Satanists kill and eat goth teenagers

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Something that I've noticed is that many people--more than I'd prefer--don't do something as simple and "almost obligatory" as what JCC said. So, I truly was happy to hear it.

All right, then, you're just one of maybe five people in the world who would react in that way. Okay.

No. I didn't say it was irrelevant to my point. It was an oblique fact, but it's one with which I agree, never the less.

Explain how it was relevant to your point, please?

Just like you've got a very distinct opinion concerning from where my attitude proceeds? Impressions are all we have in an online setting, unless we ask to learn more.

No, I don't know from where your attitude proceeds, though, as time goes on, ecstasy emerges as my favored hypothesis.

I never said anything about him doing anything in order to feel validated. I perceived the possibility of JCC saying "yes," because there's a 50/50 chance in the asking of a yes or no question. I expected him to say "yes" or "no," but spiced with "and, this is why." Also, your last comment in that paragraph insinuates the idea that I don't think I could ever have a weakness in an argument. I believe I've always made it clear to you and many others that I am not infallible. When someone shows me that I'm incorrect, I accept that correction, make amends (if necessary,) and am grateful to've learned something from the situation.

You took my insinuation incorrectly, I meant to imply that the main objective of my question wasn't to elicit a response for my own benefit, but rather to direct attention to a flaw in your reasoning, just as I believe your question was intended less to secure a 'yes' or 'no' answer from JCC and more to attack his opinion.

Inflammatory remarks. What a surprise. Backhanded sarcasm. -yawn-

A pretense of being above my inflammatory remarks. What a surprise. An word or phrase denoting action framed by hyphens. -puts gun in mouth-.

Weren't you just lecturing me about making critical, unfounded accusations?

I'm pretty sure I have reasonable grounds to assert that your theories regarding what I think are dumb.

Ah, so you subscribe to JCC's preferred method of relaying your opinions? Or, does he subscribe to yours?

Are you asking who wears the pants in my relationship with JCC? It's me.

Either way, I'm still hoping to gain some enlightenment on it. Would you care to explain why your way is better than mine?

Sure. My way amuses me.

Anyway, I stand by my initial allegation, but I won't struggle to move you to concede the point. People will make their own judgments.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

Uhhh.... I'm going to stop posting on this topic now....

Did you ever post?

[I Am Great.]

Satanists don't kill and eat goth teenagers, rappers do! Sound of the police, WOO WOO WOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chelseagirl]

LOL! And now, back to the original topic:

A Satanist gang has been accused of murdering four Russian teenagers, stabbing each of them 666 times before cooking their body parts on a bonfire and eating them.

The killers carried out the brutal killings in June, but the victims' remains were not found until last month, Russian police have revealed.

Each victim was stabbed 666 times — the biblical sign of the devil — before some of their limbs, breasts and genitals were cut off and their hearts ripped out as part of a ritual, according to UK's Daily Mail newspaper.

The remains of Anya Gorokhova, Olga Pukhova, Varya Kuzmina and Andrei Sorokin — aged between 16 and 17 and described by police as "Goths" — were found in a pit branded with satanic symbols and an upside down cross in the Yaroslavl region of Russia, 255km north-east of Moscow.

Kuzmina reportedly called a friend from the apartment of the gang’s leader, Nikolai Ogolobyak, shortly before her murder and said "I don't like it here, something's not right".

Police believe the killings were executed in two separate rituals on consecutive days and all the victims and killers knew each other.

Eight worshippers have been arrested over the murders, but have since claimed Satan would help them "avoid responsibility".

"I made lots of sacrifices to him," one member of the gang was quoted by the Mail as saying.

Another member claimed he turned to Satan after his prayers to God were not answered.

"It didn’t bring me any money... I prayed to Satan, and things improved," he said.

Gothic sub-culture has come under scrutiny in Russia in recent months, with Russia’s parliament proposing amendments to better regulate Goth websites and prevent Gothic-dressers entering government buildings.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=631877

[chelseagirl]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ic-ritual.html

[chelseagirl]

FOUR teenagers were horrifically slain by Satanists — stabbed 666 times each and then EATEN.

The gang of Devil worshippers butchered their victims and roasted them on a bonfire before devouring their flesh.



Horror ... the upturned cross marks where the remains were found

Horrified cops found body parts dumped in a pit beside an upside-down cross, a symbol used in Satanic worship.


The victims all suffered 666 knife wounds — the number associated with the Beast, or Antichrist, and featured in horror films such as The Omen.


The pals, three girls and a boy aged 16 or 17, were all Goths.

They were lured one by one to a cottage and forced to get drunk before being butchered.


Hair from them was found in the embers of a fire the gang lit under a tree.



