americans

[CptSternn]

I'm not for giving away the farm, but I am for giving a helping hand to those in need. As I mentioned before, the us is the ONLY first world nation that DOESNT have a similar system NOR does it have any national heathcare system.

These systems are monitored by controlling bodies, and you must reoprt, in person, every few weeks to talk with your counciler to make sure your not pulling a scam. The councilers also make surprise visits to yer home to make sure your living there and not scamming them. About twice a month they go around the towne and check offices, shoppes, etc. and see if people on the dole are working, in which case they drop their benefits and they are charged with criminal fraud.

The system can be abused, but what is abuse? I used to live with two flatmates who had been on the dole for 2-3 years, working just a single job or two for a week or two on random occassions. The reality is, there is no work for them in their FIELD. Thats the key term here. In america, if you lose your office accounting job, people expect you to flip burgers at the local chipper, where as here, you are given the dole until you find work in your field. As I also stated, you may also request college tuition so you may learn a new trade. The government will happily give it to you as it means you will soon be back at work, paying taxes and supporting the economy. This is the same in the UK and Australia. The abuse rate of this system worldwide is under 5% (I'll dig up links to that figure if you want).

Americans may abuse the system as you stated, like in the Katrina incident, but lets face it, the us government screws the people, so they feel like a chance to screw the government right back is something they are owed. In Europe and the other places I mentioned, people actually feel obligated to work, and have respect for the system, so they don't abuse it. Most people realise if they did try to scam the system, they could lose it (scamming the dole will get you banned from assistance).

I'm all for people working, but what good is it to have a man who worked 20 years as a <fill-in-the-blank> to be laid off and then have to work twice as many hours to get half the pay at a crap job just to feed his family? Thats the kind of thing the government is supposed to help you with.

When it comes to helping their own people, the current us administrations actions speak much louder than their words. Katrina response, and yesterday the report that the bush administration withheld the EPA's findings and allowed all those people around new york to breathe toxic air just because they didn't want to effect wall street.

THAT says it all.

Well, that combined with the fact they also are fighting global warming initiatives in the interests of big business, fighting smoking laws and lawsuits, and fighting bans on things like genetically modified foods and trans fats at the behest of big business. You will be hard pressed to find a current event that the us government doesnt side with big money on over the health of its own citizens.

Providing its own people with jobs and the means to live comfortably should be high on its list - not something people from other countries get and americans only read about. Instilling the idea that if you don't work your somehow 'bad' and that people collecting welfare assistance somehow are less than normal people is a tactic the right-wing has worked hard to put in every american so they don't fight for the same rights that are seen the world over.

Not only do you NOT get monthly holidays (as I also mentioned before, EVERY month has at LEAST one nationally recognised holiday which everyone gets off), and the fact you get two weeks paid holiday from the first day you work and unlimited sick leave (most places give you four weeks), those are just some of the workers rights seen everywhere, BUT america. And americans are taught that somehow if they had those benefits, it would be bad, so they argue against having such things.

Talk about a national brainwash. But then again, it reminds me of the american slaves who were born into slavery. They had no concept of freedom. Americans today fit into that category, as since most have NEVER ventured outside their own borders, they have no idea what the rest of the world has.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

That is a bunch of bullshit. A lot of Americans know what else there is outside the U.S. and know what else the world has to offer. A lot of Americans do venture outside the U.S. I would say that we have not been brainwashed thank you.

[unedifying]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

That is a bunch of bullshit. A lot of Americans know what else there is outside the U.S. and know what else the world has to offer. A lot of Americans do venture outside the U.S. I would say that we have not been brainwashed thank you.

Damn you, Crimson, for saying exactly what I was about to say. ( Speaking of seeing other countries; I missed the trip to Fracne with my French class last year--I just couldn't get 1500 dollars in three months with no job) but this year I will be able to make it to the trip to Quebec for the Winter Carnival. Whoo! 8D) Canada is a lovely country, so I'm very excited.

[Darkbender423]

To say that American's don't venture outside their borders is simply absurd. As for the health care issue, I think we should have a better plan, the politicians are just too busy fighting over the details too much. No one wants to pay those higher taxes. We do have unemployment benifits and there are programs for people who are out of work. We are proud of the fact that we work for what we have, it's part of the American way. WE don't need a holiday every month, there are plenty of holidays that we get to take off from work. We have weekends for kicking back anyway. I personally work 6 days a week, but if I want a day off I take it and my employer is fine with that. I have a good job, but if I had to go flip fucking burgers to feed my family I would. I might not like it but I would do it. I work my ass off and it is worth it to enjoy the life I have. I'm up at 5 am everyday and out the door by 6 and I don't bitch about it. Most Americans are hard working and we see the benifits of that work in everyday life. Granted there are some lazy ignorant people living here, but they are present in every country I've seen. That's the way some people are and if some lazy person who is perfectly capable of working chooses not to do so then why should they reap the rewards of those who do?

