Pro-Obama Thugs... - Page 2

Delkaetre · 08-11-2009, 07:32 AM

You know, it's nice not to live in America. We in the UK have our socialised healthcare already. We also have easier travel to other parts of the world, and due to the location and fertility of our country it is actually possible to feed most of the population without having to import food. We have enough diversity of crops not to be wiped out the way parts of America would if something affected their grain harvests.

All we have to deal with are the BNP, Tories and Labour, and we mostly just ignore them and get on with our lives anyway. The BNP are pretty funny, actually. They think they're real people, poor little things.

We don't really have or need guns on any kind of scale, and our coastline is such that we could produce enough wave and wind power for a pretty hefty chunk of the country if we needed to, so wars for oil are mostly just an old and hopefully dying habit of previous generations.

We're in less debt than America, our housing market is recovering beautifully from the crash already, most of society (barring a few, mostly BNP, nutjobs) couldn't care less about what your race or sexual orientation is, and we have low rates of infant mortality.

This has nothing much to do with the specific content of the thread, I just thought I'd gloat a bit since Deadman's in such a tizzy and it's nice showing the effective superiority of other countries to such conspiracy theorists. In most sensible measures, the UK is doing better- sure, it's not nearly as big, and we probably won't be able to have cool Mad Max style stuff when Deadman's proposed Vague But Horrible Fate afflicts the world, but that's okay. We'll just sip our cider, see our friends, get on with life.

Deadman, why not take your cue from the UK? Stop being paranoid, stop hoarding firearms, stop preaching the evil that dwells within the souls of mankind, stop assuming that everyone will become ravening maniacs if America gets a bit less conservative, stop fearing that the CIA/KGB/Illuminati/EvilCorp is controlling the world and going to kill all upstanding Americans for Reasons Still Unknown. Just get on with life. Vote for socialised healthcare, it's pretty good stuff. Your paranoia's not educating anyone, but may be isolating from you from a world that's actually pretty cool. Try it. Seriously, it's nice.

I should add- our police do leave a lot to be desired. But aside from actions on protests and a failure to follow up **** cases, they're getting good at staying out of the way. And the problems we have with them are *still* nothing compared to some examples from America's finest.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 08-11-2009, 05:13 PM

This is not and If I have my way it will never be like the U.K.

Delkaetre · 08-11-2009, 07:35 PM

You're okay with a totally unsustainable economy based largely on imported oil and a constant war with one or other nations, a lack of country wide renewable resources, high chances of serious food shortages, and a nearly third world infant mortality rate as well as ridiculously high STD and teen pregnancy rates?

Well... okay. If you want, sure. I can't understand why (and I've tried), but okay.

viscus · 08-11-2009, 07:54 PM

That was incredibly arrogant-sounding, Delkaetre.

Renatus · 08-11-2009, 07:55 PM

The one thing you mentioned that I disagree with in the UK is the gun laws. It's bad enough that the army has flame throwers and we dont(RIP George Carlin), if they take away out guns then we'll be completely fucked if we have to go against our government. Not to mention the fact that people who have guns illegally will still have guns and they're the ones who usually cause the problems with guns. Also here in Wisconsin deer hunting has become a necessity, especially to keep Chronic Wasting disease in check (it is a nasty deer std), untill the preditor population here in Wisconsin rises and Chronic wasting disease is history the deer NEED Wisconsinites to hunt them.

viscus · 08-11-2009, 08:24 PM

Notions of European superiority aside, the goons sent out across America by the health care industry to incite riots at town hall meetings are now playing the victims? That's rich.

Saya · 08-11-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renatus

The one thing you mentioned that I disagree with in the UK is the gun laws. It's bad enough that the army has flame throwers and we dont(RIP George Carlin)

Actually the opposite is true, the flame thrower hasn't been in the American military arsenal since 1978. Some states have restrictions but they aren't banned from private ownership federally. So while the military has bombs (why not trust civilians with bombs? Bad enough the army has bombs and we don't) and machine guns, you can light them on fire and kill them horrifically if there's a revolution.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-11-2009, 09:30 PM

So, I saw the video and read the article Sola mentions in that video.
You got an old guy who genuinely cares about his son, but just as the senator couldn't name the specific amendment in which cerebral palsy is treated (why wouldn't cerebral palsy be treated), Sola himself never says where he got the idea that handicapped and old people will die under Obama.

Yep, totally justifies Deadman's bullshit about a civil war.

CptSternn · 08-11-2009, 11:42 PM

Duane -

I resent that. At least I haven't gone over the top and started buying into people like Alex Jones.

Delkaetre -

Thats pretty much the argument I make all the time. One thing to remember, this is much like trying to deal with a heroin addict who doesn't want to quit. Until thy hit rock bottom, they don't want anyone to tell them what to do. America has an addiction to oil/food/bling and only when the economy totally bottoms out will they realise what is important, like socialised medicine.

Whats ironic is many of the old people who currently are fighting the socialisation of health care will find themselves out in the cold figuratively speaking in a few years because their private health care plans will become either affordable or they will drop them due to budget constraints. But again, like a heroin addict they never see the forest for the trees.

