene, has nothing better to do than to play in four bands at the same time, and say "fuck anarchy and fuck hippies"
I get along with him and I can still admit this.

Would you rather have that? Let the whole bullshit of "punk is apolitical" win over the hopes of real punks like Jello Biafra and Rimbaud, so that it's tweens wearing converse, and high school bullies and drop-outs, and soon-to-be business majors and graphic design students that just wanna feel "harder core than thou for a year or two; then it's time to get a real job" who feel there's something to be mad at? What are we mad about? Oh I don't know, but FUCK YEAH!

Albert Mond · 03-09-2009, 05:35 PM

Have to agree with Jillian. There's this other website I frequent where some pathetic scene foo' stated that 'hardcore' meant 'scene' in a way that really implied that he believed such bullshit.
Punk has become nothing more than saying "fuck you! I can be as stupid as I wanna be!". Rather than trying to get equal access for the poor, it's trying to get less access for one's self by saying 'fuck you' to any resource available. Education? FUCK YOU! The elderly? FUCK YOU! People over 17? FUCK YOU!

badteccy · 03-09-2009, 06:06 PM

Whatever, whoever tries to live a fully punk lifestyle in every aspect after 18 is a loser.

Albert Mond · 03-09-2009, 07:14 PM

What do you mean by 'every aspect'? Are there punks who live by 'every aspect' at all?

KontanKarite · 03-09-2009, 07:15 PM

Interesting thread.

My take on it:

Enjoy your youth.

Enjoy your music.

Enjoy your art.

Enjoy your life.

Who CARES if you really want to wear band patches and "look" poor. It's your decision and your aesthetic. As for spending money to look poor, go for it. I mean, if you're worried about making a statement and not about just having fun with yourself in an aesthetic sense, then go out and buy the plainest, simplest clothes you can find and go to some political rallies or whatever. But there's nothing wrong with enjoying a musical movement or looking a part. It's all in good fun.

The new punk is to appear as if you look aesthetically unimaginative and your actions are real actions. Real punk today is believing in the tenets of the ideals presented while appearing as if you don't have time to indulge in the glamor of past punk.

I say fuck it. I say do what you want and follow your heart. Keep making your music, your art, your clothes, have your parties... DO IT because it's your life and it's what makes you happy for now. If people want to ostracize you for putting a little romance in your life, then they'll do that. So be it. It shouldn't matter to you.

I see some people on here implying that because someone is of a certain social class, that they're not allowed, ethically, to wear certain things, believe in certain things, dream of certain things, and want certain things. And to that, I say a big whopping "fuck off" as for me, personally, it strikes me as more or less reverse conservatism.

Express yourself, Joker. If that bothers a few people on both sides of the political fence, then maybe you're doing something right for you and you're inadvertently showing that both sides may not be so different from each other after all.

The right wont give you money for looking or having a life style of a leftist. The left just wont respect you for the person that you are and harbor animosity because you're "not allowed to look poor" if you can help it.

Holy shit... fuck punk.

Albert Mond · 03-09-2009, 07:17 PM

Kontan is a ******. I will lynch him with my dicknoose.

KontanKarite · 03-09-2009, 07:20 PM

Like a vagina, Albert? Like a vagina?

Godslayer Jillian · 03-09-2009, 07:27 PM

Kontan, why the fuck would you endorse idiotic hedonism?

Albert Mond · 03-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Like a vagina, Albert? Like a vagina?

You'll be my bitch, and I've got the leash.

Slap Your Love · 03-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Kontan is a ******. I will lynch him with my dicknoose.

Ahaha. x)
________

KontanKarite · 03-09-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Kontan, why the fuck would you endorse idiotic hedonism?

OH NO! I put some studs on a vest that I made! I'm endorsing idiotic hedonism!!! My god! I have parties with my friends and simply try to have a little fun with my life. I guess I have no IDEA how to be a conscientious person because my Sex Gang Children back patch makes me a selfish, hedonistic fucker! Ohj noes!

Slap Your Love · 03-09-2009, 07:44 PM

My respect just rose a lot for you. Not that it matters.

Godslayer Jillian · 03-09-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

OH NO! I put some studs on a vest that I made! I'm endorsing idiotic hedonism!!! My god! I have parties with my friends and simply try to have a little fun with my life. I guess I have no IDEA how to be a conscientious person because my Sex Gang Children back patch makes me a selfish, hedonistic fucker! Ohj noes!

If that's all you can think of doing with your life with a philosophy of "just do whatever you please" then you really are sad.

Slap Your Love · 03-09-2009, 07:56 PM

That's not what he said and if it was what the fuck is wrong
with doing that if it makes you happy anyway? Nothing.

Stop telling people how to live you dictatorial ego crazed asshole.

KontanKarite · 03-09-2009, 08:00 PM

Now now, Jillian. You know better than that.

I know I've been mildly rubbing you the wrong way lately, but I see no reason to resort to such things as these.

Honestly, man, I expected you to be able to take a small example with a grain of salt.

Godslayer Jillian · 03-09-2009, 08:42 PM

You've been rubbing everything the wrong way. When was the last time you commented on something without saying "fuck it" ?

jack_the_knife · 03-10-2009, 01:18 AM

Am I the only one that thinks Kontan is burning out?

Raptor · 03-10-2009, 05:38 AM

Kontan says people should listen to what they want and wear what they want. And Jillian that if you talk about equality while spending money for fun is hypocritical.

How are those even exclusive anyway?

viscus · 03-10-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

Kontan says people should listen to what they want and wear what they want. And Jillian that if you talk about equality while spending money for fun is hypocritical.

How are those even exclusive anyway?

They're not. Tempers are running high in this thread for no apparent reason.