Suspects ... Ksenia Kuznetsova and Nikolai Ogolobyak

Police believe the teenagers were cooked in the flames before their flesh was devoured.

Their private parts had also been cut off in the sickening ritual in a rural area of Russia.


After police arrested eight suspected members of the ring, one boasted how they had previously dug up the grave of a newly-dead girl and eaten her heart.


Another said he did not expect to be punished, saying: “Satan will help me to avoid responsibility. I made lots of sacrifices to him.”


And a third said he had got fed up with God for not making him rich and that “things improved” after he started praying to the Devil.


The discovery in Yaroslavl, 300 miles from Moscow, sent a shudder across Russia — where Satanists are feared to have committed a string of mutilations and killings.



Number ... 666 is Devil's

The victims, who all disappeared in June, were named as Anya Gorokhova, Olga Pukhova, Varya Kuzmina and Andrei Sorokin.


The upside-down cross marking what was left of their bones and scalps had a small animal nailed to it.


Police began tracing the gang after finding out that all the victims had made phone calls to alleged leader Nikolai Ogolobyak.

Locals said they all knew Ogolobyak, whose grandmother revealed he had sung in the local church choir as a boy.


The rest of the cult were described by ex-teachers as having been of low intelligence and moody at school.


Three were named by police as Ksenia Kuznetsova, Alexander Voronov and Anton Makovkin.


The dad of victim Andrei said: “My son said he had Goths and Satanists among his friends.


“I wasn’t scared. I thought, ‘Well, let him spend his time sitting around a cemetery — there’s not much harm in that, is there?’"


Advertisement

Russia has seen a series of gruesome murders, rapes and desecrations linked to Satanic cults.


Moscow alone has 15 whose worship is thought to revolve around symbols such as 666, an upturned five-pointed star within a circle and the swastika.


Devil worshippers believe in putting themselves first and their core values include pride, indulgence, ambition and meeting sexual desires.


In Britain, about 400 people list their religion as Satanism. Followers meet at a “Grotto” for rituals with candles and swords run by witches and warlocks.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1692637.ece

[Tam Li Hua]

On thinking about it a little more, it's not just odd because they were killed, but also because they were eaten. I didn't realize any "Satanic" rituals included cannibalism..

[Wynneth]

Sorry, everyone, to keep this going. Trust me, if I could take it to PMs, I would. Not an option for me, as of yet. So, please, just scroll past this, if you're sick of reading it. God knows I am.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

All right, then, you're just one of maybe five people in the world who would react in that way. Okay.

Thank you for taking me at my word.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Explain how it was relevant to your point, please?

As I said, it was an oblique fact that was relevant to my point only in that I don't disagree that opinions should be challenged. If someone were to misunderstand my intent (nothing new, obviously), they might've thought I was against challenging opinions, period. That wasn't my point, so it was relevant to my point in that it was a clarification of my point.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

No, I don't know from where your attitude proceeds, though, as time goes on, ecstasy emerges as my favored hypothesis.

I don't walk around in a constant state of bliss, no. But, it's good that I'm viewed in that way, I suppose.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

You took my insinuation incorrectly, I meant to imply that the main objective of my question wasn't to elicit a response for my own benefit, but rather to direct attention to a flaw in your reasoning, just as I believe your question was intended less to secure a 'yes' or 'no' answer from JCC and more to attack his opinion.

Actually, my question to JCC was meant to have him think on the issue at hand. You, yourself, have accused me of many ridiculous things (through jumping to conclusions, etc.) in many different threads, here. Perhaps your intent during those accusations was to "direct attention to a flaw in [my] reasoning" or something along those lines. It sure didn't feel that way, but please, let me know if I'm right.

Did you ever consider the fact that the point behind the questions I asked were meant, partially, to make JCC really think about why he does what he does and the way he does it? Yes, it was to educate myself on what thoughts go through the heads of (at least one of the) people who approach the situation in that manner. But, it was also a milder, somewhat indirect way of encouraging JCC to examine his methods and, perhaps, better understand it.

Perhaps you take issue with the mild, indirect nature of it, seeing it as passive aggressive or something? I don't know. I can't begin to guess. I only know that, whatever comes out of my proverbial mouth, you take it in the worst way possible. Especially when I attempt to address your issues and clarify matters.

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I'm pretty sure I have reasonable grounds to assert that your theories regarding what I think are dumb.

That's all well and fine, yes. But, since it strays into almost everything else that I say, well...

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Are you asking who wears the pants in my relationship with JCC? It's me.

Once again, you assumed the worst. So, there's no point in me attempting to explain it further. I'm beginning to feel that clarifying myself to you is an exercise in futility. You're so negative when it comes to me that, no matter what I say, you find something wrong with it--whether or not your issues are grounded in fact or based upon incorrect inferences.

