A Question from a Newbie

[*Twitch]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I do understand that right now I don't know everything there is to know about the Gothic subculture. In fact I'm reluctant to even call myself a true Goth because I don't think I know enough yet.

Maybe I actually will stay for quite a while. It all depends on what I learn in the meantime.

Trolls are the worst. They're everywhere and don't care about subject matter. I still need to learn how to deal with them.

First lesson: Divorce the terms "goth" and "gothic". They're actually fairly unrelated as far as it goes.

[Naunet]

Thanks for the headsup.

Speaking of which, what is the difference? Is Gothic the historical term whereas Goth is the modern aesthetic of fashion and music? Or is that a misperception on my part?

[Grausamkeit]

Ren, I know what you meant, hun. *HUGZ*

Twitch, don't take this the wrong way but....I think I might like you.

[Naunet]

Also, does Gothic literature inform the Goth subculture in any way? I have heard of many Goth people being interested in writers like Edgar Allan Poe. I know that not every single Goth person out there is into that type of literature, but I would like to know if that's a wild misperception on my part.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

Aww, you told her about the ignore. I thought you liked me.

You should tear his face! /violence mongering


Goth is as defined by Goth music, "Goth" clothing aesthetic is like any way of dress that associated with a subculture based on music; it is not really defining, simply it's a style of dress worn by some who liked the music, others saw it, liked it, thought it was cool and it became a trend that stuck with end result being that the music and fashion seem to be inseparable but the Music is Goth, the fashion is not, just common.

After this point we're out of the goth music subculture zone.

Gothic can refer to Gothic literature such as Emily Bronte's Wuthering Heights which is a gothic romance which is mostly defined by its dreary, and dark setting with elements that sometimes border on supernatural but anything supernatural is never explicitly stated really.

Gothic can also refer to gothic architecture. Don't ask me on that one.

Then there are the Goths, as in culture/race from way back when. Pretty much irrelevant.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Originally Posted by Naunet

Also, does Gothic literature inform the Goth subculture in any way? I have heard of many Goth people being interested in writers like Edgar Allan Poe. I know that not every single Goth person out there is into that type of literature, but I would like to know if that's a wild misperception on my part.

I'd say it's more a case of elements of Poe's works being attractive to certain people who just happen to be Goth, and when enough of those people gather together a commonality is found which then eventually integrates as an essentiality within the perceptions of groups.

Goth subculture is first and foremost, and pretty much entirely the music. Anything else is perceived essentiality integrated after some commonality was found between various Goths and/or between the subject matter of the some of the music and say the stories.

Goth = music. Period.

[Grausamkeit]

I would say that Goths are drawn to things of a more morbid and melancholy nature. As cliche as it sounds, it is true; Poe, Lovecraft, Byron, Dickinson...etc. It's not true of all Goths, though and some despise Poe Or Lovecraft(can't stand the latter, myself).

[Grausamkeit]

SirC is right about some commonalities becoming more or less 'the norm' in any culture. Some people do it for love, some do it to fit in.

[Naunet]

Ah--so now I see how there is a niche that is interested in Darkwave music and Gothic literature.

I can also sort of see why it's the morbidness and the melancholy that attracted me to Goth Darkwave in the first place. For some reason that's almost always what I like to think about. Not that I don't know what happy feels like--it's just what my head does for some reason.

I'm correct in assuming that not every single Goth out there would qualify as having a mood disorder, right? Even as a newbie, that sounds like a weird assumption to make.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

Nope, some Goths are healthy as healthy can be mentally and physically.

I have very mild paranoid personality disorder but I'm not a goth so it's ultimately irrelevant, I just like show-boating.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

I would say that Goths are drawn to things of a more morbid and melancholy nature. As cliche as it sounds, it is true; Poe, Lovecraft, Byron, Dickinson...etc. It's not true of all Goths, though and some despise Poe Or Lovecraft(can't stand the latter, myself).

