Forgive me, Gothic.net...

Drake Dun · 02-18-2009, 05:11 AM

...for I have started another thread on religion. Old habits come back with a vengence.

Early today I had a talk with my father about this that and the other thing, including, predictably, religion. He's a Mormon. Somewhere along the way we got to talking about details of Mormon religion, and I thought, what the heck... I'll do a little homework. Right now I am reading the Doctrine and Covenants, which is one of that religion's infallible texts filled with holy holy revelations, prophecies, blah blah blah (Smith predicted the Civil War, lol). Check this section out:

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/5

Now what strikes me about the content there is its marked similarity to bits and pieces, sometimes whole swaths, of the Qu'ran, in which I also got my feet wet recently. Both are very conscious of the fact that other people are going to know just how full of shit they are. Both spend a lot of time and energy cajoling, chastising, and most of all, threatening people pre-emptively. And it's no different with the Bible. If you doubt me, go read the fucking thing for a change.

It's funny how God is always hiding in the shadows, working in mysterious ways, and generally behaving like a shifty bastard, with all his many chosen wise men working the pyrotechnic smoke and mirrors end of the gig. So my question, as always, is - how can anyone fail to see through this stuff? Really, I would appreciate it enormously if one of the people here who always reflexively does the apologetics song and dance would just send me one private message telling me that yeah, they know it's all bullshit, but it's an important part of their social life, etc. I'm kind of tired living with the horrifying thought that human beings are this easy to gull and recruit for assorted arbitrary purposes, not a few of which are utterly nefarious.

Thank you for your time. Praise... whoever.

PortraitOfSanity · 02-18-2009, 05:13 AM

Mormonism is the genital wart on the flaccid penis of Christianity.

Drake Dun · 02-18-2009, 05:31 AM

And let me add one more thought. If you are writing in hackneyed King James English, which was already archaic in the 17th century, in the 19th or 20th centuries, because it has certain cheap assocations of gravity and profundity? Because you can't do better than to steal the fire of geriatric absurdisms? You fail.

Joseph Smith: FAIL
Aleister Crowely: FAIL

PortraitOfSanity · 02-18-2009, 05:34 AM

I actually never considered that when it comes to the Mormons. I always found that annoying about Crowley though. The Mormon Bible is written in really, really bad King James English though.

HumanePain · 02-18-2009, 05:40 AM

I have my personal reservations about Mormonism, that as much if not more than evangelical Christianity it seeks to grow social power and wealth, but to respond to the main point: the threats reveal that it is not of God in my opinion, because going back to Jesus for a moment, Jesus tried to help the poor, the sick, the downtrodden, He showed the desperate and the hopeless a way to find hope and personal power to transform one's life from self destructive ways, He wasn't a threating man, but a loving man.

There is some legitimacy in warning of the consequences of "sin", that drunkeness etc. will lead to "punishment"; "righteous" living protects one from painful consequences.

But for Smith to write God's threats without God's love behind them is ungodly. Personal salvation is a gift to those who need it, threats only hearkens back to the Dark Ages.

Scareebowfairy · 02-18-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanePain

I have my personal reservations about Mormonism, that as much if not more than evangelical Christianity it seeks to grow social power and wealth, but to respond to the main point: the threats reveal that it is not of God in my opinion, because going back to Jesus for a moment, Jesus tried to help the poor, the sick, the downtrodden, He showed the desperate and the hopeless a way to find hope and personal power to transform one's life from self destructive ways, He wasn't a threating man, but a loving man.

There is some legitimacy in warning of the consequences of "sin", that drunkeness etc. will lead to "punishment"; "righteous" living protects one from painful consequences.

But for Smith to write God's threats without God's love behind them is ungodly. Personal salvation is a gift to those who need it, threats only hearkens back to the Dark Ages.

Amen

messagetoshort

Necrophagist · 02-18-2009, 07:55 AM

God is never about love.

honeythorn · 02-18-2009, 09:33 AM

I've seen a video about "mormon jesus " that was so badly drawn and animated...like Gullivers Travels on crack. It was THE funniest video of 2008 for me.

Drake Dun · 02-18-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Jesus... wasn't a threating man, but a loving man.

We can't pretend to know what Jesus of Nazareth was really like, assuming the man even existed (which is not entirely clear). All we know is how he has been portrayed by a handful of obscure authors who never even met him. The way those authors portray him is as a threatening man and a loving man, or at least a man who both issued threats and professed love.

Actually, the fact that the Jesus of scripture is manifestly fallible, inconsistent, sometimes petty and vicious, etc., is the primary basis for my own tentative conclusion that he did in fact exist. If he were a pure invention, they would have made him more perfect, like a hero in a Greek epic.

Albert Mond · 02-18-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeythorn

I've seen a video about "mormon jesus " that was so badly drawn and animated...like Gullivers Travels on crack. It was THE funniest video of 2008 for me.

I think I saw the same thing. I think it was rather well drawn and animated, though.

Drake Dun · 02-18-2009, 10:20 AM

If it's the one I've seen, please be careful with it. It was made by some other Christians who had a bone to pick with Mormonism. Take it in the vein of Zeitgeist - it includes some correct assertions and interesting leads for your own research, but also much shakier claims and some outright falsehoods.

Not that Mormonism doesn't contain just as much nonsense as the next religion. I just think it's important to keep your various types of nonsense correctly sorted.

Albert Mond · 02-18-2009, 10:30 AM

Yeah. I was thinking of mentioning that.

Despanan · 02-18-2009, 12:25 PM

Check out All About the Mormons? in season seven.

"Joseph Smith was Called a Prophet Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb!"

Mealla · 02-18-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by honeythorn

I've seen a video about "mormon jesus " that was so badly drawn and animated...like Gullivers Travels on crack. It was THE funniest video of 2008 for me.

This one perhaps?

Despanan · 02-18-2009, 07:58 PM

That sorta does have a Zeitgeist feel to it...except it was better put together.

Heavy-metal style animation ftw!

Mir · 02-19-2009, 01:16 AM

I think all religion related threads should be in the Rant section, because they don't accomplish anything, and are essentially just rants.

honeythorn · 02-19-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mealla

This one perhaps?

AHAHAHAHAAAAA! Yes that's the one. The AFI boards had an absolute riot with it ( many atheists on there so they had a field day ) I couldn't give a toss about mormonism to be honest. I just found the video hilarious what with it's endless celestial sex and mormon Jesus ect.