americans

[CptSternn]

Jillian -

I love Mexico. Visit there often. Cancun is brilliant. So is all of Baja. I have however never lived there for any amount of time so don't feel I'm the one to provide any commentary on the way they do things there.

Crimson -

Good question. Sheer boredom usually starts the thread, then watching the right wing-nuts get all up in arms and personalise the convo always cheers me up. It's a socialist thing. That and the fact every news channel I turn on from the states has right wing politicians trying to sell the war and its bias views to us. To think 90% of americans only have the news they view there and never see a majority of these storeys as their scope is limited by the very country that claims to be giving them 'freedom' seems ironic. By posting articles that most americans never see, maybe they will take away from it a view point the current administration is happy glossing over and hopes they miss.

It's even better when you can hit them facts they can't argue against. Like these...

Another year, another wage loss

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...her_wage_loss/

...Government statistics show that the typical family works about 500 more hours a year than families did 30 years ago, because it takes two incomes to make it. Even so, family incomes are failing to keep pace with the cost of living.

This past week, these items have been in the news:

The Census Bureau reported that median incomes for working-age families were down again, for the fifth straight year. Real median income for households under age 65 is down by 5.4 percent since 2000, even though the economy has grown every year. All of that gain has gone to upper-bracket people and corporate profits.

The Pew Research Center released an extensive survey on public attitudes about the economy. Pew reported, ``The public thinks that workers were better off a generation ago on every key dimension of worker life -- be it wages, benefits, retirement plans, on-the-job stress, the loyalty they are shown by employers." And, statistically, the public is right.

The Globe recently reported that chief executives of nonprofit hospitals now routinely make more than $1 million. University presidents are not far behind.

The Economic Policy Institute (on whose board I serve) has released its annual, encyclopedic report, ``The State of Working America." Among its findings: The economy's productivity increased by a remarkable 33.5 percent between 1995 and 2005, but real wages have declined since 2000. Employer-provided health coverage declined from 69 percent in 1979 to 56 percent in 2004. The top 1 percent's share of interest, dividends, and capital gains has risen from 37.8 percent in 1979 to 57.5 percent in 2003.

Politically, it's evident what is occurring. Those in a position to capture astronomical incomes are awarding themselves an ever-larger share of the national economic pie. Meanwhile, ordinary incomes, job security, health security, and retirement security are eroding.

The political mystery is why everyone else is not kicking up a fuss. After all, as the Pew report suggests, it's not as if people are unaware of what's happening. Here's a clue to some of the puzzle: Polls show that people do want more reliable wages, pensions, and health insurance. But too many people have given up on the idea that the political process can be used to restore the American dream.

*snip*

Lets look at this...

The economy's productivity increased by a remarkable 33.5 percent between 1995 and 2005, but real wages have declined since 2000.

Productiviy rises, but yet pay wages and benefits decrease, without anyone putting up a fight. Why? People are being forced to accept lower wages and benefits just to stay in work. And everyone knows without a saftey net, you have nothing to fall back on like you do in most every other country. People are forced under the threat of their family starving or losing their home to work more and get less. The current administration has emphesized this point - always taking of the 'sacrifice of the american people' while it is shown no one in the current administration falls into the class that has to make any sacrifice. In fact, the constantly profit off the sacrifice of the common american. Look at cheney and haliburton, bush and carlyle, and rumsfeld and merck.

Employer-provided health coverage declined from 69 percent in 1979 to 56 percent in 2004.

Every year almost 20% of the people declaring bankruptcy in america do so because of an unforseen medical emergency. With the number of people with insurance dropping DAILY, this means more people losing their livelyhoods while the rich get richer.

The top 1 percent's share of interest, dividends, and capital gains has risen from 37.8 percent in 1979 to 57.5 percent in 2003.

And the biggest issue I as a socialalist have reading this is this fact here. 1 percent of americans hold almost 60% of all wealth in the country. Thats right - one percent - holds 60% of everything. The other 40% of wealth is divided among 99% of the population. Think your going to invent something and make a million? Think you can work your way up by your boot straps to become a financial success? You have a better chance of getting hit by a falling meteor, as the 'american dream' only exists in 1960's paperback novels.

Busting yer hole will only make more profits for the company, feeding its top administration while yerself and those working around you lose benefits, fight for scraps, and in the end get 'laid off' at the first drop in profits so the board of directors doesn't loose their golden parachutes.

[Binkie]

I started noticing something here recently, Sternn. When I bring up a subject about you being a fraud or rubbing in a fact that you don't like, you avoid addressing anything I say. Obviously your being overweight bothers you, as you will not accept the fact. Hell, I mean you even brought up this thread and made unsavory remarks about people who are overweight - then it turns out you are overweight yourself and your response consists of nothing more than shutting your eyes?

