Satanist Teens *sigh* - Page 9

bunnicula · 03-20-2006, 12:41 AM

Wow. Good summary.

Sobeh · 03-20-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunnicula

Wow. Good summary.

Don't feed the comparative religion grad student.

bunnicula · 03-20-2006, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sobeh

Not Muslim, but it's wrong whether I am or not. The split was due to political differences:

Shi'i Muslims think that Umar and Uthman and the other appointed rulers (Kalifah, whence 'Caliph') were authentic, and that this tradition of lineage is the valid one.

While there are Shi'i and Sunni clerics, there isn't the animosity between them theologically as there is between the various denominations of Xianity - the differences are much more markedly political. Also, whereas Christians from certain denominations are officially not supposed to take the Eucharist from certain other denominations, because of debate over the authenticity of the priestly lineage, no such barrier exist between Muslims of different stripes.

I have heard that explanation before,and I am sure that is technically right. But...I was thinking about the philosophical differences between the groups. Is the "satanic verses" explanation purely ficiton, or is it based on the actual beliefs of the different groups of Muslims?

Sobeh · 03-20-2006, 12:54 AM

As far as I know, the Wikipedia Entry on this is an accurate one; my specialties lie in other directions, and I cannot address this depth of specificity.

However, as I mentioned, when Uthman collected the Qu'ran and the official version was thus put into existence (this version of events is disputed by many Western historians) this kind of thing became a non-issue for the entire Ummah, before the Sunni-Shi'i split had been formalized. Historically events may be different, but without a knowledge of Arabic and access to the scrolls, all we're going to get is hearsay from scholars who, however smart, cannot agree.

Good times!

bunnicula · 03-20-2006, 01:18 AM

History. Bah! Who knows? As far as I'm concerned, the past's just as uncertain as the future. Events are always interpreted through the filter of a particular point of perception, so there are no real "facts," no "Truth."

but that's an entirely different thread.

OnixxFilth · 03-20-2006, 08:11 AM

Exactly, psychopenguin. Although I have to disagree with you on the Catholic school thing. Maybe it's just because I was only in Catholic school in elementary school, but I think Lutheran schools are far worse, especially those belonging to the WELS denomination. In 4-8th grade, it was one of those schools that basically told me everything I liked was wrong and evil and that only WELS Lutherans were going to heaven. To this day, I still have psychological problems resulting from the spiritual abuse I suffered at the hands of the teachers and pastors.

psychopenguin · 03-20-2006, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnixxFilth

Exactly, psychopenguin. Although I have to disagree with you on the Catholic school thing. Maybe it's just because I was only in Catholic school in elementary school, but I think Lutheran schools are far worse, especially those belonging to the WELS denomination. In 4-8th grade, it was one of those schools that basically told me everything I liked was wrong and evil and that only WELS Lutherans were going to heaven. To this day, I still have psychological problems resulting from the spiritual abuse I suffered at the hands of the teachers and pastors.

I went to a Catholic school from Kindergarten through 6th grade. I hated it. I still do. I have vowed that no child of mine shall ever go to one. I never experienced Lutheran schools so I can't say Catholic is any worse or better. I still wouldn't recommend either.

I must agree with Sobeh on one thing however. The academic standards of Catholic schools compared to those of public schools are much higher thus the education received is better. However, my social developement greatly lacked by attending the school I did because I wasn't one of the "popular" kids. I was one of those kids that had baby fat until the age of 15. I sucked at sports which also added to the amunition for torment.

Basic summary: Parochial (sp?) schools have better education but systems/children/parents that are far more cruel and can hinder the developement of children who do not fit in.

OnixxFilth · 03-21-2006, 11:03 AM

I still have to disagree. I don't think my education was better- in fact, it was worse. I arrived at high school knowing nothing about drawing in persepective, little geometry, no opportunities to learn a foreign language...my private schools' idea of art class was to make a card for your mom for mother's day or something- even in 8th grade! That's why I'm never sending my kids to a private school of any sort, parochial or not.

OnixxFilth · 03-21-2006, 11:16 AM

My brother went to a sort of school like that for awhile called SOTA (school of technology and arts) and also came out the same way as me, which is why he switched into the mainstream school that SOTA was housed in.

OnixxFilth · 03-22-2006, 10:11 AM

That's true. I haven't been turned off all men, although I like to joke about becoming a lesbian when I'm having problems with one.

Psi · 03-22-2006, 02:43 PM

I don't feel like reading through all posts in this thread, but I can tell you what I'm going to say is correct - (ex-psuedo-satanist)

They believe Satan is not a deity - when they are saying "Hail Satan!" they are basicly saying "Hail me!"

Second of all, In Satanism (unless you are in ONA or some shit), they frown upon "sacrafices" and ect. You can actually be kicked out of the Church of Satan for sacraficing small animals and ect.

Second of all - "Satan" and "The Devil" are two way different things. Lavey, himself, said he named the religion Satanism because "It sounded cool".

Third, sure, they say Fuck God. They don't believe in worshipping a deity. All the kiddies that go around shouting "666! HAIL SATAN!" and other things, are not real satanists.

Anyway, just trying to get the record straight for some people - I hate when people talk about Satanists wrong, even though I am not one.

OnixxFilth · 03-23-2006, 11:25 AM

Oh yes, Psi, I understand you completely. I have done extensive research into LaVeyan Satanism for a class project several semesters ago. Satanism is essentially hedonism, at least that's how I understand it.

