This one actually IS for the Christians.

[Mir]

Same old shit, different day.

[Despanan]

Yet another day in your fractured Psyche.

Don't you ever get tired of talking to yourself?

[KontanKarite]

Nigga, why don't you say something?

[Fruitbat]

Ah you guys are hiliarious. Yeah call me whatever you like - it ain't like I haven't heard it before.

[Alan]

You haven't answered me. Where the fuck did I use long words?

[KontanKarite]

@ Alan: Dude, it was any of the words that had up to three letters or more.

[Despanan]

Fruitbat's not going to answer us in any meaningful sense. I highly doubt LBDSM or Corpsey (1 or 2) or anyone else will either. We've pretty much smashed any and all rational arguments. They're really just left with straw-men and fallacious dismissals.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

There's no point in arguing. Refer to dead horse image above.

[KontanKarite]

Fruitbat, you're right. There's no point in arguing now. Desp and I have won.

[Saya]

I lose internet for two days and the place falls to an orgy.

[Despanan]

Yeah, sorry. I tend to do that when you aren't around.

[Saya]

...Thats what everyone says

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

There's no point in arguing.

It's so easy for you to tell me which words you found long.
It's also so easy to apologize for saying that criticizing one's bullshit inconsistent beliefs is the same as fucking genocide


It's not that 'there's no point in arguing.'
It's that you're too proud to admit you were wrong.

[Despanan]

Ya know, I realy WOULD like to have this answered:

Originally Posted by Alan

Tell me one sole legitimate reason for me to appreciate religiously fueled good deeds? Show me one sole example of a good deed that made better precisely by its religiosity?

I don't think Alan going to get an answer, mind you. I'd just like to point out that that's a damn good question.

Jillian gets a gold Star.

[Catch]

Well, it is odd how Christ's death in association to removing everyone's sin through baptism seems a lot like a blood ritual to perform a magical cleansing cerimony.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Also, I never said or even want to destroy people or physically hurt people because they're superstitious. Though I guess I am hurting some egos and some pride. I'm not being self-righteous, actually. I'm simply saying that because I'm an atheist, I'm acknowledging the superiority of my stance when it comes to religion. It states a negative and every other belief that one may hold is the one with the burden of proof, not me. The reason this is so and why it seems like I'm being self-righteous is because I CAN'T in good conscience say that it's inherently okay to be a theist. That would be me admitting that there is something possibly wrong with my lack of belief in the supernatural. At the least, I think people who are religious have a minor character flaw. It's not something worth killing or hurting people over. But you can't expect me to give their beliefs a courtesy or a level of respect it doesn't deserve.

This.
It makes me think of all the Christians who try to convert people because their beliefs are wrong and/or inferior, and are perceived to be a threat. Trying to browbeat people by calling them stupid and generally being incendiary (to use Kontan's term) will not get you very far, if anywhere. Reasonable discussion, rather than contempt, will get you a much broader audience.
Think of it as planting a seed of doubt in soil you haven`t salted or otherwise abused.

I am not arguing that religious charity is better than secular charity. I am arguing that they both have the potential to be good, and they both have the potential for flaws.
I *am* arguing that going to a place with a bunch of other people every week where they announce charitable opportunites makes people more likely to do it because it's convenient.
I know that you guys have done a whole bunch of charity work, and I commend you on that - I really do, and wish I had the energy to do more for my fellow humans. It's just that a lot of people (like me) are lazy bums and don't really go hunting for such things, and if the opportunity to do charity work is presented to such lazy bums, more of them are more likely to go out and do it. Not all, but more.

Alan - Nothing makes religious goodness better than human goodness.

[Alan]

So you admit that religion is actually indefensible?


Also

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

It makes me think of all the Christians who try to convert people because their beliefs are wrong and/or inferior, and are perceived to be a threat. Trying to browbeat people by calling them stupid and generally being incendiary (to use Kontan's term) will not get you very far, if anywhere.

Guide me through this. First you negatively compare Kontan to religious zealots trying to convert others... and then... you tell him that he's not using methods that will convert anyone?
So basically.... he's not proselytizing after all then, or how does this logic work?

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

This.
It makes me think of all the Christians who try to convert people because their beliefs are wrong and/or inferior, and are perceived to be a threat. Trying to browbeat people by calling them stupid and generally being incendiary (to use Kontan's term) will not get you very far, if anywhere. Reasonable discussion, rather than contempt, will get you a much broader audience.
Think of it as planting a seed of doubt in soil you haven`t salted or otherwise abused.