Also, making blanket statements about all Americans being stupid is only expected to insult "right-wingers?" Mmm'k. I think you need to invest a little more of your "boredom" time into actually thinking out your stragety for trolling the boards here before you do. This is why folks here from both the left and the right have shown a keen distaste for your ignorant and contemptuous remarks in the past.

But at any rate, let's further exploit the double standard you have:

http://www.healthpromotion.ie/topics/obesity/

Turns out that being overweight is a big problem in Ireland now too, despite your wasted rhetoric. Every second person is overweight like you.

That makes the following statement appropriate, according to you: "The Irish are fat."

Obviously you agree - just look at your stance on the rest of this thread regarding Americans.

What's funnier is that people reported these stats themselves. So in reality, if a real survey was done by an outside organization, your self-denying overweight body would actually bring the stats up even higher and make the country look even "worse." Pretty ironic, huh?

Guess folks over there must love McDonald's too, cause there's 60 of these fast food joints there. Not like you didn't know, as you're seemingly obsessed with McDonald's food.

http://www.mcdonalds.com/countries/ireland.html

Ooo, they even have a special promotional drink called the "Shamrock Shake." Betcha washed quite a few of those Big Macs down with one or two or eight, eh? It's exclusive to Ireland so it makes you probably feel real Irish and less American like you so desperately want to be accepted as.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Binkie that certaintly does bring up some good points. And it does seem to be the case.

I don't know Sternn but it seems like you need to think before you speak. Or type.

[CptSternn]

Actually binkie, you never address anything I post -

As I pointed out, three times now, and you once again ignore -

The original article, which you continue to gloss over, states 1/3rd of americans who goto hospitals for treatment cannot fit in the machines or have a fat content too dense for rays to pass through.

Still though, you continue to talk talk talk about some math calculation for obesity. How people too fat to fit into a medical machine or too fat for x-rays/ultrasounds to pass through falls into some math problem you think is somehow related is beyond me.

Once again, you try and change the subject from the original topic, ie. americans cant fit into medical machinery and those that can squeeze their fat asses into can get any results because their body mass is too high in fat -

How does any of that relate to the CDC BMI chart? These people are obese, too big for machines - it doesn't matter how ye calculate them, they still won't fit into a machine. This is not a problem in Ireland - if you can find me an article saying 1/3rd of Ireland has the same issue with medical machines, I'll kiss yer arse in public and give ye an hour to drum up a crowd.

If ye can't then why not you know, actually focus on the article, and not try to de-ride the topic with non-relevant information. I never once mentioned BMI - you bought it up, and now argue against it. It has nothing to do with the aforementioned article.

Nice try attempting to change the subject to something not covered.

Crimson -

Good job falling into that fallacious argument. See, a common debate technique when a debater has little to nothing to argue from a stand point is to switch the topic and then convince the audience that their argument is the topic, not the topic they are currently debating.

As binkie has so done in the previous post(s). My article states 1/3rd of americans can fit into medical machinery like cat scans and other scan devices or that their fat mass is so dense that they cannot be scanned.

Binkie has attemped to switch the topic, claiming the CDC's system they use to calculate fat mass is incorrect - of course this has no bearing on people so large they cannot fit into machines - in fact, it has no bearing on the current topic.

The fact you are taken by this show you have not been following closely either.

Either way, neither post addresses my post - that 1/3rd of americans are too fat or their body mass is too dense to go into medical machines.

Doesn't matter if you try and argue that some math calculation is off, doesn't matter if they sell big macs in Ireland, none of that is relevant.

What matters is fat people in america, are still fat. 1/3rd of americans who seek medical treatment are too large to fit into machines or their body fat is too dense to be pentrated by any rays.

No one has debated this. Tried to change the topic, but hey, thats the normal response when a losing debater has nothing to say about the topic.

[Binkie]

Wow... yeah, that article is really worth even addressing, because we know that EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN goes to the hospitial for tests to be done in those "machines." Out of all of the Americans that post here, I'd like to see a headcount of everyone who's had an MRI done on them before. I know I haven't. Maybe you have, which would make sense. Most folks that are in hospitals are overweight and obese because being overweight and obese causes health problems. Ahhhh... see how that works? Of course you don't. Your eyes are shut.

The original topic was that you were trying to say that "Americans are fat." Notice that you were actually the first to deviate from the topic when you started posting articles about other such statistics after I called you out on your being overweight. For an example of what I'm talking about, because I know your selective memory will slip you, here's the post on THIS very page:

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...5&postcount=51

[CptSternn]

I've read the post. I made it. And once, again, you try and change the topic of discussion - I didn't say ALL americans are fat, thats words you tried to put in my mouth, again, exact same thing you claimed 3 pages ago when you attemtped derail the topic the first time.

