Latest from the Gaza Strip - Family Killed in Raid

[Apathy's_Child]

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli tank shell slammed into a tiny Gaza Strip home Monday during a skirmish with gunmen, killing a Palestinian woman and four of her children as they prepared to sit down for breakfast, Palestinian officials and relatives said.

But the Israeli military said explosives carried by militants were detonated in a clash with the Israelis and "and uninvolved civilians were hit." Palestinians said the militants were at least 400 yards from the stricken house.

The new violence threatened to hobble Egyptian attempts to bring a cease-fire to the area.

Palestinian medics identified the dead children as sisters Rudina and Hana Abu Meatak, ages 6 and 3, and their brothers, 4-year-old Saleh and 15-month-old Mousad. Their mother, Miyasar, was in her late 30s. Her two older children were critically wounded, the officials said.

"What a black day. They killed my family," said Ahmad Abu Meatak, father of the children, wailing outside the local hospital where the bodies were taken.

The force of the blast scattered clothes and other household items outside the two-room home. A single white children's shoe, flattened by the explosion, lay on the ground near a blue pair of shorts covered in sand. A green baby chair also sat outside, one end bent by the force of the blast.

A large crowd of people gathered outside, milling about as rescue crews cleaned up the debris and washed away bloodstains in the sand.

Beit Hanoun farmer Omar Abdel Nabi said he was driving his tractor in a nearby field when two or three explosions shook the ground.

"People were screaming that a tank shell landed in the next street," he told The Associated Press. "I carried two people covered in blood out of a house."

The children were taken to a local hospital morgue, where family members stood over the bodies, wailing and flailing their hands in the air.

"I feel sick. I want to throw up the blood that is boiling inside me, into the face of the occupation," said Ibrahim Abu Meatak, the children's 24-year-old half-brother. He said Miyasar Meatak was fixing breakfast for the family when the tank shell struck.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak put the blame on Gaza's Islamic militant Hamas rulers, and said Israel would continue to operate in the volatile territory.

"We see Hamas as responsible for everything that happens there, for all injuries," Barak said during a tour of an Israeli weapons factory. "Hamas is also responsible, by operating within the civilian population, for some of the civilian casualties."

At least 10 rockets and dozens of mortar shells were fired at Israel from on Monday, the Israeli military said. Palestinian militants frequently launch rockets from Beit Hanoun.

In recent weeks, militants have also tried to infiltrate into Israel at least four times.

Monday's violence threatened to derail Egyptian efforts to wring a truce from Israel and Gaza militants.

Ismail Haniyeh, prime minister of Hamas-ruled Gaza, accused Israel of striving "to ruin any regional and international efforts to end the siege and halt aggression."

Last week, Hamas said it would accept a six-month cease-fire with Israel, provided Israel ends the economic blockade it imposed on Gaza after the Hamas takeover. The blockade has caused shortages of fuel, cement and other basic items in the impoverished territory.

Israel has dismissed the truce offer, saying Hamas would use the lull to rearm after sustaining heavy losses in recent fighting. At the same time, Israel says it would hold its fire if Hamas and smaller Gaza militant groups halt their attacks.

While battling Hamas in Gaza, Israel has been conducting peace talks with the rival Palestinian government of President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank.

The sides hope to reach a peace deal by the end of the year, though Abbas acknowledged after a trip to the White House last week that he was growing pessimistic about the lack of progress in negotiations.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j...18zEgD90AVO1O0

This is some fucked up shit. Sadly, it's a hazard of daily life if you're living in Gaza, and shows that you don't even have to step out of your front door in order for your life to be put at risk.

I hear the Israeli Prime Minister is "deeply saddened" by this event. Not saddened enough to return the Palestinians' land (and maybe quit using ILLEGAL cluster bombs on them), I'm sure, but I'll bet he lost like an hour's sleep over it.

This world makes me incredibly sad.

[AngelikDemonik]

Surprise, surprise...

By the way, you can thank the US for supplying weapons to Israel to use on a defenseless country.

[Apathy's_Child]

Yeah, we hate terrorism... unless they're freedom fighters!

Fuck the Israeli and US governments - proof that humanity is inherently evil and utterly fucked.

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Yeah, we hate terrorism... unless they're freedom fighters!

Fuck the Israeli and US governments - proof that humanity is inherently evil and utterly fucked.

