fat bashing and body acceptance

[Pineapple_Juice]

I recently got a bunch of shit on tumblr for saying that being morbidly obese is unhealthy. I got labeled a plethora of isms and ists, but the most prevalent accusation thrown at me was "fat basher".

I don't think you have to be a certain size or shape to be beautiful. I don't think it's right to give fat people shit for being fat. I don't think fat people should only wear certain things, or try to downplay their fatness. I think fat people have every right to love themselves for what they are, not despite what they are. But i also think being grossly obese is not healthy, in the same way that being 60 pounds is unhealthy.

The conversation started when someone posted an ad about pet obesity and said something to the effect of "fuck this normative earth". Like vets only want your pet to be thin because they want it to look more sexy or something.

I consider myself body positive. Am i really a fat basher for thinking obesity is unhealthy?

[JCC]

I had body dysmorphia and starved myself for months and exercised like crazy, I still fat-bash. Fuck em, they can't catch me.

[MissCheyenne]

You're not a 'fat basher', fuck them and their stupidity. They are in denial, being obese IS unhealthy for people and animals alike. There's no perfect, universal weight that people should aspire to be but being obese is unhealthy, there's no two ways about it. People are beautiful in all shapes and sizes but when they are at a size that puts their health at risk, it's no longer beautiful.

[Saya]

No, I don't think you are. I think saying "being morbidly obese isn't healthy" is worlds away from saying "being morbidly obese is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself."

When its a person, they have their own life and autonomy, I don't get into people's faces every time I see someone doing something unhealthy, and being obese is no exception to that. With pets, however, you are their caretaker, and you should do what you can to ensure they are being healthy. Although its not fair to always assume its the owner if you don't know what the circumstances are.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Saya, that's pretty much what i said. I would never make an issue out of someone's fatness, but to blow off a vet saying your pet needs to lose weight because you want to make a point about body acceptance borders on abuse.

[JCC]

The people who moan about fat-bashing are the same ones who say there shouldn't be models less than a size 10, 'real women have curves', etc. etc. I was a fat person for most of my life and I know the fat person mentality and they seriously just bitch and bitch like 'blah blah she has no tits' 'blah blah she looks like a boy' 'blah blah they aren't real women', it's just a cycle of self-loathing projected on to others. Most fat people who say they're happy aren't, and the ones who are don't mouth off about it all the time.

[Still Jack]

Thing is. I get labelled a "fat basher" and "body idealist" because I don't find excessively overweight people attractive. And then they say "But Jack, beauty comes in all shapes and sizes!" To which I have to retort "Beauty is an opinion , dickhead. You can find yourself beautiful, but you can't say 'I am beautiful' as if it's a fact. Because it just fucking isn't . It's an abstract concept." I don't generally give a shit what people look like. But I get pissed off when people use an opinion as a fact. This happens far too much with body image.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by JCC

The people who moan about fat-bashing are the same ones who say there shouldn't be models less than a size 10, 'real women have curves', etc. etc. I was a fat person for most of my life and I know the fat person mentality and they seriously just bitch and bitch like 'blah blah she has no tits' 'blah blah she looks like a boy' 'blah blah they aren't real women', it's just a cycle of self-loathing projected on to others. Most fat people who say they're happy aren't, and the ones who are don't mouth off about it all the time.

I wouldn't say so, I do think fat phobia exists and I find it disgusting. I also know lots of people who are okay with all body shapes and take offense to fat bashing, when PETA did the Save The Whales shit I recall a really awesome blogger who did a "Kiss My Fat Vegetarian Ass" protest, and she did none of those things.

I think the "they aren't happy" thing isn't necessarily true either, if thinness wasn't so idealized you have to wonder if they'd be unhappy, and I do think its possible to have a body that isn't idealized and still be happy, even though you get shit for it. I'm happy with armpit hair but I realize not many people would find that attractive, and its a balancing act to love my body and not care what other people think.

That said I do run into a lot of "real women have curves", which drive me nuts, and everything you said, its divisive and solves nothing.

I think we can agree that sizeism exists, but disagree on how we combat it. Its like prejudice against people with mental health issues or even abelist issues, you know? Mental illness is often dismissed, that's bad! But I don't think I'm a bad person for using the word "crazy" to insult someone.