I merely stated 1/3rd of all americans who do go to the hospital to get services are too fat to be in the machines or their body fat is too dense to be x-rayed.

Once again, you try and change the topic to something you can defend, but once again, you fail.

[Binkie]

Heh. You just sprung the trap again, Sternn. You're so small minded it's beyond funny, it's hilarious. Let's pay attention to what I said you did in the previous post:

Originally Posted by Binkie

The original topic was that you were trying to say that "Americans are fat."

Now you're saying that exact quote, which did come from you, regards all Americans as fat? Because on the previous page, I believe you tried to amend your remarks by saying I was errornous in believing that same quoted statement suggested just that.

Heh.

You gotta learn how to point a gun here one of these days, Sternn, instead of pointing it constantly at your own foot and pulling the trigger over and over.

And you're right, I'm getting off topic. Let's talk about American wages. That has everything to do with "Americans being fat."

No, no. Seriously, keep repeating your previous posts over and over again, despite the fact that you've been proven a fraud in your own remarks. It's amazing how truely shameless you are. Actually, "amazing" can be substituted easily for "pathetic."

[CptSternn]

Heh - each post makes the point more clear - americans as a rule are fat, ignorant, and pig-headed. You exemplify this point brilliantly.

[Binkie]

You come up with the most pathetic and non-defensive retorts. It's sad that you can't defend any of your remarks - all you do is just substitute your defense for offence and hope people don't realize you were caught in your own Catch 22 and found to be a fraud yet again.

Keep swinging there, slugger.

[c130]

Ahaha. We Brits are ignorant, fat and pigheaded too. If it were only Americans who were all of the above, this thread wouldn't have been started, because we'd all be too well-informed to make generalised statements, too modest to point out any shortcomings we saw, and out exercising and eating balanced meals rather than moaning on the internet about another country's culture. =3

[Carmaine]

Binkie makes excellent points, and also, you say that all Americans are Fat, Pigheaded, and Ignorant, Sternn? Well, isn't one sign of ignorance judging people on a stereotype? Such as: "All Irish are problem drinkers". I'm sure you could counter that with another, "All Americans are stupid". Are all Irish problem drinkers? No. Are all Americans Fat? No. Are all Americans Pigheaded? No. Are all Americans Ignorant? No.

Binkie's point about the fact that most of the people who go in to get X-rays or treatment, have something wrong with them. If you're overweight you have more chance of breaking something in a fall, or your back being damaged, or having heart/lung problems.

"1/3rd of all americans who do go to the hospital to get services are too fat to be in the machines or their body fat is too dense to be x-rayed."

...Kay. Lets go over that again. "1/3rd". Still not enough? One Third. 33%, .333, one out of three. As far as I know, 1/3rd is not a majority, its a minority. That means 66% of all people who go in for X-rays have no problems with it. Sure, there's fat people in America, there's probobly more here than in all other countries, but that doesn't change the fact that a sweeping generalization like you made is untrue. Are all Hispanics lazy? No. Are all Africans interested in Rap? No. Are all Asians smart? No. Generlizations and stereotypes fail.

[CptSternn]

We do drink alot. Our government tells us daily. We have reports out all the time showing increases in drinking in all age groups. A majority of Irish goto pubs after work before returning home. Not like the states, we stay there for a few. EVERY night. As a rule the majority does.

WE however don't deny the fact or try and water it down with other meaningless facts and figures, try and argue the fine points of the method of the survey, or sugar coat the results when presented.

We drink alot. And we are happy. I'm sure the damage done to our bodies is the same as is done by eating an america diet.

But we never said it was healthy. We never try to deny it nor do we attack the system used to calculate the results.

Americans are the only ones, even here, arguing a pro-fat lifestyle low education lifestyle.

It just goes to show - the REASON americans get fatter and fatter while the education system continues to get worse is because of americans like binkie.

They would rather argue the scale is broken rather than change their lifestyle. They don't want people to think their education system is in the crapper, so they cook the books to look smart.

This is shown even more whe looking at personal debt. Americans live well outside their own lifestyles, with the average debt of each american being 3-4 timeshigher than people in other first world countries. Better to look like ye can afford to live well even if ye can't.

We can see the same even in the american military. While other countries try to only accept the best and brightest, america lowers its standards to let in the fat, old, out of shape recruits in efforts to bolster their ranks and look good on paper.

My advise is binkie, and other right-wing nuts out there, keep fighting to keep america #18! Only you, by claiming all is well and sticking yer head in the sand and skewing the results on paper can keep yer nation plummetting down the charts in every testable category!