Thank you.

The ONE Israeli prime minister that was going to sign a "peace treaty" was killed by an Israeli student before he could sign it. Why? "Because they were going to give Arabs our land." and "We need to be cold blooded."

There are few political things I am passionate about, but the whole Israel and Palestine is definately one of them. There are A LOT of Pro-Palestine protests in my area (I've attened two of them), and back when Sharon was alive, I remember people chanting "Sharon and Hitler are the same, the only difference is the name."

[Apathy's_Child]

Me too, AngelikDemonic. The fact that a race of people who experienced what the Jews did in the Holocaust are now involved in ethnic cleansing astonishes and disgusts me (not to mention a certain threat to "unleash a holocaust" in Gaza - literally unbelievable). And the fact that my country is backing them makes me deeply ashamed. (Well, that, among other things......)

[insolitus_noir]

I go through periods when I follow what's going on in Israel/Palestine in detail, and periods like the one I'm currently in where I can't quite stand the horror of it all and focus on other depressing items in the news. Alternet has plenty of stories likes this.

What is particularly frustrating is how the mainstream media doesn't foster meaningful discussion about the issue. For example, there's no tangible acknowledgment of the fact that whole thing is the result of creating a new country in an inhabited area. Also, Middle Eastern countries like Jordan put forth a land-for-peace deal, in which they'd recognize Israel in exchange for a return to pre-1967 borders, but this was underreported. Not only do we have a US government supplying weapons to Israel, as AngelikDemonik points out, but we have a national discourse shaped by a compliant and pro-establishment media that excuses blatant injustice and sabotages efforts for Israel and Palestine to reach an agreement. In other words, the guvmint is bad; so is the media.

[AngelikDemonik]

I am very ashamed of what the US is doing, as well, Apathy's Child. What pisses me off even more is the that fact that the taxes I pay, are contriubting to the weapons that are going to Israel. I seen a picture of Israeli children signing their names on a missle =(

And like insolitus_noir, I'm in complete agreence with you. Government and media are bad.

Few people I've spoke to on this issue actually know that Palestine was inhibited for thousands of years before it was decided to give the Jewish peoples their own land...that land.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

I am very ashamed of what the US is doing, as well, Apathy's Child. What pisses me off even more is the that fact that the taxes I pay, are contriubting to the weapons that are going to Israel. I seen a picture of Israeli children signing their names on a missle =(

And like insolitus_noir, I'm in complete agreence with you. Government and media are bad.

Few people I've spoke to on this issue actually know that Palestine was inhibited for thousands of years before it was decided to give the Jewish peoples their own land...that land.

Two words: Holocaust guilt.

I can't think of any other reason they would not only get away with it, but gain the approval of so much of the First World. Shame those people are now doing something similar to what was done to them.

The American media are nothing more than government functionaries. Read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky & Herman if you're interested in the finer points of how it all works.

[insolitus_noir]

It's good of you bring up Manufacturing Consent, Apathy's Child. I know it well. I've been thinking a lot about it these days in light of revelations that the Pentagon operated a program to systematically embed analysts promoting the pro-war party line. (I wanted to post a link, but apparently I'm not allowed to on account of being a new member. Bleh)

Holocaust guilt is certainly a possible explanation...one reason why Israel can't be criticized without charges of antisemitism getting thrown around. If people can't have a poison-free conversation, diplomacy can't work, and solutions can't be forged. Then again, war is the health of the State, right?

[Apathy's_Child]

Manufacturing Consent is one of those books I genuinely believe everyone should read, if only to gain an idea of how such a crucial part of US culture works. Glad to have a fellow Chomsky fan around! XD

[ZombiesNTea]

Obama, McCain, and Hillary are all stanchly pro-Israeli policy. Yet another reason I'm voting Ralph Nader.

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Two words: Holocaust guilt.

I can't think of any other reason they would not only get away with it, but gain the approval of so much of the First World. Shame those people are now doing something similar to what was done to them.

The American media are nothing more than government functionaries. Read Manufacturing Consent by Chomsky & Herman if you're interested in the finer points of how it all works.

That is exactly why they were given that land. Don't get me wrong, what happened to the Jews was horrible, and I don't blame the Jews for what is happening over there now. But, like what you said, they're (Israeli government) doing things to people that was done to their own people.