[honeythorn]

The mis-use of the term curvy annoys me hugely. Curvy does have a fairly easily spotted definition and appearance on a woman. It usually involves having little noticeable excess body fat (rolls and mounds ) and a flat stomach, as well as being reasonably toned and healthy in general.

To use a well known image of what this looks like, Think of Jennifer Lopez, Or Kelly Brook. Both on the smaller end of a UK size 12, both in good proportion and no excess flab, flat stomachs. Neither of them are athletes, they simply take care of themselves.

What really bugs me is overweight or even obese women claiming to be curvy. NO you are not curvy just because you dip in at the waist.

If you're overhanging or wobbling out everywhere else, have a muffin top and so on, then you are simply overweight and untoned. I automatically correct anyone who calls me curvy. It may be their opinion but their use of the term is incorrect nonetheless, as I do not physically fit the definition/image .

This would probably be considered fat bashing but I really don't much care. I seriously don't think fat people should be proud or accepting of being fat, or unfit or overweight/obese . It's abnormal for the body to carry too much excess fat , and it isn't something that should be put up with, least of all by the one who suffers it. It's their health on the line if nothing else.

Obviously there are many overweight people who have health problems that prevent them from doing much exercise, or restricts their diet due to medication or allergies ect. These people have little choice, the ones who simply gorge themselves do have the choice to change, yet they simply can't be arsed in many cases. I find that pretty horrid.

JCC is correct in saying that most fat people who claim to not care, or that they are happy, have a slow metabolism ( actually it's faster ) or claim to be curvy, are NOT happy.

These are the ones who sign up every January at the gym, go for a couple of weeks and then give up after having one takeaway, thinking they've eaten one high calorie food so they've broken their diet and should therefore give up .

Those are the same people who hiss at normal sized women behind their backs, calling them twigs and sticks, saying they're not "real" women, and that they must be anorexic to stay so slim ect. All they are doing is venting at their own failure. They sit on the sofa at the weekends chobbling biscuits and Ben & Jerry's, vowing to themselves to start the diet on monday, while trying to make themselves believe that they are "curvy" and "real" and that the size 16 average is normal and therefore fine to stick with .


I just don't think that's anything to be proud of at all.

[Alan]

Clearly they were just talking bullshit when you were talking about morbid obesity.

But let's talk about this as a whole social concept. Just as you dislike morbid obesity and they suddenly call you a "fat-basher" which includes a dislike of any overweight person, it's very easy for us to say that we're just against obesity but in reality we're also including overweight people and categorizing them as obese when they're not.



So come clean, you people. Are you guys really just concerned about obesity, or are you saying it in the same way a racist would say that they don't 'really' mind minorities but the statistics show that they're more prone to violence?




Personally I do tend to be a 'fattist', let's call it. I know some people are overweight because of legitimate biological reasons but even knowing that it still irks me.
Probably my two only conservative aspects are this, and an emphasis on wanting my children to be genetically mine.

[Saya]

I'm thinking of the clinical term mobidly obese. I don't think being overweight necessarily means unhealthy at all, and being underweight all of my life I know I got away with being an abnormal weight because it was considered beautiful, if I had gone the other way it would have been shameful.

My sister is technically overweight but she's built like a tank, I'm sure I've referred to her as an Amazon here before. It does break my heart that she thinks there's something wrong with her because she weighs a lot more than other women her height, but she is extremely fit and strong. And yet she'd rather be thin and weak like me, its fucked up.

[Pineapple_Juice]

But thats what i mean. I don't dislike obesity in the slightest. I couldnt care less. I don't think less of a person for their size.

As an example, i'm going to use smoking. When i see someone smoking, it does not offend me. I don't think less of the smoker in any way. However, i still know that smoking is unhealthy. Dont care that they smoke and i dont preach to them about it. A smoker isnt less attractive to me because of ther habit. Does this mean i am a smoke basher for recognizing that smoking is bad for your health?


Like alan said, i understand the difference between being fat amd being obese, and i agree that fat people arent necessarily all unhealthy but obesity is, in itself, a health problem. It feels like a lung cancer patient saying not all lung cancer patients have diseased lungs, or trying to compare lung cancer with asthma.

[honeythorn]

Sorry but carrying excess fat and generally being overweight is unhealthy. Just not so much as being morbidly obese, and it's rather easier to rectify before it goes too far and becomes morbid obesity.