[Binkie]

Who is "we?" You've been in Ireland for all of one year and you're now the sole representative of your country? I've lived in America for all of my life and I still wouldn't be able to muster up the arrogance to speak on behalf of everyone in my country. Wait, did I say "my?" I mean, "our," because I'd like to remind our readers that despite all of your "we" and "you" rhetoric, you're American.

I also think it's hilarious that you can "admit" you're an alcoholic, but when presented with clear evidence that you're overweight, you deny it up and down and immediately jump onto the offence, trying to say in return I'm fat. So yeah, your rhetoric about accepting what you are is once again fraudulant. Try selling something more believable. Or at least admit that you're overweight, as the CDC clearly points out you are.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Binkie, stop calling him fat. We all got it, wether he recognizes it or not.
Sternn, simple question: why do you care about overweight in America and not in other countries?

[Binkie]

Yeah, I know everyone got it. They got it the first time I posted a link to the CDC's site with Sternn's given stats which labeled him as being "overweight." That's called , "competence." This isn't about anyone else getting it, it's about him getting it (which he already has, but will refuse to admit - unless he really is that daft). I've already detailed why it's key in corning him in this discussion, as he's caught in his own Catch 22, prisoner to his inane diatribe.

Besides, why even pose the question to him that you already know the answer to? That is, if you've been keeping up with his numerous statements here. You seem to jump in with the bold attitude that you have, so I'll assume so. In that case, you're familiar with the fact that Sternn already stated several times his only goal here is to troll the boards, Jillian. That's been stated numerous times. While he claims to only target "right wingers" (a shallowly veiled reference to me), he attacks Americans, in general, on a broader scale - even going so far as to insult the former "liberal" members of this site because they disagreed with is self-hating rhetoric.

Seriously though, you should know well by now why Sternn ONLY chooses to talk about America and Americans, Jillian. He doesn't bother hiding it. Not here.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I know why he does it due to the tone and content of his posts, but I want to see what "purpose" he himself says to have with these attacks towards America.

[Binkie]

Good luck. Trying to get a straight answer out of him is like jello wrestling.

[Spectral Despondence]

ok i'm american - but i feel ashamed im an american. And why is this you ask? Far too many reasons to list here - the US's population mainstream in general tend to make whats left of us who think for ourselves look really stupid -_- And thus i cannot blame any other countries for their criticism. And as if that wasn't enough... 'el presidente' and his shadowy administration make quite an impact i'm sure.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Americans can be stupid, blundering, fat idiots. Hey I'm American. But what else is new??? Every country has issues. Every country has stupid, blundering, fat idiots. America just happens to be more obvious about it.

[Spectral Despondence]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

Americans can be stupid, blundering, fat idiots. Hey I'm American. But what else is new??? Every country has issues. Every country has stupid, blundering, fat idiots. America just happens to be more obvious about it.

Indeed a good addition. Idiots aren't always fat though =P lol The only difference though really is that the smaller ones move faster.

[unedifying]

Yep. Most Americans are fat. It's true! I live in America--I see them every day! It's quite disgusting, but what're you going to do about it? No matter how much you call someone out on being a fat fuck, it all boils down to the having to take the initiative to lose weight. Obviously many Americans don't.


I'm glad to say I'm one of the few thin ones left. XP


Yeah, some Americans are just foolish; especially the people who don't speak Enlgish. They speak 'American'.




True Confession: When I was a young child (maybe three or so), the only communication I ever heard was Enlgish and animals. (Barking, meowing, etc.) I hadn't had any exposure to other languages yet; so I didn't speak English. I spoke 'Human'. XD (I'm still embaressed about that one. xP)

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

I speak American with the most proper grammar I can muster. And I must say I am not fat nor thin. I am quite average.

[Spectral Despondence]

Right on' - i'm rather slim and built 8) Probably not what people would expect without seeing me

[CptSternn]

Actually americans are the only ones trying to force their way of life on the world.

When was the last time Mexico 'pre-emtivly attacked' another nation in efforts to steal the resources? When did Mexico use its military to help globalised oil companies ratchet up their bottom line?

I must be forgtetting when Mexico sanctioned nations who did not do what they say and agreed to be a lapdog to their nation with a puppet government.

I mean, of all the things I know about Mexico, I haven't seen them do any of that...

[Binkie]

When did Portugal... oh wait, 2003. How about Spain? 2003. How about Japan? 2003.

Estonia, Lithuania, Amernia, Azerbaijan, Mongolia, Nicaragua, Norway, New Zealand, and many more that I don't feel like typing out because everyone here get's the point. All 2003.

Why use Mexico? What not some other even more insignificant nation like Honduras? Oh wait, that was 2003 too.