As soon as school settles down for me for the summer, I will definately check that book out. My ex was VERY big into Chomsky.

[KontanKarite]

I have to brush up on my history. Right now, I'm seeing something that looks, essentially like an accident that occured in a war between two nations. Fucked up though. I feel bad for the father in the story.

Of course, my stance on war is that it's just wrong regardless.

[insolitus_noir]

AngelikDemonik, if you want a sneak peek, here's good excerpt from the book. It's a relatively quick read hitting the major points. Since I'm still not allow to post links, dagnabit, I've replaced the dots and slashes with words in square brackets:

thirdworldtraveler[dot]com[slash]Herman%20 [slash]Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html

Kontan: I agree with you completely about war. It amazes that in this day and age, when we can understand the horrors of war better than previous general, there are still people who can cheerlead for war without even bothering to be suspicious of government motives.

[AngelikDemonik]

Originally Posted by insolitus_noir

AngelikDemonik, if you want a sneak peek, here's good excerpt from the book. It's a relatively quick read hitting the major points. Since I'm still not allow to post links, dagnabit, I've replaced the dots and slashes with words in square brackets:

thirdworldtraveler[dot]com[slash]Herman%20 [slash]Manufac_Consent_Prop_Model.html

Kontan: I agree with you completely about war. It amazes that in this day and age, when we can understand the horrors of war better than previous general, there are still people who can cheerlead for war without even bothering to be suspicious of government motives.

Thank you! *delicately tries to enter in url*

[LaBelleDameSansMerci]

Here's the link in clickable format: http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman...rop_Model.html
(why aren't new people allowed to post links, anyway?)

I hate that people can't say anything against Israel without being accused of antisemitism. It's completely unfair. It lets their government get away with... well... murder.

*goes off to read excerpt of Manufacturing Consent*

[ionic_angel]

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

Few people I've spoke to on this issue actually know that Palestine was inhibited for thousands of years before it was decided to give the Jewish peoples their own land...that land.

And for thousands of years before that, it was occupied by the jews, until a certain latin speaking country decided that they were being too much trouble.

If we're going to use original occupation as grounds for who deserves the land, then I suggest you get off your high horse and get back to whatever country you happen to possess the greatest genetic heritage of.

Not that I'm actually suggesting you do that, but you get the point.

As for the whole "return to 1967 borders" thing, if I recall correctly, that would have only had a few of the Arab states recognizing Israel...besides, it's not exactly like Israel can trust its neighbors to not attack it.

There is no easy solution to the problems of the middle east. There are far too many radicals on either side for there to be a peaceful solution in the foreseeable future. The violence will continue, and all that can be said is basically "I'm glad it's not me there".

[Apathy's_Child]

Actually, semitic peoples began to enter around 2, 000 BC. They may have a long history in the area but they certainly weren't the original occupiers.

As for your words to AngelikDemonic - there is a HUGE difference between being an immigrant, and systematically removing a race of indigenous people because actually, you quite fancy having your own state. With our history, we damned sure oughta have learned that.

[GothicChristian]

My dearest darling children,
Those of you who believe that Israel was formed because of "holocaust guilt" has never read the proper books or Book shall I say.2000 plus years ago it was predicted that the Jews would have their own country again and as for war with the Arabs that has been going on since Sarah since Abraham into the handmaidens tent to father a child because they didn't have the patience to or the faith to believe.So both sons were granted a race and there will never be peace between the two and that's how it shall be till the end of time,except of course for about three and a half years of what's suppose to be a peace treaty.When that happens we can all pretty much say see ya later to this world as we know it.Oh and while we are on the subject Persia is suppose to rise again and I'll be danged if I don't see her head arising out of the dust.
Believe this my friends the radicals of thew middle east want us dead just as bad as Isreal.Take their words for it.9/11 was just a warning.

[ThreeEyesOni]

Originally Posted by ionic_angel

If we're going to use original occupation as grounds for who deserves the land, then I suggest you get off your high horse and get back to whatever country you happen to possess the greatest genetic heritage of.

You have no idea how much I wish that was even possible. -_- Ironically, Israel is one of the few countries that will (quite easily in fact) accept foreign nationals on grounds similar to what you just said.