Being overweight is a different matter however. And it's what makes the BMI scale so utterly shit.

EXAMPLE : You can take two people who both weight 14 stone (196lbs) . One overeats, does little proper exercise and has a high body fat percentage .

The other goes to the Gym regularly and has a decent body of muscle and a low body fat percentage.

The BMI scale, and a weighing scale giving the results from both people, would have society class both of them as being overweight and therefore both must by default be fat and unhealthy. But clearly not.

[Saya]

Depends on how we define "excessive", and body fat doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. It is often a symptom of poor nutrition and sedentary life styles, and that is far more concerning over whether someone has a muffin top.

Even skinny people accused of having "excessive" body fat. I got called fat before because I don't have a flat stomach, and my IBS causes me to bloat something fierce sometimes. In my identities and difference course we looked at advertising for gyms, in which one said "If I didn't excercise, I'd still be thin, but flabby."

And as you age, having excessive body fat is actually a good idea, according to my roommate who's worked in a nursing home. Its better for older people to be overweight than underweight.

[JCC]

Skinny people can have excessive body fat, I have to some degree. It's less than when I was actually fat but I could do with being firmer. It's about your body fat percentage rather than your frame. I lack muscle.

[Saya]

Thing is, that isn't going to give you diabetes. Obesity as a clinical term is when you're overweight to the point where it is a concern to your health, before that its not a huge concern, and I wouldn't really compare it to being a smoker.

[Pineapple_Juice]

I was just tryin to make a general example. I know it's not the same thing.

[Renatus]

How can people mistake morbid obesity for anything short of unhealthy? It has morbid in the name FFS. What do they have to name it before people realize it's unhealthy? I don't suppose you can link to where this happened pineapple?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Saya

Thing is, that isn't going to give you diabetes. Obesity as a clinical term is when you're overweight to the point where it is a concern to your health, before that its not a huge concern, and I wouldn't really compare it to being a smoker.

It won't give me diabetes but why not be in better shape than I am?

[Saya]

If you want to, but its nothing bad or anything to be ashamed of. Personally I'm aware that the ideal is that everything is tight and flat, and the perception is that you're disciplined and under control. If not, even skinny people can be "fat" or "wiggly" (thats what the ad said! Couldn't remember earlier). So, I'm personally okay with my little belly for the most part, can't say I wouldn't mind magically waking up with a nice toned stomach but I don't care enough to work for it.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Saya

I'm happy with armpit hair but I realize not many people would find that attractive, and its a balancing act to love my body and not care what other people think.

Oh, Saya, I love and respect your hairy pits.

My sister is technically overweight but she's built like a tank, I'm sure I've referred to her as an Amazon here before. It does break my heart that she thinks there's something wrong with her because she weighs a lot more than other women her height, but she is extremely fit and strong. And yet she'd rather be thin and weak like me, its fucked up.

The impressions our societies make on our minds causes most of us to be fucked up, it operates on some pretty fucked up ideas, especially in areas of gender (though I assume anyone as well-versed in fat-bashing issues like yourself already knows).

As far as fatism/etc goes, I have to say this is an issue that I feel doesn't get enough attention. I've tried explaining the very concept of fat-bashing and why it's bad to people, and a lot of people really don't get it. Like I've said before, the majority of people in our society want to believe the world is fair, and anything bad that comes to you is in some way divine justice. If you're poor, that's your own fault for being lazy. If you're fat, then get off the couch and eat less bon bons you ugly fat fatty fat fat Mcfat fatty fat. Maybe I've just been around some of the wrong people, but an awful lot of people I've talked to have an eerie lack of sympathy for overweight people, to the point where some of them feel like someone losing a hand or whatever to diabetes is in some way justified. It's all their fault for being a fat fatty fat fat.

I feel like this attitude is a major problem.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Saya

Depends on how we define "excessive", and body fat doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. It is often a symptom of poor nutrition and sedentary life styles, and that is far more concerning over whether someone has a muffin top.

I heard recently - I think it was through WHO that there are predictions that in the west there will be a lot of folks who are obsese+ who will be malnourished, because of their crap diets.

Originally Posted by Saya

And as you age, having excessive body fat is actually a good idea, according to my roommate who's worked in a nursing home. Its better for older people to be overweight than underweight.