[CptSternn]

Crimson -

Define 'alot'. As a rule, most americans NEVER leave america. How many people do you know with a passport? In Europe, more people have passports than driving licenses. Also, how many people do you know that speak more than one language? Holiday in a different country each year?

DarkB -

I didn't say ALL or EVER, I said as a rule. See the response to crimson above this. As far as the rest of your post, it furthers what I was saying about being brainwashed. To be HAPPY your working so much, spending LESS time with your family should say something. Here, even fathers get time off when a baby is born.

I'm sure you do work hard, don't complain, and are happy with where yer at, but think how much happier you would be if you got a monthly holiday to spend with your family, a month of holiday time each year to spend with your family, and had the assurance from the government that even if you get laid off you will be compensated so you do not have to sacrafice your standard of living until you get another equal or better job opportunity.

Here, many women are still homemakers. They do not need a second income as I mentioned, the government pays to keep everyone equal so a single man can survive as well as a married man

You might be happy with what you have, but even that is being taken away. With the average us incoming dropping and more families having to have both parents working more to get less is bad. Because your training to think thats 'the american way' is also bad.

You can never better your lot in life as long as you let the government take away what you have generation by generation and you stay complacent.

On a side note, all those school shootings, the crime rate, the crazy kids getting arrested for crazy things (ie. not only murder and drugs but onces who go an vandalism sprees and that non-sense), all that can directly be linked to lack of parental supervision.

Yes, you might be a hard worker, good at it, and being doing good by 'american' standards, but I think many people forget that holidays, free time, etc. was made to help keep the family instituion together and should be treated as such. Maybe if the parents were at home more spending more days with their kids they wouldn't be out there going all crazy.

[Spectral Despondence]

Unedifying

First off, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously with that avatar?

Secondly, I don't think he was referring to race - don't know the guy so im not sure but i believe he was referring to precisely what you said. Yeah - he was rather harsh about it but look at the harshness of your statement directed at someone who obviously had no need or care for your opinion on her family. In fact i think were all stupider for having read your post. oh - and about people from low income neighborhoods. Color makes no difference and thats not the issue here. It was just an entrirely facist statement that you made in general without any racist tags. I myself am from a low income neighborhood in Detroit but i worked for everything i have and have never asked this government for help - even though im sure they'd be nice enough to give it. I could make plenty of speculations in the opposite direction right now towards you - but i have better things to do with my time than argue with you. Ill leave you guys to sort all this out i'm going to a happier thread =P

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Crimson -

Define 'alot'. As a rule, most americans NEVER leave america. How many people do you know with a passport? In Europe, more people have passports than driving licenses. Also, how many people do you know that speak more than one language? Holiday in a different country each year?

It's still bullshit. It is not a rule that most Americans stay in the country. And I know more people than I can count that can speak a different lanugage. And that doesn't count the people I know outside of my state. And just because more people own a passport in Europe than dirver's licenses could have something to do with ages of getting a license, and not everyone may use their passport. And your little rule happens to classify as an absolute, and there are no absolutes.

[Darkbender423]

Sternn--

I don't feel that I work too much or am being "brainwashed" and if you really knwe me you would know how free my mind really is. But you don't, you just want to make judgements so you can stir controversy, that is what you do and I can actually respect that because it keeps people thinking about the state of their life. However you can not make a judgement on someone without really knowing what they are all about and you don't know me. I wish we could meet, I think it would be very interesting for both of us. Simply, I do what I have to do in order to have a roof over my families head, food in our mouths, entertainment and to persue personal intrests and provide my family the opportunity to persue intrests of their own. My job is simply a way for me to achieve those things. I'm always looking to better myself and my family in anyway that I can. I love life and I do spend a lot of time with my family. I get off work at around 4 pm after my kids get out of school and I spend my evenings with them, not out drinking or some other mindless persuit. My job does not rule me and I am not a slave to it. I could quit tomorrow and have the confidence that I would have another by weeks end. To me it is simply a way to make money. If I want to take time off I make arrangements to do so without any problems. My income has steadily increased over the years, I've had my job for 6 years and my pay goes up every year. I do not fail to pay time and attention to my family, they are the reason that I do all the things that I do everyday and it is well worth it to me. I have never sold out my values or beliefs in what I hold to be dear to me. I make very good money, I have plenty of time for my own intrests, I can look anyway that I choose and am not discriminated against, I do things with my wife and kids and we spend plenty of time together.