Maybe, from this point on, you and I can openly acknowledge and embrace the fact that we're simply not going to agree, nor even coexist happily. I'd settle for an all-around neutrality, but I'd like to move past the seeming-enmity phase.

[Saya]

Tam, there are many different types of Satanism, and with eight members in this sect it makes it a cult, with its own rituals. I'll have to double check but I do believe the average cult has a half life of six months. And its pretty damn rare to see them perform ritual killings, sure a lot of people kill someone and then will blame the devil, but a group performing a ritual killing isn't common at all.

Interestingly, there's a large number of people who believe that there are plenty of murderous Satanic cults around. I remember in the Laci Peterson case her husband's defense lawyer tried to convince the jury that Laci was kidnapped and murdered by a Satanic cult.

[MegearaErotica]

Originally Posted by Joker_in_the_Pack

Did you ever post?

Yeah, I did. Long before it became an analyzation (did I spell this right?) of everyone else's comments...

[$haDe]

What about those who died ?

Nobody going to talk about them ?

Oh..crap poor guys

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by $haDe

What about those who died ?

Nobody going to talk about them ?

Oh..crap poor guys

If I was them I'd be more upset about being killed and eaten, than being ignored by an online group of goths.

[Tam Li Hua]

$hade: You're right; we need to get this train back on its track.

I feel bad for those teens, but I hope that the Russian government doesn't go overboard about this; one of the articles posted said that the government was thinking about banning goths from certain public establishments. I'm not sure if that's really the best way to resolve this issue, though. x_x;;;

If these ritualistic killings are actually becoming an epidemic, though, then perhaps it would be worth it to step up the security or something. [I wonder, does anyone know if the killers gave a manifesto of beliefs of any kind..?]

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by LiUsAiDh

If I was them I'd be more upset about being killed and eaten, than being ignored by an online group of goths.

If I were them [and if such things are possible], I'd come back from the dead and tell the killers that Satan doesn't even know who they are, and that he finds the idea of cannibalism horrific and terrible.

But, that's just me.

[$haDe]

Yeah,It's true

Idea is something never can't be prove to be right or wrong but one thing it's exactly prove is that idea will always be idea as long as it doesn't cross over others,if not it's threatening.

^ from my opinion

In this case, It's a murder, criminal act.

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

If I were them [and if such things are possible], I'd come back from the dead and tell the killers that Satan doesn't even know who they are, and that he finds the idea of cannibalism horrific and terrible.

But, that's just me.

Haha, nah. Come back and say:

'I AM Satan!!'

in a booming voice!

[Saya]

I find it insane though that one of them convinced seven people to not only kill, but then eat the victims. As I once heard a comedian say, "I can't even convince my friends to help me move." How dumb and sheep like are they?

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by Saya

I find it insane though that one of them convinced seven people to not only kill, but then eat the victims. As I once heard a comedian say, "I can't even convince my friends to help me move." How dumb and sheep like are they?

I suppose they'd gain their trust first, and do it gradually. Appeal to them, by exploiting their weaknesses, making them feel loved. Then slowly get more sinister. Also, they'd pick on very vulnerable people.

[MegearaErotica]

Originally Posted by Saya

I find it insane though that one of them convinced seven people to not only kill, but then eat the victims. As I once heard a comedian say, "I can't even convince my friends to help me move." How dumb and sheep like are they?

Good friends help you move. Better friends help you move bodies.

[LiUsAiDh]

Originally Posted by MegearaErotica

Good friends help you move. Better friends help you move bodies.

By that logic, I have no friends.

[chelseagirl]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

I wonder, does anyone know if the killers gave a manifesto of beliefs of any kind..?

The newest article says:

They had apparently been singled out by the Satanists because they were fans of "Goth" music and fashion. One of the girls was said to have had a document titled "101 rules of Satanism" among her belongings.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4767971.ece

[MegearaErotica]

Originally Posted by LiUsAiDh

By that logic, I have no friends.

I only have 2 friends by that definition, but one of them said they'd be willing to move a body with me... if it was someone wearing pink.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Wynneth

Sorry, everyone, to keep this going. Trust me, if I could take it to PMs, I would. Not an option for me, as of yet. So, please, just scroll past this, if you're sick of reading it. God knows I am.

Cry some more. I'm sick of reading -beam-, -laugh-, -smile-, -grin-, and all permutations thereof, are you going to apologize to me every time you make a post from now on?