I am not arguing that religious charity is better than secular charity. I am arguing that they both have the potential to be good, and they both have the potential for flaws.
I *am* arguing that going to a place with a bunch of other people every week where they announce charitable opportunites makes people more likely to do it because it's convenient.
I know that you guys have done a whole bunch of charity work, and I commend you on that - I really do, and wish I had the energy to do more for my fellow humans. It's just that a lot of people (like me) are lazy bums and don't really go hunting for such things, and if the opportunity to do charity work is presented to such lazy bums, more of them are more likely to go out and do it. Not all, but more.

Alan - Nothing makes religious goodness better than human goodness.

You know what... I'm beyond talking to you. If you said this to my face, I'd spit in your eye and you'd deserve it for saying such stupid shit.

What I'm doing is not EVEN the same fucking thing. You take the language out of context and try to put a spin on it, saying that an action that's nearly identical is indeed the same action because the context itself is meaningless. Well mother FUCK you. You really are stupid.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

Alan - Nothing makes religious goodness better than human goodness.

Then you admit that religion is pretty much pointless because human goodness would be there with or without it. So WHY IN FUCK would you ever consider religious goodness to ever be okay or even the same thing? Are you superstitious? Are you spiritual or religious? If not, then you're on the wrong side, toots.

But I get it. You don't care about what I'm actually saying, you're just butthurt because I'm also being a dick and picking on people while I prove point after point. Fuck me being right, KK is being a dick about it, so we have to keep railing against him even though we know he's right.

Do you realize how insanely stupid your position actually is if the only reason you're challenging me is because you don't like the way I'm delivering my points?

Jesus fucking Christ. Going by your logic, we should teach creationism right next to evolution in science classes and let the kids decide which one is right.

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Originally Posted by Alan

So you admit that religion is actually indefensible?


Also

Guide me through this. First you negatively compare Kontan to religious zealots trying to convert others... and then... you tell him that he's not using methods that will convert anyone?
So basically.... he's not proselytizing after all then, or how does this logic work?

I'm not saying religion is indefensible, as long as people don't harm others with it. Bigotry IS indefensible, reprehensible and problematic.
I don't do religion, but I don't begrudge other people their religious beliefs. I can live with other people believing in God, as long as they don't push it on other people or use it as a reason to hurt others.

I'm saying Kontan is trying to proselytize, but is using methods that cause people to generally say "Fuck you" and stomp off.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

I'm not saying religion is indefensible, as long as people don't harm others with it. Bigotry IS indefensible, reprehensible and problematic.
I don't do religion, but I don't begrudge other people their religious beliefs. I can live with other people believing in God, as long as they don't push it on other people or use it as a reason to hurt others.

I'm saying Kontan is trying to proselytize, but is using methods that cause people to generally say "Fuck you" and stomp off.

Fuck you....

[BobDole]

I believe in God.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by LaBelleDameSansMerci

I'm not saying religion is indefensible, as long as people don't harm others with it.

Jesus fucking christ.

Look. The word indefensible has an actual definition. It means it cannot be justified. That it simply cannot be defended as being valid.
If it is true that there's no instance of religious good being better than simple human good, then it is fucking indefensible. There's no justification for religion being the guiding factor of your ethics. It's quite simple.

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by BobDole

I believe in God.

Fuck you Bob. Go lose another election or film another Viagra commercial.

Originally Posted by LaBelledamnsansintelligence

I'm not saying religion is indefensible, as long as people don't harm others with it. Bigotry IS indefensible, reprehensible and problematic.
I don't do religion, but I don't begrudge other people their religious beliefs. I can live with other people believing in God, as long as they don't push it on other people or use it as a reason to hurt others.

I'm saying Kontan is trying to proselytize, but is using methods that cause people to generally say "Fuck you" and stomp off.

You're using arguments which have already been refuted in this thread.

We've already discussed why it's not correct to refrain from criticizing religion out of politeness, and why it's NOT okay for someone to be religious even if they're not a dick about it.

You really have no case, so all you're doing now is attempting character assassination on Kontan because he's being inflammatory.

Stop it.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Then you admit that religion is pretty much pointless because human goodness would be there with or without it. So WHY IN FUCK would you ever consider religious goodness to ever be okay or even the same thing? Are you superstitious? Are you spiritual or religious? If not, then you're on the wrong side, toots.

That assumes the sole purpose of religion is to make immoral people moral.