We have a little thing in this country known as "unemployment benifits" you seem to act as if it doesn't exists here. It also helps people who have lost their job until they can find another. There is assistance here available to those who are in need whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.

The school shootings are certianly a tragic turn of events proliferated by some very confused and disturbed people who are crying out for attention that they are not getting from some area of their lives. It is a sad thing and it has a lot to do with their parents, I won't deny that. There are some really fucked up parents out there, so self involved and disconnected from their kids, they cannot see that their children are in crisis until it's too late. But there are bad parents all over the world, not just the US.

As for the passport issue. Most people have passports in Europe because of the close proximity of the borders of surrounding countries. People have more of an opportunity to travel across those borders and one can certianly drive all across Europe. Our country is bordered by two nations and we do not require such documents to go there, not yet anyway. You will say anything you can to make the US seem like a nation of evil, brainwashed idiots, but it simply isn't true. We may have some issues with our leadership and with our internal policies but the people here will always discover the truth eventually and will not lay down and take it for long. Public opinion of the war has changed so much already due to the admission of our leaders mistakes and lies. Nearly every American has at least one gun and we would not hesitate to use them to uphold our freedom from any enemy forign or domestic. Count on that! There are many changes that need to be made and they will I'm sure. Our freedom is certianly in a certian amount of jepordy but people here will not take things like that lightly.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

How many people do you know with a passport? In Europe, more people have passports than driving licenses.

Really? I would have never thought so from a continent whose biggest country is three American states' worth of land.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Here, even fathers get time off when a baby is born.

Ohmygoth! What a coincidence. We have something like that. It's called paternity leave.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

as I mentioned, the government pays to keep everyone equal so a single man can survive as well as a married man

No thanks, I prefer my waffles without Communism.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

You can never better your lot in life as long as you let the government take away what you have generation by generation and you stay complacent.

It's funny that you blame government for the consequences of free enterprise.

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I think many people forget that holidays, free time, etc. was made to help keep the family instituion together and should be treated as such.

Wow. That hit a soft spot. It's all revealed to me. Twelve more free days a year could solve the problems of the world! How could we have been so blind?
Sternn, ever heard of Veteran's Day? Maybe Labor Day? Memorial Day? The list goes for a while, by the way.


One more thing. Calling someone "brainwashed" is a pitiful attempt to attack someone who doesn't shared one's same ideas.

[BlackButterfly]

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Define 'alot'. As a rule, most americans NEVER leave america. How many people do you know with a passport? In Europe, more people have passports than driving licenses. Also, how many people do you know that speak more than one language? Holiday in a different country each year?

OK, if I could take a train for an hour or two and pass through three differrent countries, maybe I would have more initiative to get a passport and learn more languages. For Pete's sake, most of the countries in Europe can FIT INSIDE the U.S. at least three or four times over, and still leave room to build bridges in-between. And of all those countries, you have English, Spanish, French, Greek, Italian, German, Portuguese, Dutch, Polish and then the more obscure blended languages. It kind of becomes necessary to be at least bi- or trilingual and have passports.

America, however, is a lot bigger, and we DO travel. Some of us, however, would like to get to know a wider portion of our own continent and our nearest neighbors before we go traipsing across the ocean, and that can be a lifetime commitment just traveling and getting to know this hemisphere of the planet. Almost all of our schools readily educate us in the languages needed to communicate with our closest neighbors (French for parts of Canada, and Spanish for Mexico/South American), and a growing number is expanding that selection to other languages.

[unedifying]

Holiday in a different country each year?

It is more difficult for Americans to holiday in other countries every year because, unless it's been a while since you've looked at a world map, the USA isn't exactly close to a lot of other countries. Canada and Mexico, and even that can get expensive. I also know very few people who would want to go to Mexico.


You forget that it is much less expensive--and easier--to visit other countries within Eurpope.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Really? I would have never thought so from a continent whose biggest country is three American states' worth of land.


Ohmygoth! What a coincidence. We have something like that. It's called paternity leave.


No thanks, I prefer my waffles without Communism.


It's funny that you blame government for the consequences of free enterprise.



