Ohio asshat wants women to get a permission slip to have an abortion.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Tumor

Is your position really so weak that you have to demand a method on bringing his idea to fruition rather than discussing the merits of his idea?

You realize what he's saying is the equivalent of
"Oh, but if we don't go to war how will we defend our freedoms? I don't agree with the KILLING part, but I agree with defending our freedoms."

That's bullshit. His opinion of a "legal say" cannot be divorced with the imposition of the man's opinion overt the woman's body.
My position is fucking consistent: talk with the woman - DO NOT let a man impose his preferences on a woman's body.

What the fuck is the merit of saying "there needs to be something done" without saying WHAT you want done. Your post to me is idiotic and only pissy on the fact that I'm arguing against you both.

[Tumor]

Originally Posted by Saya

Its only gender biased because only women can get pregnant. If men were capable of it I'd still say its his choice and not the mother's, how hard is that to fucking understand? So really, whats your problem with the statement "Only the pregnant woman should be able to choose to abort or to carry"?

Only a woman can get pregnant, but only a man can produce the sperm cells without which women wouldn't be able to get pregnant. So should it be gender-biased the other way? No, of course. Such bias shouldn't even exist, even concerning such a debate.

How? I'm saying that if we get rid of child support altogether now kids will starve, so we need a system in place where those kids can be taken care of.

Yes, you keep saying that, and it keeps not being true. Allowing a man to opt out of financial responsibilty if he was opposed to the abortion in the first place is not going to cause kids to starve. If they were going to starve, chances are, they'd starve regardless. And if they do starve, it's not always because of lack of money and/or social services that provide food for infants and children, but, usually, because of parental neglect.

Fuck your thick.

That's rich, coming from you, after being told time and time again by BtS himself what his views are, followed by you turning around and consistently saying that he's saying something different.

It still has everything to do with the OP, and even if he said something else equally stupid that had nothing to do with the OP I'd call him on his bullshit. Whats your problem?

And you call me thick. Whatevr. If you want to believe that a comment from the end of an argument is the cause of that very same argument, go right ahead.

I ask you then, what does child support have to do with abortion? In arguing about it, are you trying to make a case that men should be able to force women to abort? This started because BtS argued that a woman in labor can't imagine the pain of paying child support, that women get off easy compared to what a man has to go through, so its nothing to force a woman to carry to term. I called him on that bullshit, what more do you want to argue?

Going back to look at the specific comment, it seemed fairly obvious that it was a sarcastic comment. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'll wait for clarification before I say anything further on this.

[Tumor]

Originally Posted by Solumina

We all fucking AGREE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD TALK BEFORE A DECISION IS REACHED and that the man SHOULD VOICE HIS OPINION. We are simply saying that there is no way to legally guarantee that the man will be able to give his opinion without giving him veto power.

That doesn't mean that it's not a good concept.

In a perfect world I would be more than happy to remove the man's responsibility to pay child support if he is in favor of having the child aborted but I know that there are a lot of men who would simply say that they wanted an abortion in order to avoid child support, a better system needs to be put in place before something like that would be feasible.

Of course there's always room for improvement.

[Tumor]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

You realize what he's saying is the equivalent of
"Oh, but if we don't go to war how will we defend our freedoms? I don't agree with the KILLING part, but I agree with defending our freedoms."

Are you sure that that's what he's saying? Or are you seeing something that's not there?

That's bullshit. His opinion of a "legal say" cannot be divorced with the imposition of the man's opinion overt the woman's body.

Only because the two concepts are not intrinsically interconnected.

My position is fucking consistent: talk with the woman - DO NOT let a man impose his preferences on a woman's body.

Well, then, his position is just as consistent, as it has been the same the entire time. On top of that, his position is the same as yours. So if the two of you are saying the same exact thing, why are you arguing?

What the fuck is the merit of saying "there needs to be something done" without saying WHAT you want done.

That's a completely irrelevant comment since he's not saying "there needs to be something done," but rather "I think this would be a good idea."

[Godslayer Jillian]

OH, so he's saying "I think this would be a good idea." but you also believe "his position is the same as yours"

That's fucking bullshit. It's a blatant and obvious lie. If he thinks "this would be a good idea" then he believes it is ok for a woman to need permission to have an abortion.
What part are you not understanding?

[Tumor]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

OH, so he's saying "I think this would be a good idea." but you also believe "his position is the same as yours"

That's fucking bullshit.