It's actually better for older people to be fit and active rather than worried about their weight.

[Grausamkeit]

Originally Posted by Alan

Clearly they were just talking bullshit when you were talking about morbid obesity.

But let's talk about this as a whole social concept. Just as you dislike morbid obesity and they suddenly call you a "fat-basher" which includes a dislike of any overweight person, it's very easy for us to say that we're just against obesity but in reality we're also including overweight people and categorizing them as obese when they're not.

So come clean, you people. Are you guys really just concerned about obesity, or are you saying it in the same way a racist would say that they don't 'really' mind minorities but the statistics show that they're more prone to violence?

Personally I do tend to be a 'fattist', let's call it. I know some people are overweight because of legitimate biological reasons but even knowing that it still irks me.
Probably my two only conservative aspects are this, and an emphasis on wanting my children to be genetically mine.

Being fat is unhealthy, period. People already know that. I grew up around a bunch of fat women constantly telling me, "This is your fate! One day, when you become an adult, you're gonna look just like us so you might as well get used to it!" The only people in my family who haven't gotten fat are me and two of my cousins. Out of a family of 30-40 people, that's sad. I live in fear of actually gaining a significant amount of weight one day. I was damn proud of the fact that when I was pregnant I only gained the recommended 25-30lbs and lost it rather quickly post-baby.

I don't consider myself a 'fattist' or 'fat basher', I just want the insecure people who are overweight to shut the hell up about how people who exercise and eat right are 'too skinny' or that thin women 'look like boys'. When I was a size 3 it was because I was extremely active. I didn't undereat or vomit after meals. But I was always being accused of smoking crack, doing coke, having an eating disorder by most of the overweight people in my life. The 'looks like a little boy' insult always hurt and they knew it. Not all overweight people do that, but at one time I felt like I lived in a world of fat vs. skinny.

I don't base my opinion on people from their weight. I don't believe in that 'first impression' nonsense, either; it has a tendency to be wrong. If I think someone is worthless as a human being that opinion will be based on personal interaction and observation of their behavior, not what they wear, listen to or what they weigh.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Fruitbat

Oh, Saya, I love and respect your hairy pits.



The impressions our societies make on our minds causes most of us to be fucked up, it operates on some pretty fucked up ideas, especially in areas of gender (though I assume anyone as well-versed in fat-bashing issues like yourself already knows).

As far as fatism/etc goes, I have to say this is an issue that I feel doesn't get enough attention. I've tried explaining the very concept of fat-bashing and why it's bad to people, and a lot of people really don't get it. Like I've said before, the majority of people in our society want to believe the world is fair, and anything bad that comes to you is in some way divine justice. If you're poor, that's your own fault for being lazy. If you're fat, then get off the couch and eat less bon bons you ugly fat fatty fat fat Mcfat fatty fat. Maybe I've just been around some of the wrong people, but an awful lot of people I've talked to have an eerie lack of sympathy for overweight people, to the point where some of them feel like someone losing a hand or whatever to diabetes is in some way justified. It's all their fault for being a fat fatty fat fat.

I feel like this attitude is a major problem.

I think poverty and weight issues go hand in hand, actually. In cultures where being overweight is attractive, its because it shows your affluence, you earn enough to have some weight on you. Thinness traditionally has been a sign of poverty, or in the case of religious anorexia (think fasting), with piety. In our culture its the reverse, those who live in poverty have limited access to healthy foods, whether because of cost or by availability, for example out home, you'd have to drive a long way to find a grocery store that sells much produce, our little stores had canned and frozen foods, ground and salt beef, and bananas and apples. Even when you get out to the city, a lot of students I knew could only afford shit like Mr. Noodles and Kraft Dinner (it was on the news years ago that students here were getting scurvy from eating mostly just Kraft Dinner. Scurvy!).

It's actually better for older people to be fit and active rather than worried about their weight.

I can't recall her exact reasoning but I think its "just in case something happens" concern, like my grandfather lost a ton of weight while in the hospital, and struggled to put it back on. So it was probably better for him to have had a bit of a gut than thin before he got sick.

[Grausamkeit]

I think it would be worse for older people to have excess weight. My grandmother kept falling and couldn't get back up because of how much she weighed. The last time she fell, she never got out of the hospital.

I think fit and active is a lot better for people, regardless of age.