Wow. That hit a soft spot. It's all revealed to me. Twelve more free days a year could solve the problems of the world! How could we have been so blind?
Sternn, ever heard of Veteran's Day? Maybe Labor Day? Memorial Day? The list goes for a while, by the way.


One more thing. Calling someone "brainwashed" is a pitiful attempt to attack someone who doesn't shared one's same ideas.

I must say Jillian, everything you said right there covers about everything I was going to say.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by Crying_Crimson_Tears

That is a bunch of bullshit. A lot of Americans know what else there is outside the U.S. and know what else the world has to offer. A lot of Americans do venture outside the U.S. I would say that we have not been brainwashed thank you.

Don't worry, sweetie. I know his type. It's really popular right now to bash Americans, and it seems you're talking to yet another sheep. It's really easy to sit in another country and hear our president blather on and simply assume all Americans are equally as ignorant. However, the fact that this Captain person is unable to look past his own personal stereotypes based on a limited personal knowledge of Americans really shows us all who, precisely, is the ignorant one.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

Yes, you're very quite right. I shouldn't have wasted my time trying to argue with the ignorant twit.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I wonder what ever happened to Sternn.

[CptSternn]

Been busy fighting big oil. www.struggle.ws/rsc

Anyway, back (out) now.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Woah, if you indeed did so, I'm impressed.

[FatalDelusion]

I worked fast food for three years, not because I wanted to, but because I had to put food on my own table and it's damn near impossible for a lower class man from a lower class family to get anything better. Yes I am pursuing my education (an option not available to many lower class people, yes you can get tuition scholarships, but you can't work 60 hours a week, take care of a child, and attend classes even if they are free) but that takes years of suffering under a low wage and shitty job. The point being, through little to no fault of my own, I have come to be an expert on lazy Americans, Fat Americans, pompous blowhards, and the dreaded yet all too frequent combinations of the three.

I once had to argue with a woman for 2 hours during a busy shift while I was a taco bell manager because she wanted us to replace her $50 order (that's about 10lbs of food for her family of three) because of two minor mistakes on two items. She didn't want the mistakes fixed, she wanted to keep the food, have the mistakes fixed and get a refund. Of course I refused, and like a spoiled child she eventually drove back to the store and lo and behold, she was obese as hell. Most of the people I've seen have this attitude that they are entitled to whatever they want exactly when they want it. This attitude of disciplineless instant gratification produces obesity.

I also worked at a Rally's with an outdoor patio area. Most, about 70%, of the people who sat there, actually went through the drive through, parked, and then sat at the tables to avoid a 10 foot walk to the walk-up ordering window. The laziness is simply unreal.

At my previous job where I was selling life insurance, I once went to a house, got no answer at the door and left. I happened to be in the neighborhood later on, went back to that house and the door was opened by a young boy. Turns out this woman was less than 10 feet from the door the whole time, she was just so obese that she is unable to walk or even stand and she has her nephew do everything for her. And before you all jump on me for being a salesman, i just want to say that when you make 7.00 an hour in management with no where to go and no relief in sight and the fear of a possible baby on the way, you will do anything for the potential to make 50,000 a year.

These are by no means scientific studies or representative examples, but they are real situations created by real Americans. I do feel a certain sense of pride in my country, but even that is being taken away by the blatent theocratic bullshit in the government and the horrendous educational system.

I had a history class where students with difficulties learning, not disabled, just the ones who failed classes for any reason, were not helped at all in learning material, yet were taken into a separate room and given additional help and materials on the tests and then graded on the same scale as everyone else. This is truly representative of the attitude of public schoools in America, they would rather see a student passing a course while knowing nothing rather than a student squeaking by with a C that they truly worked hard to earn. And Bush's NCLBA is only furthering the problem exponentially. Instead of going through the hard work to bring the students with difficulties learning up and weed out those who can learn but refuse to, we just take the much easier path of dragging the top students down so everyone can be on the same level. Disgusting.

I will stick up for America on certain issues, but we really are a failure as far as Obesity and Education. (I'm 5'4" 160lbs and built like a small gorilla, My I.Q. is also 152 and I'm currently taking 300 level math classes as a sophemore at Indiana University, I am by no means fat or stupid, but many of my *shudder* peers are)

[CptSternn]

It's been a while since I posted to this thread, so here today is a whole new thing to attack me over...

One word - Borat.

I'm sure by now many have seen the movie, which is quite brilliant. However, if you never heard of Borat prior to this, then you probably wren't an Ali G fan. Borat the character has been around since 1997. That being said many of the skits in the film come directly from the same skits he did in england when he had the television show there.

