Born a Goth or Made a Goth?.....

[illuminatti]

i think that someone is BORN with a potential ability to become a goth. But if that person becomes a goth or not depends the person's life.
I personally way born a freak and "evolved" in the gothic direction, but it took some time before I actually BECAME a goth.

[OnixxFilth]

Exactly, illuminatti. Seems like most of us are thinking in the same direction here! :lol:

[ragdoll_misfit]

I think from birth one might have tendancies that tend to be different from the "normal" way a child might think, but i don't know if that means that just because they grow up different that they are a goth. I think that something might trigger it spured off of these ideas to make them become goth. There are people I know that have always had a dark mind, but others have been the "bright and cheerful" and have changed, never suddenly, but as in a gradual process. i really think it depends on the person and mindset.

[OnixxFilth]

I think that perhaps my Asperger's Syndrome predisposed me to thinking in a different way than most children. I always had the sense of being on the outside of things looking in and that I was some kind of alien that just happened to look like a human.

[Patricia]

There's an odd little trait amongst goths. Not sure if anyone has noticed it but me.

No matter what she's wearing, no matter what music is pouring from her car, no matter what situation she finds herself in, you can always peg a goth.

I spend my days in uniform with my tattoos covered, my hair conservative, and my cosmetics toned down. The only outward inidication of something amiss is the inverted pentagram ring on the middle finger of my right hand.

Yet somehow, people know. My conversation isn't morbid, I "sir" and "ma'am" with the best of them, but people know from day one. Perhaps they mightn't have chosen "goth," but the phermonal (why not?) sense of "the other" crept in. In my experience, it's like that with most goths, with the ones who "get it."

By "getting it," I mean that goth is ike the Tao - you can't put it into words, but when it clicks inside your head the echo will resound through your soul forever. You can't teach goth, only a set of cosmetic, costuming, and hairstyling skills. You can't explain goth, because there's no way to explain the inexplicable. If you are goth, there is no need to wonder if you are goth, because you realize that there is no measurment for the level of your goth because the goth simply is (yeah). Within the subculture, there is FAR to much deviation and individuality to attach an overall philisophical outlook to the scene as a whole.

I don't know that I was necessarily born goth, but I do remember seminal events. Daddy had me watching "Alien" and other grimsies at three. He used to pull over when we saw roadkill and tell me stories about how Sammy the Squirrel just didn't run fast enough that day. He didn't want me to be afraid of death, but he never limited my imagination by trying to explain an afterlife either.

As an only child of non-religious parents, I was free to pursue my own interests from the very beginning. I don't recall being especially morbid, but look at the landscape of childhood for a moment: even santized fairy tales are grim, Disney can be downright scary, every story has to have a villain - if we look around, "darkness" has surrounded us from day one.

Now the grim side is something parents don't want fracturing the innocence of their little ones, so they try to protect us. When you tell a child "no," that only makes the forbidden so much more tempting. So between my overprotective mother and strangly permissive father, I struck a balance.

When I was eight years old, I was sitting in a restaurant with my father. We lived in a very conservative area, and you don't see as much in that kind of environment.

The door swung open and in walked two goth couples. I remember one of the girls - Bettie Page hair, dark lips, velvet dress, hat, parasol, gloves, so incredibly elegant with a big bright smile. She didn't care if anyone looked, she didn't care what anyone thought, and she was so clearly happy and at home in her own skin. I remember staring at her and thinking, "That's who I want to be when I grow up."

Later she walked past my table and smiled.

For me, that was it. I didn't start dressing up until about my freshman year in high school, but the inclination blossomed back when I was but a wee thing. I had never even heard of "goth" until I was about fourteen or fifteen, and even then I wasn't interested. I had this bizarre romantic tattered dark gypsy thing going one, and of course I thought myself so utterly unique (again, the conservative suburbs.)

If someone wants a general one-off affiliation that is a nice summary, I say that I'm goth. If pressed for details, it's more of a bohemian outlook a la Moulin Rouge - very Truth, Beauty, Freedom, and Love. In my opinion, those four words eclipse the heart and soul of the ideal of goth. They are the things that we strive for, perhaps even the ideals that we epitomize. "The beautiful creatures of the underworld," and all that.

While it's hard to imagine such high flown ideals in the head of an infant, I think that, at the very least, freedom is the one ideal for which every human at any age strives. Nations have been made and broken upon a vision of freedom and thousands have died for it. Yet even in our supposedly "free" country (America), we still struggle under an opressive regime of "normalizing." For an enormous proportion of American society, ostracizing the outsider is part of what we do and how we are. From wiping out indiginous people (which goes all the way back to Cro-Magnan vs. Neanderthal) to good old McCarthyism in the 1950s, conforming has always been the ideal.

Some people don't conform. We fall under a lot of convenient labels, but none of them sum up what we actually are. I think that we exist in a landscape of tiny revolutions, and every refusal to compromise the self is a triumph. However, I also feel that these refusals must be made consciously, as opposed to a gut check knee jerk reaction. No one likes to be told what to do, but with maturity comes the ability to evaluate what you're being told. Rebelling for the sake of rebellion only gets you so far.