As I said, it was an oblique fact that was relevant to my point only in that I don't disagree that opinions should be challenged. If someone were to misunderstand my intent (nothing new, obviously), they might've thought I was against challenging opinions, period. That wasn't my point, so it was relevant to my point in that it was a clarification of my point.

So if you're arguing that "George Bush is a bad president", and someone counters your assertion with "But T-Rex was a carnivore", that statement is relevant to your point as long as you say "I agree, but that's not my point"? Or in your case, "EXCELLENT! Your second grade class covered dinosaurs!! I'm quite pleased"?

I don't walk around in a constant state of bliss, no. But, it's good that I'm viewed in that way, I suppose.

I don't know why you would imagine that perception to be good-- someone who's perpetually happy is generally viewed by others to be boring at best and creepy at worse. Haven't you ever heard that life without sadness or pain is like food without taste?

Actually, my question to JCC was meant to have him think on the issue at hand. You, yourself, have accused me of many ridiculous things (through jumping to conclusions, etc.) in many different threads, here. Perhaps your intent during those accusations was to "direct attention to a flaw in [my] reasoning" or something along those lines. It sure didn't feel that way, but please, let me know if I'm right.

Did you ever consider the fact that the point behind the questions I asked were meant, partially, to make JCC really think about why he does what he does and the way he does it? Yes, it was to educate myself on what thoughts go through the heads of (at least one of the) people who approach the situation in that manner. But, it was also a milder, somewhat indirect way of encouraging JCC to examine his methods and, perhaps, better understand it.

I think we're making some progress now. You're beginning to concede that there's some truth in what I'm saying, we're just not using the same language. Forcing JCC to 'examine his methods' through you question is equivalent to directing attention to a flaw in his reasoning, of doing which you originally claimed to have no intention, maintaining that you were really just being purely inquisitive.

Perhaps you take issue with the mild, indirect nature of it, seeing it as passive aggressive or something? I don't know. I can't begin to guess. I only know that, whatever comes out of my proverbial mouth, you take it in the worst way possible. Especially when I attempt to address your issues and clarify matters.

I don't know if you realize how you sound. Let me try dig up some examples.
In the Rant Thread, LetheanBlacklight made a rather stupid comment to you. You asked who he was (by which question I don't know what you meant, but that's irrelevant), and he replied "I am no one, I am everyone, I am god." In response to this, you said "Ah, that clears it up nicely, thank you," which, though condescending and sarcastic, is a completely legitimate response in that context. That kind of thing doesn't deserve a reply that isn't condescending or sarcastic. However, if you turned around and said "What do you mean? I'm always nice, I was really happy that LetheanBlacklight explained to me that he was god", I would find that rather suspect.
For a more abstract explanation, consider someone who, when snapped at, replies to their aggressor "Aww, whassamatter? Did you miss your nappy-poo? Wet your diapey?", then claims "I was really worried that he/she missed his/her nappy poo or wet his/her diapey". That you don't mean to sound this way is possible, but you DO, to me and to more than one other member here if I'm not mistaken.

That's all well and fine, yes. But, since it strays into almost everything else that I say, well...

Your data might be skewed because I only really address you when you make a dumb inference about me or something peripherally related to me. Outside of that I don't really find the things you say to be interesting.

Once again, you assumed the worst. So, there's no point in me attempting to explain it further. I'm beginning to feel that clarifying myself to you is an exercise in futility. You're so negative when it comes to me that, no matter what I say, you find something wrong with it--whether or not your issues are grounded in fact or based upon incorrect inferences.

I was joking. As I said before, I really don't think either method of conveying thoughts is superiorly suited to that purpose, though I definitely enjoy myself more when I speak plainly with others who speak plainly, rather than suffer through the tedium of affected niceties and sanitized jokes.

Maybe, from this point on, you and I can openly acknowledge and embrace the fact that we're simply not going to agree, nor even coexist happily. I'd settle for an all-around neutrality, but I'd like to move past the seeming-enmity phase.

You've given up on the possibility of us ever agreeing on anything? You're supposed to be the optimist. Surely we both like KFC.

[Wynneth]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

[*Insert ranting, self-masturbatory diatribe, blah, blah, blah*]

I'm just plain sick of you. You've not said a word about me that's been even close to right, except that I try to help people too much and that I'm too nice. Well, here's your notice: I'm not going to be nice to you, anymore. And, what that means is, I'm not going to satisfy your itch for debate, anymore. You can view this as me "giving up" or whatever else you might need to help you sleep cozily at night, but I know the truth. Many others can read what I've said and judge for themselves. You and your sycophants can hate me and think I'm ridiculous all you like. 'Cause, in the end, what I've always said still holds true: You. Don't. Matter.

P.S.
KFC is disgusting.

[Mir]

Ugh, goths taste disgusting.