Confessions, Part IV:

I never read The Call Of Cthulu. And I own a anthology that has it.

[*Twitch]

Originally Posted by Grausamkeit

Twitch, don't take this the wrong way but....I think I might like you.

Thankies Try not to get too attached, I have a bad habit of dipping out of here for several months at a time. There's a point where the boards hit a certain low and I need a break XD

Awwwwww I <3 lovecraft. I challenge you to a duel to the death to defend his honour!

[*Twitch]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I'm correct in assuming that not every single Goth out there would qualify as having a mood disorder, right? Even as a newbie, that sounds like a weird assumption to make.

Pretty much everyone can claim some form of mood disorder these days. But no, there's no connection. As previously stated, goth does have a tendancy towards the morbid, dark, and occasionally that attracts the odd oddball, but that's part of it's charm.

[wolf moon]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I'm correct in assuming that not every single Goth out there would qualify as having a mood disorder, right? Even as a newbie, that sounds like a weird assumption to make.

HA! I'm rather terrifically cheerful. I also play in the sunshine. (Okay, so I come inside to a room full of dead things, but whatever. Still happy.)

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

I actually like Green Day.

lol.

Sad thing is to most people this guy is indistinguishable from a goth proper

[Elystan]

Also what's funny is that here you all are bemoaning the misuse of your precious label, explaining that goth is a kind of music (which it never was but that's a different story) whereas the website title is about 'bone chilling literary culture'.

[Elystan]

Originally Posted by Naunet

Also, does Gothic literature inform the Goth subculture in any way? I have heard of many Goth people being interested in writers like Edgar Allan Poe. I know that not every single Goth person out there is into that type of literature, but I would like to know if that's a wild misperception on my part.

I'm gonna go ahead and dissent and say that it does, because as much as we may still have the recorded music, the subculture surrounding it melted into the amorphous mass of 'gothic subculture' such as it is today, which is in places informed by the literary genre.

ALSO LET'S NOT FORGET THAT BAUHUAS REFERENCED THE PICTURE OF DORIAN GRAY IN HONEYMOON CROON.

Ooooooh...

[Naunet]

From what I read in other sources, I suspected that there was at least a branch of the Goth subculture that was informed by Gothic literature like Edgar Allan Poe and Mary Shelly.

[Naunet]

And when it comes to Goth rock and such genres as that, I'm open to listening it, but I doubt I'll become a true hardcore fan. I might sort of like Green Day, but I have only three songs by the band on iTunes. And the only reason why I know who they are is because my father was the head electrician for the Broadway production of American Idiot.

[*Twitch]

I don't really want to live in a world where there are awful pop-punk musicals.

[Naunet]

Neither do I.

[wolf moon]

Originally Posted by Elystan

the website title is about 'bone chilling literary culture'.

I actually thought about this, too. The site seems to be geared (at least theoretically) more towards the literary.

[Naunet]

Originally Posted by wolf moon

HA! I'm rather terrifically cheerful. I also play in the sunshine. (Okay, so I come inside to a room full of dead things, but whatever. Still happy.)

Well, at least I knew it probably wasn't true.

[Grausamkeit]

Originally Posted by wolf moon

I actually thought about this, too. The site seems to be geared (at least theoretically) more towards the literary.

Site yes, subculture no. The forums are a different creature entirely. The site was originally owned by an olde school Goth who happened to be a writer, this attracted other Goths who wrote and also non-Goths who wrote dark literature. The tagline about 'bone-chilling literary blahblahblah' is something the current site owners put up there. Goths seem to attract other Goths if they stand somewhere long enough and that is an overly simplified version of what happened to the forum. Plus, that whole 'gothic' thing in the title....baby bats are drawn to it.

This site used to publish stories, but I don't know when the fuck the last time that happened was...

[Solumina]

Long ago the site was something quite different than it is today, it did start off as a literary site, that part has died but the forums have continued to survive. Goth and gothic lit and the cultures that surround them are not interchangeable but there is a sizable amount of overlap.