So we are all born with tendancies that could be considered gothic (under the freedom leading to pursuit of truth-beauty-love tenant), but some of us refuse to have that spark stifled more ferociously than others. Some of us have experiences - whether negative or positive - that reinforce the dogma of looking beyond the outer trapping of the world to see what really lies beneath. Beauty in structure is often the comprehension of the bones.

So maybe some of us are born to be made into goths.

In any case, Viva la Revolution.

Patricia

[Panther]

I always felt different, too. And, even though I went t o a catholic school, wher eht uniform allowed no bit of personality to show through, I was treated much differnetly, too.

I remember being little and wanting tattoos, and green hair. I'd read abotu Polaris (An X-man with bright green hair down to her waist), and I knew that I wanted to look like that.

I never really decided to dress in a more morebid fasihon, but in high school (public, this time). I started to shift away from tye dyed semi-hippie, to using more bold colors, adn incorportaing a lot of black.

Eventually I saw that I sort of fit the goth stereotype better than any others, and that seemed to eb how others saw me. But I'd never really had an immersion in the subculture, beside watching Beetlejuice and once accidentally watching a Marilyn Manson video. I guess joining this board was the first thing I did to purposly be labeled as a goth.

[OnixxFilth]

First things first, I wouldn't claim that Marilyn Manson is goth, if I were you. Some people might just jump on your for that. Not me, necessarily. He does certainly have a goth aesthetic and kind of a goth philosophy/look going on, though.

[Panther]

*shrug* He's perceived as being goth by the outside world. That's all that mattered at the time.

[MrMaelstrom]

It was in the music forum, but it probably got deleted.

I really don't want to go through that again, but it will be a question of time 'till a newb comes up with it again, so I guess we should probably start it off on the right foot while we have the chance.

Any volunteers?

[DreamsInBlack]

Originally Posted by SuicideJade

i was born with a goth mentality, but i wasn't allowed to dress the part until i became an adult..

Same here, it was all purple and butterflies till I moved out. Le sigh.

[OnixxFilth]

Sometimes I'll really dress up in a kind of "elegant goth" outfit (long skirt, boots, corset top), but most of the time I too just wear jeans and a t-shirt. I feel kind of out of place because from what I've seen I'm most likely the only girl on campus who wears any visible makeup and/or colored lipstick. I like standing out, though- the staff tells me repeatedly that I'm a "breath of fresh air" for my unusual clothes!

[OnixxFilth]

Viterbo University- private Catholic college, hehe! It suits me, because until high school I went to small private schools and it's nice to have small classes so you can actually have some discussions and such. The library is really pretty and peaceful, and is where I do basically all my emailing and such.

[OnixxFilth]

Yeah, I can relate to the small grade scenario- that's what it was like in elementary school and junior high for me! I like small classes because then you can get personal attention from the professor and they get to actually know you personally.

[winged_dreams]

Originally Posted by Xnguela

Purple is beautiful!

Actually, my tattoo design that I posted in the picture thread is of a purple butterfly... funny that you chose that combination!

Don't worry too much about how you look-- I go to school sans makeup, in jeans & a t-shirt, and I usually don't brush my hair... I have no one to impress.

And everyone here (almost) thinks i'm awesome!

I think you're awesome. And on the subject of clothes, I wear whatever I feel comfortable in and whatever the hell I feel like wearing.

[Panther]

Originally Posted by Xnguela

Purple is beautiful!

Actually, my tattoo design that I posted in the picture thread is of a purple butterfly... funny that you chose that combination!

Don't worry too much about how you look-- I go to school sans makeup, in jeans & a t-shirt, and I usually don't brush my hair... I have no one to impress.

And everyone here (almost) thinks i'm awesome!

The true measure of gothness is not how black your clothes are, nor how perfect your eyeliner, but how tainted your heart and mind.

[OnixxFilth]

Exactly, Panther!

[ms444]

Made a goth by my 1st serious g/f, been a Goyh ever since :evil:

[TeapotScar]

Originally Posted by ms444

Made a goth by my 1st serious g/f, been a Goyh ever since :evil:

"1st serious g/f"?
I'm guessing you're about 13, now, so you you were how old for this oh-so-serious relationship? 8? :roll:

I'm glad you not only stayed in a relationship with somebody who tried to change you, but you willingly succumbed under the pressure. Bravo. Your individuality is a model for us all.

[Solumina]

Tea I love you

[OnixxFilth]

Oh yay, woohoo. I bet you became a goth just because your girlfriend (yes, girlfriend, not g/f) was one. Never use those pathetic abbreviations on here. They will get you nowhere but ridiculed. This isn't AOL. And kindly use complete sentences.

[winged_dreams]

I love you tea! I think I should leave all the flaming for other members. They're so good at it compared to me.

[TeapotScar]

Originally Posted by Solumina

Tea I love you

Aw! I heart you, too. :oops:

[Solumina]

Great idea. So who else wants to join?

[TeapotScar]

*...and the room falls silent...*

But you guys are too much! So cute! Man, when I joined gothic way back in the day, I had no idea I'd be meeting such freakishly awesome people here. And so fuckable, too! Goddamn- you guys have it all.

[Solumina]

hehehehe thanks tea