OnixxFilth · 03-23-2006, 11:30 AM

I hate when people talk about any religion wrong, whether it's Islam, Christianity, or what have you. It shows an incredible lack of intelligence and an extreme willingness to judge without knowing the full story.

succubus,queenofvampires · 03-23-2006, 12:33 PM

Yeah, I agree with both, Onix and Xng. Nobody should ever diss another religion especially if they don't know anything about it.
I hate it that people who are craving for attention most of the time start claiming that they are Satanists and " really dark".

psychopenguin · 03-25-2006, 07:34 PM

To Xnguela I don't discredit all parochial schools. Just the one I attended. Personally, though, I'd rather send my future children to a public school until they of an age to choose as well as understand that it doesn't matter what others say. Granted the same thing that happened to me in my private school has a possibility of happeneing to them in a public school but I'll hop that fence when I get there.
To Psi I was a Satanist for a number of years. What you said is absolutely correct. Satanism is about self-worship per se. There is no deity except yourself. However, you can call apon "demons" -which are similar to the saints of Christianity though they stand for other things- to aid you in magickal workings or every day life (the Catholics do the same in prayers and the like). It's a very insightful, independant, and self empowering religion. People who disrespect any form of belief, even atheism(sp?), are very ignorant in my view.

4mytribe · 03-26-2006, 10:15 PM

I grew up in a Mexican hard core christian cult church. Our motto was "Beans and rice and Jesus Christ". It was difficult and alot of teens ran away from it including me. There are many ideas out there that make people put themselves in boxes and then they isolate from friends, family, truth and on and on. Satanism is one like many other extremes like the cult that my family was riped apart from. It is sad but thats what ideas do when you dont question them and everyone will preasure you if you question. My Mom paid the biggest price. She lost both her children and her youth and chance at a mate at a decent age. She is not happy about alot of that but as for me I wish that it didnt happen but wonder if I would be better or worse for it. I know this that cults like the one my family was in is a negative.

I still have conflicts about so much regarding that part of my life but in the end we have to go on.

Mood · 03-27-2006, 02:23 AM

Satanism...a pathetic justification for people who claim to not need one.

And Catholicism may not be so liberal, but that's what makes the sex so kinky. Opression plays a very sadomasochistic role in a lot of people's lives, and haters just don't understand that.

4mytribe · 03-27-2006, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mood

Satanism...a pathetic justification for people who claim to not need one.

And Catholicism may not be so liberal, but that's what makes the sex so kinky. Opression plays a very sadomasochistic role in a lot of people's lives, and haters just don't understand that.

And We'll all get that after we wake up tomorrow - or maybe thats just me - Im toast - this is really it man Im done

but still I have to say in my toasted state that what she said doesnt make sense right now

toasted

Marcus danis

WolfMoon · 03-27-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mood

Satanism...a pathetic justification for people who claim to not need one.

And Catholicism may not be so liberal, but that's what makes the sex so kinky. Opression plays a very sadomasochistic role in a lot of people's lives, and haters just don't understand that.

Guess it doesn't really matter how much you sin, if you're catholic. You can just say some hail mary's and all's well.

Hypocrite.

end.of.eternity · 03-27-2006, 09:10 AM

Muslims just simply don't know a word "humour" ...oh well. I guess it was so EEeevil and cruel and rude of people joking of their precious Mohammed like THAT badly (hey, come on, those Danes really didn't make it that big) and they have their real right to get pissed of.
...Please.

I mean. People joke about Christianity everyday, but do Christians burn and blow up places? No. If muslims got to know of a band which blasphemed their religion even a little, they'd make sure of that band being done dead immediately. But christians never did anything to black metal.

So. My point is, they were a little overacting.

end.of.eternity · 03-27-2006, 09:12 AM

...and the post was meant for the previous chat about Mohammed.

OnixxFilth · 03-27-2006, 09:28 AM

Yeah, that's one thing I always found weird about Catholicism (I'm a former Catholic)- that you call upon these people who supposedly "lived perfect lives"-but are still just people, not gods- to help you in your daily life.

WolfMoon · 03-27-2006, 10:46 AM

I always thought it was weird that the bible says to have no idols, but catholics always have little figurines every where.

WTF?

*Not raggin' on catholics, just find it weird.

OnixxFilth · 03-27-2006, 10:53 AM

Hmm, I think that statues of saints aren't meant to be worshipped, just a visual reminder of "those people who are watching over us." For some reason, I'm fond of statues of the Virgin Mary, perhaps because Catholicism reminds me of my childhood, a time when things were a lot simpler.

bunnicula · 03-27-2006, 11:40 AM

Speaking of saints....I had one of those weird synchronicity moments the other day that included a reference to saints. Here goes:

(to my classmate at grad school during coffee break)
Me: I'm doing some reading about Celtic mythological figures and how the Irish Catholic Church incorporated the gods and goddesses into the religion, renaming them as "saints."

Classmate: Oh, interesting. I went to Ireland recently and felt a strong spiritual connection. I later found out that I am actually Irish. I always thought I was German.

Me: I have heard about other indiginous religions that get incorporated into Christianity or Catholicism and their gods and goddesses become "saints."

(I went to the coffee stand, and decided to get tea instead. It was one of those 'yogi tea' brand tea bags that have the little sayings on the paper tag that hangs over your teacup. I opened the bag and the saying written on the paper was "God lives in the gathering of saints.")

That sent chills down my spine.