You are both saying that both parties should discuss the matter. Neither or you is suggesting that the man has control over the woman. The two quotes may not be perfect parallels, but they are definitely not so dissimilar as to invoke such a response from you.

It's a blatant and obvious lie. If he thinks "this would be a good idea" then he believes it is ok for a woman to need permission to have an abortion.

The only lies I'm seeing at this moment are the ones you just typed.

What part are you not understanding?

The part about how you see something that isn't even there and continue to argue it as truth in spite of blantant proof to the contrary.

[Godslayer Jillian]

So what you're saying is that we agree in everything except in his idea of a "legal say" but I'm not allowed to ask that because I'll look weak?

Just shut the fuck up and let BTS answer how the fuck he wants a "legal say"

[Tumor]

Do you see everything through a fractured lens? I never presumed to tell you what you can or cannot do.

But perhaps I will shut up, now. Through-out this debate you've met any opinion that is even slightly different than your own with hostility, misrepresentation, and blatant lies. And it seems to me that you will continue to do so. I see little reason to continue arguing with someone as dishonest as yourself.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Any? As in only one that refuses to answer my question?
That's hardly the end of all possible solutions.
Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself.

[Beneath the Shadows]

I don't answer your question because I believe it's a loaded question. I think that no matter what I say, you will try to find something wrong with it, even if it's not there, in order to continue attempting to invalidate my opinion, or further derail the topic. Or both.

My opinion on what I think constitutes a good idea does not require a method to make that idea happen.

If you don't like, tough shit.

[Godslayer Jillian]

So you just choose to just avoid anything constructive. That way you only have to look morally superior and hope that people won't notice you're accepting man's imposition on woman before you would allow a woman to have freedom over her own body.

That's grand.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Oh, right, because "anything constructive" is what you're looking for. Bull-fucking-shit. If you were, you wouldn't continue claiming that I'm supporting or accepting something that I'm not.

You're an intellectually dishonest hypocrite. If you can step back for a moment and then continue this debate objectively without the need to resort to such petty bullshittery, then I'll be happy to continue in the same way. But if you're not willing to do that, then fuck off.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Being insulting does not make me a hypocrite. It's hilarious that while I call you a fucking idiot, you recur to more judgmental name-calling, such as that, that I'm somehow a hypocrite for no apparent reason. But really; it's no argument at all.

And yes; I indeed look for "anything constructive" because it sickens me that (and you fucking admitted this yourself) you support this bill solely for the reason that while you 'disagree with the permission thing' it does give a 'legal say' to a man.
You would rather care for his preferences than for her own choices. That's inexcusable. What's worse is that you refuse to tell me how the fuck you would divorce this two, much in the same way that Catch says she won't back up her opinions.

[Beneath the Shadows]

There's that intellectual dishonesty again. I've said straight out that I don't support this bill, but you continue to insist otherwise. You fucking lying piece of shit.

[alyroi360]

I think you guys are letting this go to your heads a little TOO much. Take a chill.

[Beneath the Shadows]

I'll "chill" as soon as people stop lying about things I've said.

[Saya]

Then how the fuck would a man have a legal say without compromising a woman's choice? Its impossible and therefore idiotic to argue for it.

[alyroi360]

Shadow, all you say is that "everyone's lying, everyone's lying, WAH!" get over it. It's not that big of a deal.

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by alyroi360

Shadow, all you say is that "everyone's lying, everyone's lying, WAH!" get over it. It's not that big of a deal.

Saya and Jillian have caused a huge argument because they don't like my opinion. That's even less of a big deal. Maybe they need to get over it.

[alyroi360]

Then there's no need to persue the point. If they don't like it, don't try to convince them it's good.

[Beneath the Shadows]

I wasn't. I was only defending my position.

But maybe you're right. This has gone on long enough. Anyone reading through the topic objectively will see my arguments, and then their interpretations of my arguments, and they will know that they don't match up.

Good riddance, I suppose.

[alyroi360]

cool way to look at it shadow, I'm glad that you see it that way.

[Saya]

Hahaha, how about defending your position by saying what you mean by "having a legal say" without compromising a woman's right to chose? Its still impossible and the burden of proof is with you, not us and our "interpretations". All you've been arguing is anything but this magical legal right that you keep telling us about without saying what it is.

[alyroi360]

I'm staying out of this. I already posted something on it earlier if you'd like to read that. I'm done.

[Tumor]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Any? As in only one that refuses to answer my question?

So, you've been in agreement with me the whole time?