Unfortunately it's only rather recently that public opinion on the matter of "kick out the natives so we can have the land" has been unacceptable in the majority of the world. Look at the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the colonial Americas, etc etc. Go back as many thousands of years and that's what you see. There comes a point where we have to all accept that every portion of the planet was previously inhabited by some other section of the species and that every cultural group has done this in the past. Then we all just have to figure out some way to bloody live together and acknowledge that there's a finite amount of land for us to share.

PS: Anyone that starts with "My dearest darling children" and the continues with vaugely prophetic ramblings devoid of proper use of punctuation (psssttt... you're supposed to put a space after punctuation) pretty much falls into my personal catagory of "bloody lunatic better not listened to".

[insolitus_noir]

It's hardly insignificant that major Arab states - the one who set the tone for the region - would be willing to recognize Israel in return for pre-1967 borders. The whole military threat stems from these contested borders. If that's settled and countries like Jordan, Syria, and Saudi Arabia formally recognize Israel, it seems reasonable to believe it would curtail threats to Israel's existence, especially since where these major players go, the smaller players would follow. As the Iraq war shows, conflicts only destabilize the region. I'll bet Middle Eastern states would rather be like the UAE and Dubai...livin' it large...then worrying about Israel.

Besides, with the US and most of the world watching and willing to intervene, the militarily weaker Arab states are not in a position to attack Israel directly, if that's what they even want. If attacking Israel were a strategically realistic option, they would have done so long ago. (Israel's attack on Lebanon would have been a convenient pretext.) But they were soundly beaten in the past, and that's partly why we see the use of asymmetrical warfare aka terrorist suicide bombings.

Edit: Oh, and thanks for posting a functional link, BelleDame. Much appreciated!

[ThreeEyesOni]

On that note, there really isn't any such thing as a "strategically realistic" option for direct invasion of one nation by another anymore. In this day and age it doesn't matter if two countries are relatively "evenly matched" in thier armies because all but the very weakest nations have armies capable of obliterating anythng in the vicinity of a full-out conflict. The conflict in Iraq would have gone much differently if several of thier largest armored cavalry units hadn't driven into the desert far enough to be able to ditch their vehicles unseen.

There's also the fact that while members of the various governments might be willing to form a truce, a good number of the conflicts that happen arn't involving 100% government forces on both sides. It's all really messed up, largely due to the fact that you're dealing with a region that by and large is about the absolute worst when it comes to letting bygones be bygones. Though since there's still a not-inconsiderable "north versus south" mentality in parts of the US, I can't really say anything too strongly on those matters. -_-

[AngelikDemonik]

ionic_angel

"If we're going to use original occupation as grounds for who deserves the land, then I suggest you get off your high horse and get back to whatever country you happen to possess the greatest genetic heritage of."



Then send me back to my family in Lebanon. Oh wait....Israel bombed the fuck out of Lebanon.


As for your words about the radicals. You're very right. I don't think that there will EVER be peace there. The hate is so deep-rooted and there will always be radicals who like to take things into their own hands.

[insolitus_noir]

Quite right, ThreeEyesOni. I think we're on the same page. Another factor is not simply that people bear grudges, but that the colonial creation of borders and countries lumped various tribal peoples together where before they were separate. But however much it's now unacceptable to "kick the natives out," I think we still see a very strong reluctance to accept responsibility for past mistakes/crimes/etc. A good example is Sept. 11. If a public figure dares to suggest that American foreign policy is fostering hatred of the US - enough to push people to terrorism - said figure is vilified as a *gasp* liberal and *double gasp* traitor. Anything that contradicts the view that the US government is anything other than a benign force in the world is silenced. Similarly, the entire history of the Middle East is glossed over because none of the Western powers truly want to own up to their role in creating today's mess.

AngelikDemonik: I hope your family wasn't hurt by the bombing. How are things in Lebanon now?

[CptSternn]

For anyone who is interested there are a few great documentaries that have been released in the past couple of years on this very subject which are very good.

The Killing Zone and The Iron Wall are the first two who come to mind. Both were produced by the BBC. In one, the actual reporter who is doing the documentary is killed by israelis ON CAMERA. He is a british citizen working for the BBC and is gunned down. The next day the crew go to the head of the military, who deny it happened, on camera.

They also cover the other AMERICANS and british citizens who have been murdered over the past few years, stories that are being censored in the US/UK media for fears that the average person might find out that the israelis have killed more Americans and british citizens than many Arabic nations have killed.