It's just sad so many will have to sink so low before they cop on sure.

Delkaetre · 08-12-2009, 07:38 AM

Viscus- yes, I do realise that it sounded arrogant. But, well... I keep reading deadman's dubious excuse for logic, and I keep seeing the way certain sections of the American public are reacting (including the widespread proliferation of slander and lies about the NHS), and I cannot help but feel glad that I'm not that wilfully ignorant.

I do realise that I don't have a greater value than any other living human as an individual, and that displaying wilful arrogance will win no friends or favours. But, well. When faced with deadman and after a day of reading some of the utter lies spouted by the right, I just don't care. It's really hard *not* to feel superior.

Some of the lies on offer - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ublican-health

A rebuttal to many claims being made by the Right - http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...39&topic=15445

The anti-logic of Kenneth Gladney - http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/10/gladney-uninsured/

Deadmanwalking_05 · 08-12-2009, 07:39 AM

Jill,It's the fact that this has been going on at Town Hall meetings all across the country.

Constituents being ignored by their elected officials.

viscus · 08-12-2009, 07:52 AM

No, elected officials are being shouted down by industry-backed goons, and prevented from starting any sort of intelligent discourse whatsoever. What side of reality do you live on?

Deadmanwalking_05 · 08-13-2009, 07:58 AM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cancer-s...peaks-out.html

Check this out and get back to me.

Easy to say that all the way over in Japan isn't it?

viscus · 08-13-2009, 09:40 AM

Okay...so that's supposed to be representative of what's going on at every such meeting?

Raptor · 08-13-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Check this out and get back to me.

A woman was rude and used her phone during a meeting, didn't apologise for doing so, but did speak to the person she ignored afterward.

As Jillian said, in the other video that guy doesn't say why he thinks handicapped people will die under Obama.

And you think there's going to be a civil war based on that?

vindicatedxjin · 08-13-2009, 10:25 AM

This is getting so out of hand.

viscus · 08-13-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

Check this out and get back to me.

And before you ask, here's some reading to suggest that I'm not pulling this talk about industry FUD out of my ass:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...UpperPromoArea
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...081301914.html
http://www.livingstondaily.com/artic...+health+debate

You might try Google News sometime instead of getting all of your information from Prison Planet.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 08-13-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by viscus

And before you ask, here's some reading to suggest that I'm not pulling this talk about industry FUD out of my ass:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...UpperPromoArea
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...081301914.html
http://www.livingstondaily.com/artic...+health+debate

You might try Google News sometime instead of getting all of your information from Prison Planet.

I was trying to show others what it would be like if their lives were left in the hands of elected officials.

The Survivor went through something that took old John Wayne out and drops people all over the world,and the insensitive cunt just couldn't put the phone on silent or ignore it could she?

So what I'm trying to get across to you is the fact that if that had been a life or death decision and had to be given the okay by a Government Bureaucrat the person really needing to talk would be ignored.

Would any of you trust their fucking heath care system after that example of the Government not giving a shit?

Not me thank you.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-13-2009, 12:46 PM

Why did you prefer the insurance companies and hospitals not giving a shit?

Deadmanwalking_05 · 08-13-2009, 03:33 PM

Well don't you think it would be better if the care was left in the hands of the Patients (Most Of whom are going through a personal hell) and the Doctors (Who are seeing it all break down in front of them and know what to do).

Saya · 08-13-2009, 03:43 PM

Thats whats done with socialized health care. Doctors don't say "hang on, gotta call our Member of Parliament to make sure this is okay." You just flash your MCP card and you get treatment right away. No one is involved except the patient and the doctor.

Deadmanwalking_05 · 08-13-2009, 04:00 PM

I still don't trust the government to decide which plan would best fit me in a time of need.

Saya · 08-13-2009, 04:53 PM

They don't. If you need anything, they give it to you. The only thing we really have to pay for here is cosmetic surgery, dental and vision (but a lot of jobs here now cover that, as well as a lot of schools) and prescriptions, unless the drugs were given to you in the hospital or if you can't afford it but do really need it.

Everyone gets what they need, no one has a tailored plan based on their medical history or whatever.

Godslayer Jillian · 08-13-2009, 05:53 PM

69 percent of Americans think it is the responsibility of the federal government to provide health coverage to all U.S. citizens (Gallup Poll, 2006)

64 percent of Americans would pay higher taxes to guarantee health care for all U.S. citizens (CNN Opinion Research Poll, May 2007)

I guess Deadman doesn't care about THAT part of the American people. No; the government doesn't pay attention to HIS kind of people, therefore it's evil.

viscus · 08-13-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadmanwalking_05

I still don't trust the government to decide which plan would best fit me in a time of need.

So you prefer insurance company accountants, whose job it is to find a way to fuck you over in order to protect the company's shareholders?

The situation is this: 47 million Americans have no health coverage, and several are being denied or priced out of what they thought was good insurance due to them coming down with a debilitating illness or injury. The health care industry itself swallows up 1/6th of the GDP, with administrative costs accounting for 25% of what you pay when you go to the hospital and the most exorbitant prescription drug prices in the world.

The cost of nothing nothing here is definitely not zero.