The reason I bring that up - the reactions to the skits from the english and americans are like night and day. The first thing you notice is americans get physcially violent as oppsed to the english who tend to laugh it off. This is seen timeand time again. It is funny but does say something about the culture of a country that would physcially attack what they percieve as an ignorant outsider. Where as the english tend to try and correct him in many of his faux pas, the americans actually attack him.

The sun did a piece on this, as he was beaten up after SNL just last week by an american.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006520669,00.html

Then there is the lawsuits. As I mentioned, Borat existed here for almost 10 years. During that time he never was sued. People once they found out it was a comedy show laughed it off. Much like other hidden camera shows that have existed since the 50's. Only in america has everyone in the film who was caught on camera decided they need 'compensation' above what they were originally paid when they signed the release form.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2647648&page=3

On top of that, the frat boys in the film, who made some hobbily racist comments claimed they said so after drinking alchol provided, and that they arent racist. They claim they were 'drugged' with alcohol therefore those are not their real views, and they should be compensated for being given free beer and asked about their political views.

Then there is the couple who ran a b&b and the film studio super imposed a cockroach on the floor for one of the skits. They too say they need a few million because people think their home now has cockroaches.

Like I said, only in america.

The most bothering aspect of all of this for me is this - all of Cohens characters do the same thing - the lead people into situations where they feel superior due to the characters lack of knowledge. Of course this is to get the person(s) to say things candidly they they normally wouldn't say in todays P.C. world. On one side o the ocean they did this and people saw the humour. They did it on the other side, and people sue after their real comments come out. It's not like he scripted *their* comments, and these people ashamed and embarrassed for having their own actions show to the world now feel they must attack someone again.

I mean, they saw the cameras, they signed a release form - what exactly did they expect?

Maybe its just me, or does this not speak volumes about culture in america?

[Morrigan_Dubh]

'Cause he's an Ubertroll... and very good at it, too.

[xxkissxmexgoodbye]

well i have to admit... most americans are really overweight and are stupid... but the ugly thing well we can't help that. its really messed up here. we have socioty telling us to be size ----------0 and be whores... i don't believe in that. i am beautiful and am not fat only a size 14!! and going down. i actually try to be thin. its my own idea... we are constantly told here shut your mouth, the media is right. i am a christian and people put me down for it everyday. no i am not gothic and no i am not some uber preppy good two shoes. i am me. i do what i want and help everyone. i really cannot stand to see another person suffer because of someone else. it seems americans don't even have souls. we will push other people down to get where we want. its sick and i hate it here. honestly i am moving out after i graduate from highschool and college with dan... we are both finding a nice place in canada to live... its nice there... so yeah thats my take of all of this...

lets wait for all the OMG WHY IS A CHRISTIAN ON GOTHIC.NET??? *taps foot awaiting comments*

[Magpie_Tendencies]

Originally Posted by xxkissxmexgoodbye

lets wait for all the OMG WHY IS A CHRISTIAN ON GOTHIC.NET??? *taps foot awaiting comments*

My issue is more with your bad spelling. As a catholic that goes to an all girls catholic school, I could really care less about you being a christian on a gothic website.

And I'm certain that everyone else feels the same way.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Who put the chip on YOUR shoulder, kid? Why do you think we give a rat's ass what religion you are and how it relates to the subculture you've joined?

[Godslayer Jillian]

I'm getting tired of this "kissmegoodbye".
Kid, you better not think we give a flying fuck on all those things you boast about that are "different" than us.
OMG ur not a gawth!! Big Fucken Deal.
OMG ur a Xtian!! What's so special about that?
Stop thinking there's a certain je ne sais quoi about you, because there isn't.

[BlackButterfly]

Originally Posted by xxkissxmexgoodbye

lets wait for all the OMG WHY IS A CHRISTIAN ON GOTHIC.NET??? *taps foot awaiting comments*

(looks like somebody's gonna be tapping their foot until the cows come home...)

Hasn't anyone told you, or do you actually read that is posted in these forums little girl... that

Goth has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION?!?!?

N - O - T - H - I - freakin' - N - G!!

It's a SUBCULTURE!! Music, art, literature, fashion... other aspects too, but

Religion is an aspect left [bold]WIDE THE FUCK OPEN!!![/bold]

You are another one of the legions who claim to be "different". Yeah, you're different--so is everybody else... the all singing, all dancing crap of the world. So get over yourself already... damn.